Nissan Patrol V8 demand continues to surge as Aussies holiday at home

[Sprintey]

Thanks for the comparison towing up Mt Hotham, that road and location has been a happy place for our family for many years. Beautiful and I've missed the views...

Stunned at the result! That turns every petrol vs diesel debate I ever heard on its head.


The other takeaway for me was the size of everything has increased since 2002 and 2007 when we last went around with the kids. The F-250! 1000Nm, 2.5T vans, 450kg towball downweights, 8T capacity in States and 4500kg rated here...
I think our stats were (60 Series, 2H): 285Nm, 1600kg van, 150kg rating towball downweight and the van was 110kg... it's like it's all been supersized!

[MercuryT]

That is a truly shocking looking vehicle.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Until you hook up a decent load to tow - then compare the consumption figures.

There's a very good reason why Kenworth and all don't offer a petrol powered option!

If Kenworth wanted to target people wanting to tow 3500kg 5% of the time, they probably would offer a petrol engine. The reality is that over the years, petrols have gotten more efficient and more reliable, whereas diesels have gotten less Efficient and more complex, making them a lot more expensive. I wouldn’t pay $20k extra for a diesel in a family car that has no increase in capability. I have two diesels, so I can’t say I dislike them. One of them is more of a need than the other because of the weight it pulls. But they are becoming less appealing. In the Ford Super Duty, the 7.3 petrol makes a compelling case against the Power Stroke diesel, and if I were pulling between 4-8 tonnes occasionally, I would take the 7.3 given today’s choices. It’s within about 2-3mpg of the diesel whether you’re towing or not. The diesel is rated to tow more, so it just comes down to towing weights and towing frequency, and where you want to put your money I guess. Back to Patrol vs LC200, with a $20k price differential, I would go the Patrol.

[cheap]

The GVM on both the 200 and Nissan are not great, but on the Nissan it is really abysmal. At least with the 200 there are many GVM upgrades available.

Nissan dealers, servicing and warranty are something special (sarc if you didn’t know)

Actually for around the city 20L/100 is really good for the Nissan, other people report +27L/100 city driving, and then wait till you take the Nissan outback through sand, rock crawling etc. Also some remote areas you can not bring a petrol powered vehicle into. Right now, petrol is $1.29 and diesel is $1.09.

Resale value, hmmm 🤔

Yes I‘m biased, but IMO Nissan have always been a generation behind Toyota in refinement and capability. Sometimes saving $20k so as to buy more fuel isn’t the complete reason, a +12 year old 200 design with a very average 6 speed auto (about the only downside to the 200) and they still outsell the Nissan - I wonder why?

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by cheap

The GVM on both the 200 and Nissan are not great, but on the Nissan it is really abysmal. At least with the 200 there are many GVM upgrades available.

Nissan dealers, servicing and warranty are something special (sarc if you didn’t know)

Actually for around the city 20L/100 is really good for the Nissan, other people report +27L/100 city driving, and then wait till you take the Nissan outback through sand, rock crawling etc. Also some remote areas you can not bring a petrol powered vehicle into. Right now, petrol is $1.29 and diesel is $1.09.

Resale value, hmmm 🤔

Yes I‘m biased, but IMO Nissan have always been a generation behind Toyota in refinement and capability. Sometimes saving $20k so as to buy more fuel isn’t the complete reason, a +12 year old 200 design with a very average 6 speed auto (about the only downside to the 200) and they still outsell the Nissan - I wonder why?

Yeah but most of that comes from brand loyalty. Toyota buyers are very loyal to the brand and won’t look at anything else. It will be interesting to see how LC200 values go when the less expensive, more capable LC300 hits the market. Toyota has also indicated an interest in moving away from diesels. If the twin turbo V6 hybrid becomes a reality, people might not even miss the diesel.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by chevypower

It will be interesting to see how LC200 values go when the less expensive, more capable LC300 hits the market.

Why expect it to be less expensive? It's easy money for Toyota.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Seems insane the Cruiser diesel would tow at 20L/100km (anyone got the review link?)

My old HJ60 would go 9.5 to 10.5 highway, no more than 13.5 towing 16ft pop top. What's going on with its gearing?

It should be 30 to 40% more efficient than same size petrol.

Toyota diesel "tech"

It would be interesting to see economy figures from a diesel vehicle whose manufacturer wasn't building engines about 2 generations behind.

No wonder they look like switching to hybrids, at least they know what they are doing with those. They should give up on diesel entirely, they are no good at it.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Thanks for the comparison towing up Mt Hotham, that road and location has been a happy place for our family for many years. Beautiful and I've missed the views...

Stunned at the result! That turns every petrol vs diesel debate I ever heard on its head.
!

That's why the RAM1500 is selling so Well...In My opinion...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

That's why the RAM1500 is selling so Well...In My opinion...

People love V8's.

You can't buy Ford or Holden V8's utes anymore.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by b0son

Why expect it to be less expensive? It's easy money for Toyota.

Supposedly, the Land Cruiser badge is going back to its roots. More basic, more capable, and true to off-road. Perhaps there will be a bigger gap with the Lexus version. It could be that it is repositioning in the US market, but I suspect something bigger going on with the off-road market with the return of the Defender, Bronco, and Hummer.

My take: 70 Series goes away. Next gen Tundra replaces it. Toyota wants to use the Land Cruiser badge to compete with Jeep and the above mentioned vehicles.

https://www.autotimesnews.com/the-ne...s-predecessor/

https://gearpatrol.com/2020/03/20/fu...er-2021-debut/

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by cheap

The GVM on both the 200 and Nissan are not great, but on the Nissan it is really abysmal. At least with the 200 there are many GVM upgrades available.

I think I rad somewhere that GVM upgrades were being stopped, or at least reduced.

people were getting their 200 series upgrades for 4 tonnes, which is madness

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by cheap

The GVM on both the 200 and Nissan are not great, but on the Nissan it is really abysmal. At least with the 200 there are many GVM upgrades available.

Nissan dealers, servicing and warranty are something special (sarc if you didn’t know)

Actually for around the city 20L/100 is really good for the Nissan, other people report +27L/100 city driving, and then wait till you take the Nissan outback through sand, rock crawling etc. Also some remote areas you can not bring a petrol powered vehicle into. Right now, petrol is $1.29 and diesel is $1.09.

Resale value, hmmm 🤔

Yes I‘m biased, but IMO Nissan have always been a generation behind Toyota in refinement and capability. Sometimes saving $20k so as to buy more fuel isn’t the complete reason, a +12 year old 200 design with a very average 6 speed auto (about the only downside to the 200) and they still outsell the Nissan - I wonder why?

Toyota LandCruiser GVM 3350, payload 610kg, Nissan patrol GVM 3500, payload 765kg. But the patrol is worse?

Not sure why the patrol would drink so much worse than a LandCruiser when 4wding, when they both drink basically the same in every other way. This has been proven again and again.

Resale value is reported to be excellent on Nissan Patrols. Y62 model included. Many go on about how a LandCruiser outsells a patrol by quite a margin. Nissan have said that they sell every patrol they can get their hands on in Australia. I’ve heard of waiting lists too. Might contribute to that good resale and reduced sale numbers.

Fuel costs, that is going to absolutely vary all over the country. Last year in Sydney diesel was a struggle to get below $1.45 constantly, whilst petrol would jump from $1.30 to $1.70 (E10) on a cycle.

Check this link: https://www.caradvice.com.au/727735/...xl-comparison/

Check out the maths towards the end of the review, makes for an interesting comparison.

Patrol wins the comparison btw.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Toyota LandCruiser GVM 3350, payload 610kg, Nissan patrol GVM 3500, payload 765kg. But the patrol is worse?...

Nissan is worse. Nissan is playing with numbers, uses Tare mass and then there is the use of a sliding scale GVM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HbYdHu9Qis

From about 7:25 onwards Cadogan explains it all.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by cheap

Nissan is worse. Nissan is playing with numbers, uses Tare mass and then there is the use of a sliding scale GVM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HbYdHu9Qis

From about 7:25 onwards Cadogan explains it all.

God I hate Cadogan.

But yes you are right, not much chop on that side of things.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Toyota diesel "tech"

It would be interesting to see economy figures from a diesel vehicle whose manufacturer wasn't building engines about 2 generations behind.

No wonder they look like switching to hybrids, at least they know what they are doing with those. They should give up on diesel entirely, they are no good at it.

As mentioned the auto transmission in the LC200 is sub-optimal. There are inexpensive aftermarket transmission lock-up kits (approx $650) which dramatically alter its behaviour and dramatically lower fuel consumption. MY2016 LC200's onward have recalibrated shift and lockup points - not perfect but a big improvement over old.

The TTD V8 is a winner, it makes considerably more HP and TQ than any previous Toyota 4x4 engine. It has really good fuel economy considering it’s hauling +3000kg with stock vehicles getting 9-10L/100 on the highway.

Go to a weighbridge and you’ll be amazed at how heavy both 200 and Nissan really are - much heavier than the BS in the brouchers. Hence the need for GVM upgrade

MY2016 LC200's onwards are equipped with DPF’s and these put a bit of a dampener on the fun. The non-DPF engines with a reflash are good for +220kilowasps and near enough 1000Nm. With a decent exhaust, they sound anywhere from V8 throaty to NASCAR. If you want more then there are options available (just sayin’ 😉 )

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I guess you'd really have to weigh its primary use. If I lived on a farm wanted/needed that V8 sound and pulling power without the hassles of DPF. I would definitely consider something like this.

Around town as you say it doesnt make sense. I read it can get up to 20L/100 in stop start traffic. Thats insane.

having spent a lot of time growing up on or round farms and farmers , id have to say if you were a farmer youd be going the diesel option as all your other equipment is diesel and unless you want to run a fuel station with mutilpule tanks for all the different fuels thats why they go diesel vehicles also they get the gov subsisty on the fuel for it being a farm vehicle

[kcee]

My father traded his 200LC for a petrol Ram 1500

His main reason was for GVM, to upgrade his 200LC to tow his new van he had to ...... buy a new 200 series - and spec it up from the Factory only.
Apparently there was no legal way he could change it using aftermarket stuff.


He is much happier in the Ram than the 200 for pulling power/ towing the van in general, said fuel consumption is comparable and probably would not go back.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by chevypower

If Kenworth wanted to target people wanting to tow 3500kg 5% of the time, they probably would offer a petrol engine. The reality is that over the years, petrols have gotten more efficient and more reliable, whereas diesels have gotten less Efficient and more complex, making them a lot more expensive. I wouldn’t pay $20k extra for a diesel in a family car that has no increase in capability. I have two diesels, so I can’t say I dislike them. One of them is more of a need than the other because of the weight it pulls. But they are becoming less appealing. In the Ford Super Duty, the 7.3 petrol makes a compelling case against the Power Stroke diesel, and if I were pulling between 4-8 tonnes occasionally, I would take the 7.3 given today’s choices. It’s within about 2-3mpg of the diesel whether you’re towing or not. The diesel is rated to tow more, so it just comes down to towing weights and towing frequency, and where you want to put your money I guess. Back to Patrol vs LC200, with a $20k price differential, I would go the Patrol.

We did a great thread on the 7.3 here on AFF - it's a really surprising motor as designed to be pushrod & simple, and the story on how they designed it was a great one too. (Worked backwards from a load/efficiency/power/torque requirement and lo and behold the simple petrol V8 came out as most efficient).

Drop that in the Expedition, bring it here and destroy these small Japanese wagons...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by cheap

The TTD V8 is a winner, it makes considerably more HP and TQ than any previous Toyota 4x4 engine.

That's like saying a turd sandwich is better than a turd hamburger.

Just look how pathetically low the power and torque figures are compared to similar size engines from other manufacturers.

The numbers roughly match what everyone else is getting out of a 3 litre V6 TD.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That's like saying a turd sandwich is better than a turd hamburger.

Just look how pathetically low the power and torque figures are compared to similar size engines from other manufacturers.

The numbers roughly match what everyone else is getting out of a 3 litre V6 TD.

How will power etc figures in the others be at 600k

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

How will power etc figures in the others be at 600k

Probably the same after the LC has had several rounds of $1000 injectors, DPFs replaced and dust cleaned out of its air box.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

How will power etc figures in the others be at 600k

Still a lot higher than the LC's 4.5 V8

[cheap]

Yep LC200's are bad, oh wait, what's this?

Landcruiser Sahara special edition - a run of 400 vehicles, if you're quick there is 1 left !

Keep dreaming boys

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Still a lot higher than the LC's 4.5 V8

Toyota sell 10 million vehicles a year. Why would that be???

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Toyota sell 10 million vehicles a year. Why would that be???

Underpowered engines that pansies don't get scared by?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Underpowered engines that pansies don't get scared by?

Steady on sport!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Steady on sport!

Try a sense of humour.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Try a sense of humour.

Thats what the smiles are for, use em!

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Toyota sell 10 million vehicles a year. Why would that be???

Also had the worlds highest fine (later beaten by VW) for being deceptive about the fly by wire accelerator on the corolla that was responsible for a number deaths around the world.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

How will power etc figures in the others be at 600k

Fair chance of being better...

https://www.turbochargersplus.com/tu...and-solutions/

She ain't no 1HD-FTE