Final Commodores for 2017

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Peter Brock did more for Holden's Commodore than any one person has ever done for a single model, mass-produced vehicle, anywhere in the world. General Motors' top US marketing executive - John Rock - said as much back in 1997.

Consider the Commodore was almost unfit for Australia - a small European design placed in the land of large - this was no mean feat.

That he won so many races in one (all legally BTW - cars were indeed weighed back in the Group C days) cemented its popularity.

Any recommendations for reading "The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock" are also largely irrelevant, as John Harvey (who was technically employed by Holden at the time) has subsequently claimed responsibility for largely writing that book.

For Holden to pinch Brock's HDT model names does seem to be a bit opportunistic - given they were working on organising their own HSV operation back in 1986 - well before the polarizer/Director issue hit the headlines.

Hope the current HDT operation and the Brock family are at least being remembered with this current marketing exercise.

In addition to all this good work, Holden had ditched the V8 with the VL - despite the "V8 'til '98" campaign that was held.

The VL floor pressing didn't allow for the V8 to fit properly. GMH were only interested in the Nissan 6 & the Turbo would cover the performance angle.

It was Brock who pressured Holden into letting him shoe-horn a V8 into a VL (whilst racing a VK in '86). They succeeded - by lowering the engine a little, which managed to just squeeze the bellhousing & box into the tunnel (which actually ended up being altered anyway - for more clearance, in late 86 just prior to the V8 release).

Within weeks of the VL V8 release, the VL Group A was in full swing so they could get them homologated for '87. It is also widely known that HDT were developing the sequential-port EFI V8 for racing, that ultimately ended up in a Walky. And ever taken a look at an early Walky bellhousing? You'll find the odd one with HDT still cast into it....

So had PB not pushed the point for a V8, would Holden have ever reintroduced it? That remains to be seen. Perhaps it would have come back in the VN anyway.

But one thing remains factual history - in late 87 and thru '88, Holden were losing money hand over fist on the Nissan drivelines due to the Japanese Yen's massive increase. The only profitable 6's were those with a higher sticker price - basic models, the volume sellers, were killing them. The V8 remained profitable for Holden in all trim levels - hence the advertising push on V8s, and several limited edition V8 specials to push more V8 volume - and thus badly needed profit for Holden.

The V6 was never meant to be in the VN - but the financial pressure was too great, and they rushed it in so they could relieve themselves of the Nissan pain.

Had they not had the V8 to at least claw their way back towards some inkling of black on the balance sheet, perhaps the US might have pulled the plug on the local operation before the VN release?

Remember - Brock pushed for the V8 - which eventually became a saviour for Holden within 18 months - in the same time period when he was on the outer, and still trying to build cars sourced from dealer's stock.

Holden have a lot to thank him for, and so do HSV.....

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

What was the last one named a "Bathurst Special"?

Brock's VL Bathurst info:
http://www.brockcommodores.com/Fact%...vlbathurst.htm

And on the same theme, the VL Mt Panorama: http://www.brockcommodores.com/Fact%...ntpanorama.htm

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

In addition to all this good work, Holden had ditched the V8 with the VL - despite the "V8 'til '98" campaign that was held.

The VL floor pressing didn't allow for the V8 to fit properly. GMH were only interested in the Nissan 6 & the Turbo would cover the performance angle.

It was Brock who pressured Holden into letting him shoe-horn a V8 into a VL (whilst racing a VK in '86). They succeeded - by lowering the engine a little, which managed to just squeeze the bellhousing & box into the tunnel (which actually ended up being altered anyway - for more clearance, in late 86 just prior to the V8 release).

Within weeks of the VL V8 release, the VL Group A was in full swing so they could get them homologated for '87. It is also widely known that HDT were developing the sequential-port EFI V8 for racing, that ultimately ended up in a Walky. And ever taken a look at an early Walky bellhousing? You'll find the odd one with HDT still cast into it....

So had PB not pushed the point for a V8, would Holden have ever reintroduced it? That remains to be seen. Perhaps it would have come back in the VN anyway.

But one thing remains factual history - in late 87 and thru '88, Holden were losing money hand over fist on the Nissan drivelines due to the Japanese Yen's massive increase. The only profitable 6's were those with a higher sticker price - basic models, the volume sellers, were killing them. The V8 remained profitable for Holden in all trim levels - hence the advertising push on V8s, and several limited edition V8 specials to push more V8 volume - and thus badly needed profit for Holden.

The V6 was never meant to be in the VN - but the financial pressure was too great, and they rushed it in so they could relieve themselves of the Nissan pain.

Had they not had the V8 to at least claw their way back towards some inkling of black on the balance sheet, perhaps the US might have pulled the plug on the local operation before the VN release?

Remember - Brock pushed for the V8 - which eventually became a saviour for Holden within 18 months - in the same time period when he was on the outer, and still trying to build cars sourced from dealer's stock.

Holden have a lot to thank him for, and so do HSV.....

Thank you for sharing this it's a shame that so many of these stories are now being told after the demise of local manufacture.

Also explains why the v8 option was 200 bucks...

[FTE]

HEC developed the EFi V8 and worked with Warwick Bryce (Bryce Engineering). HDT ran a R&D for Holden so probably did some reliability test work for them.
If the bellhousing on early Walkinshaws (i never actualy checked mine) had HDT on them it would be because they supplied the first 5 speed manuals to Holden in the early days.

[FTE]

I do remember reading a story in Unique Cars in the very early 2000s of a VK back in the mid 80s testing a twin throttle EFi V8

[FG50T]

Commodorenutt I had no idea the V8 nearly didn't make it into the VL. Do you have an idea of how many were produced in 86 then? I own a 333 pack Dec 86

[commodorenutt]

V8 was released in Oct '86. Only ever seen a handful of October 86 builds (compared to November & December 86 builds) , so it's likely production wasn't in full swing until later in that month.

Total numbers in '86 aren't really available - they didn't keep those sort of stats in a retrievable format. You can definitely say there were at least 500 though - they built the Permanent red VL Group As in '86.

Based on the details I've collected, the splits between 6, turbo & V8, and engine number sequences, I'd suggest about 1200-1500 V8s were completed in '86

As for the bellhousings, the die was altered during Walky production to remove the HDT logo - leaving just a blank pad. Some also had the HDT logo ground/linished off prior to that change, but others escaped. HDT weren't a supplier to Holden after 20/2/1987.

[FTE]

The first walkies were December 87 cars so if any have HDT on the bellhousing it would be from boxes GMHA had purchased before the split.

[commodorenutt]

Holden used the HDT tooling. It wasn't old stock laying around.
Remember that these bellhousings were developed long before the V8 T5 went down a Holden production line in a VL Group A. HDT were offering the T5 (using that bellhousing) for several years prior.

Holden "took back" and I use that term very loosely, a lot of stuff they considered that belonged to them, and a lot more.

Didn't help that early ship-jumpers were knee-deep in it with HSV as well...and were quite happy to put the knife into Brock/HDT in their scramble to cement their new positions.

[FTE]

I still have pictures somewhere of permanent red VL cars being transformed into "88 Group A" cars. They were protos.
Holden taking back anything they paid for is just business.

[naddis01]

Thread name change to final Commodore for 1987?

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Thread name change to final Commodore for 1987?

You can't honestly expect Holden to simply rehash some of the HDT's former model names, without some history being exposed.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by FTE

Holden taking back anything they paid for is just business.

And what about the stuff they didn't pay for?

Like I said:

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

Holden "took back" and I use that term very loosely, a lot of stuff they considered that belonged to them, and a lot more.

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Thread name change to final Commodore for 1987?

Nah like the history of this more than hearing about a sticker pack or some wheels with a red stripe

[XRtowcar]

I put my name down for info just to see what they are offering.

[MITCHAY]

These have been launched now. http://www.holden.com.au/cars/commodore/limited-edition

No extra power but been updated with MRC, brakes, cooling for the track.

[PridenJoy]

If i had the money, i would go and buy one of the final SSV Redlines in the coming months. Manual and in white

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by PridenJoy

If i had the money, i would go and buy one of the final SSV Redlines in the coming months. Manual and in white

Chuck an AU front on it. Might scrub up alright then I suppose.

[saturnine_07]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

These have been launched now. http://www.holden.com.au/cars/commodore/limited-edition

No extra power but been updated with MRC, brakes, cooling for the track.

underwhelming.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

No extra power but been updated with MRC, brakes, cooling for the track.

Thats a lot more than the sticker pack I was expecting.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

These have been launched now. http://www.holden.com.au/cars/commodore/limited-edition

No extra power but been updated with MRC, brakes, cooling for the track.

They could've added a few more air vents to the exterior for that wow factor.

[PridenJoy]

Originally Posted by blackf6

Chuck an AU front on it. Might scrub up alright then I suppose.

Seems to be the craze these days

[bangm001]

Is this the FINAL commodore send off or are they holding out for the bathurst edition that was rumoured? Then once these are sold release the bathurst edition as the final limited runs.. Holdens marketing soo much better than fords.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by PridenJoy

Seems to be the craze these days

image

image

image

I tell you what, the Ferrari looks way better like that.

[Dave R]

The 24 hour track rating is pretty incredible for an Australian car. Otherwise I'm not feeling a sense of occasion with this launch. Perhaps it's because the power output has remained unchanged. Maybe it's my inner caveman, but the sense of occasion Ford built around the Sprint engines is largely what makes them so special in my eyes. This is just a redline with coolers and MRC. Awesome in its own right, without question more capable than a Sprint, but doesn't strike me as something that will be particularly memorable down the road. Regardless, I will slither into my dealer on the weekend and see if I can get one. If they're sold out, I really won't be disappointed. Which itself is a little disappointing. I was expecting more from the last Commodore ever. Maybe I'm being unreasonable.

[vbvbvb088]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

In addition to all this good work, Holden had ditched the V8 with the VL - despite the "V8 'til '98" campaign that was held.

The VL floor pressing didn't allow for the V8 to fit properly. GMH were only interested in the Nissan 6 & the Turbo would cover the performance angle.

It was Brock who pressured Holden into letting him shoe-horn a V8 into a VL (whilst racing a VK in '86). They succeeded - by lowering the engine a little, which managed to just squeeze the bellhousing & box into the tunnel (which actually ended up being altered anyway - for more clearance, in late 86 just prior to the V8 release).

Within weeks of the VL V8 release, the VL Group A was in full swing so they could get them homologated for '87. It is also widely known that HDT were developing the sequential-port EFI V8 for racing, that ultimately ended up in a Walky. And ever taken a look at an early Walky bellhousing? You'll find the odd one with HDT still cast into it....

So had PB not pushed the point for a V8, would Holden have ever reintroduced it? That remains to be seen. Perhaps it would have come back in the VN anyway.

But one thing remains factual history - in late 87 and thru '88, Holden were losing money hand over fist on the Nissan drivelines due to the Japanese Yen's massive increase. The only profitable 6's were those with a higher sticker price - basic models, the volume sellers, were killing them. The V8 remained profitable for Holden in all trim levels - hence the advertising push on V8s, and several limited edition V8 specials to push more V8 volume - and thus badly needed profit for Holden.

The V6 was never meant to be in the VN - but the financial pressure was too great, and they rushed it in so they could relieve themselves of the Nissan pain.

Had they not had the V8 to at least claw their way back towards some inkling of black on the balance sheet, perhaps the US might have pulled the plug on the local operation before the VN release?

Remember - Brock pushed for the V8 - which eventually became a saviour for Holden within 18 months - in the same time period when he was on the outer, and still trying to build cars sourced from dealer's stock.

Holden have a lot to thank him for, and so do HSV.....

Re Holden losing $$. Iread somewhere factory put in minimal petrol and dealer had to fill....although thinking from a transport and safety issue this makes sense...

but I have read this is why VB-K boots were painted black but to save $$$ VL's were body coloured and Calais boot carpet was felt compared to SL/e.

[Express]

Originally Posted by PridenJoy

If i had the money, i would go and buy one of the final SSV Redlines in the coming months. Manual and in white

The standard redlines look great in white with black trim but if you are talking about the limited edition Motorsport Redlines then white is the last colour I’d get one in.

In my opinion it's a shocker as the red trim, stickers and rims just doesn’t suit the white.

[PridenJoy]

Originally Posted by Express

The standard redlines look great in white with black trim but if you are talking about the limited edition Motorsport Redlines then white is the last colour I’d get one in.

In my opinion it's a shocker as the red trim, stickers and rims just doesn’t suit the white.

image

image

Prior to the release of the series 2 VF SSV i had zero interest in Commodores, so didn't know there was a special edition.

Was just talking about the standard SSV redline. That limited edition one reminds me that i hate Commodores again. Too much **** factor for my liking.

[Express]

A few more of the limited edition Motorsport












It looks better in Red with black trim










.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Express

The standard redlines look great in white with black trim but if you are talking about the limited edition Motorsport Redlines then white is the last colour I’d get one in.

In my opinion it's a shocker as the red trim, stickers and rims just doesn’t suit the white.

Agreed. I'd go either Red Hot or Spitfire Green for the limited edition if I were going to. It goes better with the black.

I'd imagine most of these are sold though so you may have to compromise on colour choice if you're lucky and want one.