Vfacts october 2012

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

With FG being over 4 years old now they should have a fair amount of the original R & D repaid which makes me think at $28,990 for an ecoboost they should be able to break even. The sad part is however the I6 is probably cheaper then the Ecoboost!!!

Either way I'm sick of them gutsing XR6 for $32,990 and still wanting $37,990 for XT's!!! its ridiculous! XT has to be cheaper to manufacture then XR6!!

What would be the point of a $28,000 Falcon?
Cutting another $8,000 off an already discounted Falcon would require building maybe five times as many cars.
What happens then is that everyone else benefits except Ford stuck with making a heap more cars for no extra profit.

A better plan would be to build Mondeo hatch locally with imported 2.5 I-4 and Auto or manual gearboxes via Ford North America.
I see that as a great way to offer the Aussie buyers a Camry alternative without sacrificing Falcon in the name of a sub $30K vehicle.


Does anyone have sales figures for Utes?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What would be the point of a $28,000 Falcon?
Cutting another $8,000 off an already discounted Falcon would require building maybe five times as many cars.
What happens then is that everyone else benefits except Ford stuck with making a heap more cars for no extra profit.

A better plan would be to build Mondeo hatch locally with imported 2.5 I-4 and Auto or manual gearboxes via Ford North America.
I see that as a great way to offer the Aussie buyers a Camry alternative without sacrificing Falcon in the name of a sub $30K vehicle.


Does anyone have sales figures for Utes?

Or they could just build the Ranger here and be the best seller...

[XR Martin]

Im not convinced that there was a huge private rush on the Camry. I suspect the rental companies got a good deal that month...

[Brazen]

1994 base Corolla $22,670
2012 base Corolla $19,990

1994 base Falcon $26,232
2012 base Falcon $37,235

It is not size, fuel economy or features which is seeing large cars fall. It is simply the price which are making these family cars more and more irrelevant.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Brazen

1994 base Corolla $22,670
2012 base Corolla $19,990

1994 base Falcon $26,232
2012 base Falcon $37,235

It is not size, fuel economy or features which is seeing large cars fall. It is simply the price which are making these family cars more and more irrelevant.

That's the problem with building in Australia. Our wages have gone up heaps since 1994 so its not possible for them to sell an XT at 26k. Probably should be a bit cheaper than 37k though.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

That's the problem with building in Australia. Our wages have gone up heaps since 1994 so its not possible for them to sell an XT at 26k. Probably should be a bit cheaper than 37k though.

Wages are only a small part of vehicle manufacturing, and Australia is cheaper than Japan where the Corolla is built.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

That's the problem with building in Australia. Our wages have gone up heaps since 1994 so its not possible for them to sell an XT at 26k. Probably should be a bit cheaper than 37k though.

Its more a case of only making a fraction of what they used to which pushes up costs per unit by a significant amount. Things like wages, electricity, water, gas, pollution requirements, workplace safety costs, training costs etc. While these have greatly increased, the number of cars has greatly decreased, so each one of those cars carries a significantly higher % of those costs.

Not to mention stuff like alloy wheels, electric drivers seat, cd, 6 airbags, dsc, climate control, painted bumpers and mirrors etc, plus all the other electric gadgets unheard of in 94 are standard now. Most of that stuff was only available on the Ghia back in 94.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Brazen

1994 base Corolla $22,670
2012 base Corolla $19,990

1994 base Falcon $26,232
2012 base Falcon $37,235

It is not size, fuel economy or features which is seeing large cars fall. It is simply the price which are making these family cars more and more irrelevant.

That is amazing re the corolla pricing............

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

1994 base Corolla $22,670
2012 base Corolla $19,990

1994 base Falcon $26,232
2012 base Falcon $37,235

It is not size, fuel economy or features which is seeing large cars fall. It is simply the price which are making these family cars more and more irrelevant.

I don't think that Falcon price is correct, I actually bought an EF GLi new in 2005, well a demonstrator with $1,500 XR6 wheels,
After $4,700 discount, the price was $29,900 drive away....

The XR6 was going to be close on $36,000 + ORC.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I don't think that Falcon price is correct, I actually bought an EF GLi new in 2005, well a demonstrator with $1,500 XR6 wheels,
After $4,700 discount, the price was $29,900 drive away...

Where was it hidden for 10 years

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Where was it hidden for 10 years

D'OH, the brain is going...I meant 1995....


On topic,
pretty impressed that Ford managed to increase combined saled by around 21% compared to October Last year,
looks like the imports are again stepping up and filling in the gaps for Ford Australia, good signs with Focus numbers..

Although Ford’s Falcon continued to flounder last month – down another 12.6 per cent to 1391 units – Ford recovered sales momentum through its imports to regain third place on the sales charts, with 8379 sales – a rise of 21 per cent over October 2011.

[Auslandau]

EcoBoost - Driveaway new $31,000 advertised in the Sun on Friday. I think that's very fair considering whats out there? You might be able to negotiate a little bit on that and $29,999 (under 30k) might be possible.

Dont forget though, these are not marketed as a Falcon 'XT'. They are a Falcon EcoBoost (If that is any better?). With climate control etc, they are a good bit of kit.

Even though going Off Topic .... again .... just saying that complaining about the price could be a moot point really as 37k is not really reality if you were seriously looking.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I don't think that Falcon price is correct, I actually bought an EF GLi new in 2005, well a demonstrator with $1,500 XR6 wheels,
After $4,700 discount, the price was $29,900 drive away....

The XR6 was going to be close on $36,000 + ORC.

That's about right. My Futura was $36,990 plus onroads, and that was nearly fifteen years ago. Adjusted for inflation, that's over 40k. Are people paying 40+ thousand for a G6/XR6? And yet, the Falcon sold in huge numbers back then, despite the cost. You got nothing for your money really.

[Road_Warrior]

According to Ford's website the XT I6 is now from $41,415 drive away :-|

[XR Martin]

And Corolla is $28k on the road if you want auto and any other colour than white.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

1994 base Corolla $22,670
2012 base Corolla $19,990

1994 base Falcon $26,232
2012 base Falcon $37,235

It is not size, fuel economy or features which is seeing large cars fall. It is simply the price which are making these family cars more and more irrelevant.

Not sure on that. you have the perception by the general muppet public that big cars are costly to run... just wait til their trendy turbo diesel ***** itself out of warranty. A Corollas spec sheet is pretty much in line with an XR6/SV6 as far as features go.
Fleet hack Camry aside, people dont want sedans these days, whether its in the small, mid size class or large. I can't remember the last time I saw a new Corolla sedan or Golf (Jetta), Mazda 3 or 6 (if they still offer sedans on the market?), Subaru Liberty. Breakdown of sales figures might prove me wrong. Maxima and V6 Accord sales have dived worse than Falcon and Commodre. Honda added the Accord Euro wagon to its line up, Ford the Mondeo, Hyundai added their tacky wagon eyesores which sheep flock to, BMW, Audi, Skoda filled a niche market of sedan cum hatch with the A7, 5 series gt, x6. These days people want hatches/wagons or SUVs just like their neighbours.
Its a bugger, I've done many miles in SV6 and XR6 rentals, there is no better all round car (for the $$) for covering long distances.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

EcoBoost - Driveaway new $31,000 advertised in the Sun on Friday. I think that's very fair considering whats out there? You might be able to negotiate a little bit on that and $29,999 (under 30k) might be possible.

Dont forget though, these are not marketed as a Falcon 'XT'. They are a Falcon EcoBoost (If that is any better?). With climate control etc, they are a good bit of kit.

Even though going Off Topic .... again .... just saying that complaining about the price could be a moot point really as 37k is not really reality if you were seriously looking.

With a little bit of haggling you can get a 2012 FG2 G6E Ecoboost with demo kms (5,000) on it for $30k driveaway. That is ridiculous considering the retail on one of those is $46,735 + onroads. That's about $20k off a car with 5,000kms on it.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Nic85

With a little bit of haggling you can get a 2012 FG2 G6E Ecoboost with demo kms (5,000) on it for $30k driveaway.

Yeah, but who really wants a DEMO, bleach! almost second hand.

Originally Posted by Brazen

Which really confirms what I have been thinking for a while - the larger cars are not suffering due to size, they are suffering due to pricing being dramatically higher than smaller cars.

interesting point. how much more does a 'bigger' car cost. assuming the same electronics, drive train, etc. there's not a huge amount of 'metal' from the bigger body.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Yeah, but who really wants a DEMO, bleach! almost second hand.


interesting point. how much more does a 'bigger' car cost. assuming the same electronics, drive train, etc. there's not a huge amount of 'metal' from the bigger body.

Apparently build costs are not much more than a small car. Back in the 90s you were stupid not to pay the small premium for the large car, now you are probably stupid if you pay the 90% premium over the small.

But bear in mind, nowadays in Australia, government handouts are not structured around production volume, rather they are given on Research & Development - so you are in some ways better off keeping the price artificially high and volume small as the government handouts mean you are getting more $ per car. Ford is probably the biggest user of the system, receiving hundreds of millions for vehicles they dont advertise or price accordingly. And of course the less you make the more you can convince you need the money when next round of funding comes.

The loser of course are the component makers, dealers, service departments and ultimately the taxpayer.

[csv8]

In 2007 my BF Mk 2 Ghia was $42,263 before on roads and accessories....

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by csv8

In 2007 my BF Mk 2 Ghia was $42,263 before on roads and accessories....

My AUII Fairmont was in the mid to late 30s which was around the price of a Camry CSX

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Apparently build costs are not much more than a small car. Back in the 90s you were stupid not to pay the small premium for the large car, now you are probably stupid if you pay the 90% premium over the small.

But bear in mind, nowadays in Australia, government handouts are not structured around production volume, rather they are given on Research & Development - so you are in some ways better off keeping the price artificially high and volume small as the government handouts mean you are getting more $ per car. Ford is probably the biggest user of the system, receiving hundreds of millions for vehicles they dont advertise or price accordingly. And of course the less you make the more you can convince you need the money when next round of funding comes.

The loser of course are the component makers, dealers, service departments and ultimately the taxpayer.

do you seriously believe half the dribble you post??

would you be happier if ford sold falcons for $30k but with better volume even if the end result (bottom line) was the same? volume doesn't automatically mean everything is jim dandy, and conversely, lower volumes don't automatically mean things are paddleless in an excrement stream either.


if you compare the prices of aussie cars now, taking into account inflation, they are cheaper than they have ever been and packed with features right from the base model.

apart from 2 months (storm in jan, easter shutdown in april) falcon has been very steady this year in sales, arresting the slide. the media say they are still on the slide because they compare to 12months ago, not the previous month. falcon seems to have found its level for now and much to the haters disgust, it looks like it might even have a future. unfortunately for the sheep, its much harder to talk something up. all so much easier to tear down and jump on the bandwagon.

no wagon, no lwb, no marketing, no advertising, too dear.... baaa baaa baaa.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by prydey

would it make sense if ford sold falcons for $30k but with better volume even if the end result (bottom line) was the same? volume doesn't automatically mean everything is going well, and conversely, lower volumes don't automatically mean things are going down hill.

if you compare the prices of aussie cars now, taking into account inflation, they are cheaper than they have ever been and packed with features right from the base model.

apart from 2 months (storm in jan, easter shutdown in april) falcon has been very steady this year in sales, arresting the slide. the media say they are still on the slide because they compare to 12months ago, not the previous month. falcon seems to have found its level for now and it looks like it might even have a future.

blah blah.

Above modified, minus the dribble. Pull your head in champ. Just because some opinions differ to yours, doesn't mean they deserve your "haters" ranting.

FOA must be loving the increased sales, but pulling their hair out with the import supply issues. I still am amased the Hilux is selling the amounts it is!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by prydey

if you compare the prices of aussie cars now, taking into account inflation, they are cheaper than they have ever been and packed with features right from the base model.

Brazen, does make a pretty good point with price when comparing Corolla vs Falcon & 2012 vs 1994!! If you say that Falcon (after taking into account inflation) is now cheaper than ever, then the price of a corolla is a complete STEAL. Yes I know there are 110 different reasons why the 2 prices are what they are. But I think it is a pretty interesting comparison if you ask me, & one I’m starting to buy into.

[tweeked]

I think everyone is ignoring the Aussie dollar over that period of time, that is a huge part of why imports can be 30% cheaper without any difference in the actual homeland costs to build

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by prydey

do you seriously believe half the dribble you post??

would you be happier if ford sold falcons for $30k but with better volume even if the end result (bottom line) was the same? volume doesn't automatically mean everything is jim dandy, and conversely, lower volumes don't automatically mean things are paddleless in an excrement stream either.


if you compare the prices of aussie cars now, taking into account inflation, they are cheaper than they have ever been and packed with features right from the base model.

apart from 2 months (storm in jan, easter shutdown in april) falcon has been very steady this year in sales, arresting the slide. the media say they are still on the slide because they compare to 12months ago, not the previous month. falcon seems to have found its level for now and much to the haters disgust, it looks like it might even have a future. unfortunately for the sheep, its much harder to talk something up. all so much easier to tear down and jump on the bandwagon.

no wagon, no lwb, no marketing, no advertising, too dear.... baaa baaa baaa.

Sad part is they are selling them for 30kay... they just dont advertise them for that, its all the bonus' and stuff they have to pay back to the dealers after the end of the month.

Volume is good for a few reasons especially when you take all the fixed overhead into consideration, and peoples employment. I am sure theres a few Ford employees that could do with some overtime coming up to Christmas, but you're too arrogant to take that into consideration.

What we say on here is meaningless anyhow. It all comes down to what the yank wants.

[XR Martin]

Have people forgotten that in 1994 the Corolla was still made here?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I think everyone is ignoring the Aussie dollar over that period of time, that is a huge part of why imports can be 30% cheaper without any difference in the actual homeland costs to build

not to mention tariffs. its hilarious that some think its ok to have the only govt in the world that doesn't protect its own auto industry.

Originally Posted by Grunter

Pull your head in champ

how silly of me to try to be positive about the falcon on a ford forum.

seriously, i'd buy a ferrari too but they are too dear. what are ferrari thinking. do they realise they could sell heaps more if they sold them for less.....

anyways...

once a month on here, the jokes thread gets outdone for a good laugh.

carry on gents, as you were.

[b0son]

anyone know the model breakdown? is ecoboost picking up?

[Bossxr8]

Prydey- You're the extreme opposite of the haters you love so much. But as equally annoying

You're taking your extreme views way too far.