XR8, a hypothetical - Page 2

tranquilized · 09-02-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

The primary premise is that the GS badge rather than XR8 badge is a significant component as to why whomever has not bought a V8 Falcon.
So far the evidence does not seem to support this.

I dont see much merit in that premise. Its quite obvious that price is the main factor here. The GS is too expensive for what it is. I understand why its the price it is - that $40million they spent cant be recouped through discounted XR8's.

But, from the buyers point of view the GS just doesn't offer value for money. For an XR8 to have any chance it would need to be the same price as the XR6T, like it was in 2003 when the BA was first released.

I'll be buying a new ute mid this year. I'm lucky enough to have access to Ford employee pricing, which (from memory - could be wrong) is 22% off Fords and 12% off FPV, or thereabouts. So for me it works out that a GS is around $16k more expensive than an XR6T. At retail pricing the difference is $13k

Thats a serious amount of money just for a V8...

R-Design · 09-02-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

OR

You don't make one.

Selling a car for a loss is not particularly good business.

Designing one specifically to sell at a loss is just stupid......

Exactly my point, they've dug a massive hole for themselves, and what they're doing now is just not working.

Stefan · 09-02-2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford cannot sell a $55k car for $45k viably so the XR8 will be about the price of a GS.

Nor can it sell a $57K car to guy that only has or is only willing to pay $45K

Ford should not have developed a product if it meant that the end product could not be competitively priced. That is about a fundamental to running a business as it gets.

Why is it that I simply do not see S/C GT or GSs driving around, I see loads of SS-V and HSVs. There has to be something fundamentally wrong, either product or pricing. I'd say it's a little of both.

R-Design · 09-02-2013, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I'll be buying a new ute mid this year. I'm lucky enough to have access to Ford employee pricing, which (from memory - could be wrong) is 22% off Fords and 12% off FPV, or thereabouts. So for me it works out that a GS is around $16k more expensive than an XR6T. At retail pricing the difference is $13k

Thats a serious amount of money just for a V8...

Especially when you factor in the 4-6k premium for the turbo over the NA6. The pricing is absurd.

Brazen · 09-02-2013, 05:05 PM

The Ecoboost Falcon with its imported direct injected turbocharged engine, unique suspension tune, safety testing, unique parts and training and production line changes probably costs Ford as much to manufacture than a XR8. The difference? Ford can only sell Ecoboost for $30,000 while they could get $45,000 for an XR8

MITCHAY · 09-02-2013, 05:13 PM

No I would buy a XR6T. If I want a V8 I'd buy an SS.

The XR8 doesn't exist because realistically not many people want one outside these forums and/or it just aint worth doing.

Then there is a difference between those who want one and those who would throw down on one.

Sprint · 09-02-2013, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Design

Can get a new manual SS for $38k.

this,the price must be matched

fords cars are over priced,all of them.

jpd80 · 09-02-2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The Ecoboost Falcon with its imported direct injected turbocharged engine, unique suspension tune, safety testing, unique parts and training and production line changes probably costs Ford as much to manufacture than a XR8. The difference? Ford can only sell Ecoboost for $30,000 while they could get $45,000 for an XR8

The difference was that the government pitched in $40 million to wards development
of EB, EcoLPI and Diesel Territory. Not forgetting that Prodrive put up the best part of
$40 million for Coyote and recent suspension upgrades..for $20 million, Ford got a
bargain since they probably charged Prodrive for th development work..

Stefan · 09-02-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The XR8 doesn't exist because realistically not many people want one outside these forums and/or it just aint worth doing.

I'd love to know why? I agree anyone that wants a V8 it's an SS or HSV.

Why not a Ford?

Stefan · 09-02-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

this,the price must be matched

Yes unfortunately it does mate.

No point selling something that can be bought for far less down the road.

We're not discussing other Ford products just the XR8 and GS and GT.

flappist · 09-02-2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Design

Can get a new manual SS for $38k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

this,the price must be matched

fords cars are over priced,all of them.

Why don't you revisit these posts next week after the VF is released and see what the CURRENT model will cost you......

9 months ago a bought a shiny new FG2 XR6T ute for less than any SS ute I could find and I got a car that was quicker, cheaper to run, cheaper to register, has better resale retention and has a FORD badge......

burnz · 09-02-2013, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

While in theory this sounds good carsales has several brand new GS sedans for $51,985 drive away ($49,985 ex govt charges) and some demos in the $40ks.

i have to ask.

would HSV use their 6.2L decmpresse it then employ herrods to supercharge it?

or import an LSA/LS9?
to me, FPV seam to wast monie's, nothing againt herrod's they have to put food on the table.

so if the 5.0 was say passed all govco rules, would they have an SS equivelent price car against it?

passing govco test is tax wright off, R/D

Thunder · 09-02-2013, 05:59 PM

In november this year my lease is up. As per my vote on this pole, YES i will buy a FORD XR8 (and you can hold me to it) on the conditions of:

- It's no less spec'd than the XR6 Turbo, with only the addition of the V8 and bonet buldge.
- It competes on performance with the equivalent SS
- Happy to be made to order as long as its delivered in 6 weeks or less
- Colours and options are good and available
- And its cost $50,000 drive away or less.

Assuming its a MY2014 model, and the improved/extra features also.

pottery beige · 09-02-2013, 06:01 PM

Ford Australia no matter what you do.. it will always be wrongs..

yadda yadda da internertz....

burnz · 09-02-2013, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Ford Australia no matter what you do.. it will always be wrongs..

yadda yadda da internertz....

forget the goal post, why bother?

i say

they have a perfect opportunity, run with it!

Joe5619 · 09-02-2013, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The Ecoboost Falcon with its imported direct injected turbocharged engine, unique suspension tune, safety testing, unique parts and training and production line changes probably costs Ford as much to manufacture than a XR8. The difference? Ford can only sell Ecoboost for $30,000 while they could get $45,000 for an XR8

Actualy Ford can charge 50,000 for an Ecoboost in an G6E (or what ever the going rate is for G6E)!!

my_gxl · 09-02-2013, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

I'd love to know why? I agree anyone that wants a V8 it's an SS or HSV.

Why not a Ford?

Exactly.

Holden needed to up the size of the engine to get the power.

5.7L and 6.2L engines, why?

Ford went 5.4L, and now down to 5L again.

I won't vote as I know I won't buy a new car again. Been there, done that, learnt that its a waste of money.

It was a Ford, not the equivilent Holden, as it was a weezy V6. loved my Staight 6 way more.

Love my Ford V8 more.

FPV GTHO · 09-02-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

But, from the buyers point of view the GS just doesn't offer value for money. For an XR8 to have any chance it would need to be the same price as the XR6T, like it was in 2003 when the BA was first released...

XR8 was never the same price as XR6 Turbo until BF2 when Ford slashed the price around $5k to keep sales moving and also match Holden's artificial price drop on VE SS.

Nobody wants to suggest a return to the original FPV XR8 idea. Perhaps for good reason?

mr smith · 09-02-2013, 07:07 PM

I'll be in the market to replace my FGXR6 ute this year, I would go XR8 ute if it is available with the following:

2014 New face lift late 2013
Ace blue colour options - think Nitro, Blueprint etc
S/C Donk - 300kw would be fine to distance from FPV
Premium brake option - dont need to be Brembo
Price - $45K on road would see me through the dealer door.

That said I belive the ute will be dropped or not upgraded with the new face lift - similar to wagon/Panel Van phase out.

comagutsa · 09-02-2013, 07:31 PM

when i brought my XR8 ute i had the choice between the GS and the XR8
GS ute was $52k with bugger all
Xr8 ute cost me $38,500 with leather and a few other extras (brand new ute)
the difference in $ at the time was the deciding factor but in saying that if i had the extra $ to spend at the time (which i did but had other stuff going on) i would of brought the GS because i wanted the supercharger and this would of saved more $ in the log run than modding the 5.4 but you get that

i look at it 5.4L motor if i wanted to keep it stock ..fine, buy a NA motor. but ford dont do this now and most people just want a cheap NA motor add an exhaust and they are happy
but i alway wanted to supercharge and mod a V8 motor which will cost me more than the $12k i saved instead of buying the GS
but a modded and charged 5.4 is just better is some stupid way haha, but if i had a GS i wouldnt be complaining

the XR8 wont make a comeback in NA form

flappist · 09-02-2013, 07:35 PM

This really is going way off topic.

The topic is "Would you buy a $55,000 XR8 instead of a $55,000 GS?".

The answer at this time appears to generally NO which unfortunately is exactly what I suspected....

comagutsa · 09-02-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

This really is going way off topic.

The topic is "Would you buy a $55,000 XR8 instead of a $55,000 GS?".

The answer at this time appears to generally NO which unfortunately is exactly what I suspected....

if they are both the same who really cares if its called a XR8 or a GS

if its sold as a GS and you want a XR8 buy some cheap XR badges and put on it

Brazen · 09-02-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

This really is going way off topic.

The topic is "Would you buy a $55,000 XR8 instead of a $55,000 GS?".

The answer at this time appears to generally NO which unfortunately is exactly what I suspected....

Are you looking at the right poll? Almost three times as many would buy a XR8 over a GS.

Thunder · 09-02-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comagutsa

if they are both the same who really cares if its called a XR8 or a GS

if its sold as a GS and you want a XR8 buy some cheap XR badges and put on it

IMHO: the GS suffers from being the "poor mans" GT where the XR8 could be pitch as the "premium" Ford offering? I know the reasons the XR8 was dropped, but i think it could make a succesful second coming.

flappist · 09-02-2013, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Are you looking at the right poll? Almost three times as many would buy a XR8 over a GS.

Yes I am looking at the poll. It lists the people who voted and I wonder what sort of trade they would get for their BA, AU or E series......

The poll is "who WILL buy" not "who would buy if they could get the money".

Talking the talk is not walking the walk and the only voting that counts in the real world in voting with your wallet.........

jpd80 · 09-02-2013, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes I am looking at the poll. It lists the people who voted and I wonder what sort of trade they would get for their BA, AU or E series......

The poll is "who WILL buy" not "who would buy if they could get the money".

The options I'm looking at in the poll clearly say "would" not "will"
The choices are framed for preferences, not imminent commitment.

Quote:

Yes, I would buy an new XR8 within this year
No, I would buy a GS instead
No, any V8 Falcon I buy will have the letters G & T somewhere in the model designation
No, I prefer the XR6 turbo
No, I would buy a SSV/HSV/300 for that sort of money
No, Falcon is already dead to me

flappist · 09-02-2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The options I'm looking at in the poll clearly say "would" not "will"

True.

The point of it was to see if there was an XR8 option would anyone actually buy one.

If I put up a poll on Aston Martin vs Ferarri vs Lamborghini as to who would buy one it would probably get a similar result.

But even would vs will, if you cannot afford one then there is no point in Ford making one for you is there?

jpd80 · 09-02-2013, 08:35 PM

10-4 that Tony.

For what it's worth Tony, I voted to maintain the Status Quo,
there is no need for Ford to change badges on what is the same car.
The only reason Ford would ever do that would be for a special run of say, 300 collector's item XR8s.

To me, a $40,000 XR8 is counter productive to what Ford wants to achieve,.

SteveJH · 09-02-2013, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes I am looking at the poll. It lists the people who voted and I wonder what sort of trade they would get for their BA, AU or E series......

The poll is "who WILL buy" not "who would buy if they could get the money".

Talking the talk is not walking the walk and the only voting that counts in the real world in voting with your wallet.........

Finance is cheap at the moment Flappist, and just because someone drives an older car doesnt mean they cannot afford a new one. For example I went from an EL Falcon to a 2012 Focus, I didn't trade the Falcon (its sitting on the driveway at the moment).

I could have easily afforded to spend a lot more money, however I made a decision that at my age, my priority needs to be my house deposit. I did however need a new(er) car and came to the conclusion that if I waited until after I bought a house I probably wouldn't be able to afford it.

I did look at a Falcon, but for a car that is going to sit in a car park at work for 80% of its life, drive around town for 15% and probably spend 5% on the highway, I didn't *need* something that big or fuel hungry. (I did put 1000 km on it in the first three days I had it though, oops)

The problem with the falcon isnt its price (its not really any more expensive then the Mondeo), it isnt even the level of technology in the car, its the size of the car.

MITCHAY · 09-02-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes I am looking at the poll. It lists the people who voted and I wonder what sort of trade they would get for their BA, AU or E series......

The poll is "who WILL buy" not "who would buy if they could get the money".

Talking the talk is not walking the walk and the only voting that counts in the real world in voting with your wallet.........

Lol it's a hypothetical poll about a car that does not exist which means you will get people with hypothetical money.

View Poll Results: Would you buy a new XR8?
Yes, I would buy an new XR8 within this year	26	32.91%
No, I would buy a GS instead	9	11.39%
No, any V8 Falcon I buy will have the letters G & T somewhere in the model designation	12	15.19%
No, I prefer the XR6 turbo	23	29.11%
No, I would buy a SSV/HSV/300 for that sort of money	4	5.06%
No, Falcon is already dead to me	5	6.33%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll