Insurance Bodywork Failure

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Brodes

Our policy does have choice of repairer, however due to this being a large weather event with many cars damaged, I believe they have something written in their terms and conditions that it is to be repaired to their assigned contractor, hence we were not able to choose.

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How was the colour match to the adjoining metal panels compared to the metal to plastic “match”

[Brodes]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

How was the colour match to the adjoining metal panels compared to the metal to plastic “match”

The entire lot of steel panels were painted so I'm unable to answer sorry.

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[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brodes

The entire lot of steel panels were painted so I'm unable to answer sorry.

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So they only had to colour match to the bumpers, and couldn't even do that. Very poor.

[Brodes]

Picked the car up so here are the full body pics. These are taken with the car under cover on an overcast day.
Interested to read other judgments on whether you'd accept this level of difference or not.

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[Tassie f100]

Not defending the painter,but my mate the panel beater/ spray painter says the problem they come up against is matching panels to be right at the time or a couple of years later when the new paint has faded a bit.Match it now and get picked on when it fades to a different colour or paint it a bit brighter now so it looks right in a couple of years.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Brodes

Picked the car up so here are the full body pics. These are taken with the car under cover on an overcast day.
Interested to read other judgments on whether you'd accept this level of difference or not.imageimage

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the side skirt looks same colour as bumper in 1st pic. i assume the skirt wasnt painted by them?

[prktkljokr]

Could be the pictures, but to me that front bar looks like it has had a previous blend, I take it the bonnet was also painted as it seems to match the fender and where the grille meets the bonnet?

Where the bar meets the fender the bar looks like the paint is more dirty, possibly blended like that from the previous fender to match a previous repair?, but then at the grille it looks to be a bit cleaner and matching better to the bonnet?, what does the right side look like?

Have you owned it from new?, has it had a bumper repair at any stage while you have had it?

Its a hard one without the car in front of me I can only go on what it looks like

[Brodes]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

the side skirt looks same colour as bumper in 1st pic. i assume the skirt wasnt painted by them?

No plastics were repainted.

The bumpers highlight the difference the most due to those surfaces keeping the same lines and angles as the steel panels they are adjacent too. Hence why the skirts and other components don't seem as bad but they are the same difference when you see the car in person.

I will mention if I haven't already, that the repairer and assessor have both confirmed the colours are different, it's just that they say they believe the rate of difference is acceptable which I disagree with. This is where I'm arguing that how is such a difference formally determined? If it's just judged by the opinion of an assessor from the insurance company then isn't their a conflict of interest? Rather to avoid such an opinion based conflict, shouldn't they instead have a formal measurement system and parameters to guide this which is easily possible?



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[MrEL]

Originally Posted by Brodes

Picked the car up so here are the full body pics. These are taken with the car under cover on an overcast day.
Interested to read other judgments on whether you'd accept this level of difference or not.imageimage

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Honestly looks no worse then any other FG out there.
The bars didn't match properly from new.
That's how you pick if a later model car has taken a hit. The bars and bodywork match so it's obvious it's been resprayed. Reds and oranges fade terribly.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Brodes

No plastics were repainted.

The bumpers highlight the difference the most due to those surfaces keeping the same lines and angles as the steel panels they are adjacent too. Hence why the skirts and other components don't seem as bad but they are the same difference when you see the car in person.

I will mention if I haven't already, that the repairer and assessor have both confirmed the colours are different, it's just that they say they believe the rate of difference is acceptable which I disagree with. This is where I'm arguing that how is such a difference formally determined? If it's just judged by the opinion of an assessor from the insurance company then isn't their a conflict of interest? Rather to avoid such an opinion based conflict, shouldn't they instead have a formal measurement system and parameters to guide this which is easily possible?



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ok, well at least you are all on same page.
Good luck with it.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by MrEL

Honestly looks no worse then any other FG out there.
The bars didn't match properly from new.
That's how you pick if a later model car has taken a hit. The bars and bodywork match so it's obvious it's been resprayed. Reds and oranges fade terribly.

this is exactly my point. Our FG is a shocker.
BA mandarin colour pops to mind. look at the plastic V metal paint on those ones. almost looks like 2 different colours were used.

[Mont5.0]

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

image

There is a Ford Territory near us that has that sort of fading only about 2-3 times worse,varies from a golden bronze to almost yellow orange

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

There is a Ford Territory near us that has that sort of fading only about 2-3 times worse,varies from a golden bronze to almost yellow orange

and the plastics stay the darker orange??
if so, its almost the norm.

these are way more drastic than the OP, but its out there already. Oranges seem to be the worst, followed by reds.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

and the plastics stay the darker orange??
if so, its almost the norm.

these are way more drastic than the OP, but its out there already. Oranges seem to be the worst, followed by reds.

Will have to take better look at where the fading is worst

[Mont5.0]

this is what im talking about

under fluro's in the garage, front bar and skirts look like they are in primer.

show us an outside pic OP

[arm79]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I dont think anyone is having a dig at me personally, we are having a friendly discussion on why the poor OP has a different colour bumper to his fender and the possible causes and remedies for it

All good. I thought I was seeing a frustration in in your writing. Obviously misread it.

Thanks for the details on how the repairs work though. Very enlightening.

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

There is a Ford Territory near us that has that sort of fading only about 2-3 times worse,varies from a golden bronze to almost yellow orange

Yep, we have a local Territory that looks like that too.

[Brodes]

Thanks for the feedback guys, interesting to hear other's opinions on whether this is bad enough or not. The fact is for us is our perspective and knowledge that there was no difference when it went in compared to when we got it back, and this is the killer for us having paid the money to a decent insurance company for full comprehensive. I'm certain that if we paid out of our own pockets to any other decent repairer to have the same work completed, they would have and could have made a much better match with a little more time and effort. We shouldn't have to wait years of exposure to hope for the potential that the colours might match eventually, they should match now immediately after repair.

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[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Brodes

Thanks for the feedback guys, interesting to hear other's opinions on whether this is bad enough or not. The fact is for us is our perspective and knowledge that there was no difference when it went in compared to when we got it back, and this is the killer for us having paid the money to a decent insurance company for full comprehensive. I'm certain that if we paid out of our own pockets to any other decent repairer to have the same work completed, they would have and could have made a much better match with a little more time and effort. We shouldn't have to wait years of exposure to hope for the potential that the colours might match eventually, they should match now immediately after repair.

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Why not have the people who did the repair paint the bumpers and skirts if you want it to match.
Surely you acknowledge that the elements have degraded the finish of those sections so now is a great time to have a complete freshen up whilst only costing you the price to paint a few plastics.
That way the whole car looks new again and matches.

Its a beautiful looking car, surely its worth spending a few extra dollars to bring the whole thing back to mint.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brodes

The fact is for us is our perspective and knowledge that there was no difference when it went in compared to when we got it back, and this is the killer for us having paid the money to a decent insurance company for full comprehensive.

I'm with you on this mate. It doesn't matter what other cars look like or if there has been some fading over time. The whole point of insurance is to have the vehicle repaired back to how it was. If it matched driving in then it should match driving out.

The 'oh, they're all like that' argument is exactly what many can't tolerate about dealerships, yet somehow in this industry it's perfectly acceptable??

Having said that, I also agree with what BENT_8 says, if they refuse to fix it then it may be worth getting the plastics done out of your own pocket. At least then the whole car is new.

I'm going to assume it looks worse in person than what the photos portray. I know mine did when I took photos to show people. It didn't stand out as much.

Good luck mate.

[Brodes]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why not have the people who did the repair paint the bumpers and skirts if you want it to match.

Surely you acknowledge that the elements have degraded the finish of those sections so now is a great time to have a complete freshen up whilst only costing you the price to paint a few plastics.

That way the whole car looks new again and matches.



Its a beautiful looking car, surely its worth spending a few extra dollars to bring the whole thing back to mint.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why not have the people who did the repair paint the bumpers and skirts if you want it to match.

Surely you acknowledge that the elements have degraded the finish of those sections so now is a great time to have a complete freshen up whilst only costing you the price to paint a few plastics.

That way the whole car looks new again and matches.



Its a beautiful looking car, surely its worth spending a few extra dollars to bring the whole thing back to mint.

I don't acknowledge the elements have degraded the finish as we always keep it undercover and out of the sun wherever possible which is most of the time. Even so they should still do their best to match the fade and possible difference, which during the conversation with them they claim to have and use the equipment to carry this out; this was either a lie or they don't know how to do this properly.

I'll see how we go with the appeal and go from there.

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[Nikked]

Edge to edge matches are often difficult.

And funnily enough, repairers don't get paid to spend hours matching colour, at some point they need to draw the line. Not as simple as just grabbing the code from the VIN and spraying...some paint brands formulars are off. That, and there is factor colour variation, previous repairs, weathering etc etc.

And that is even with technology such as colour scanners etc etc

Worth asking them about it, but keep in mind what actually happens in these shops...

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

For me, it boils down to the insurance company wanting to get away with the cheapest repair they can to satisfy the customer. The repair shop is only doing what they are able to do within the bounds of what the insurer allows.

Whilst I appreciate the frustration the OP feels, we all need to keep in mind that it's most likely not the repair shop's fault. I think the OP approaching the insurer, as he has indicated he is doing, is the best way to get resolution. If you have the evidence of what the car looked like prior to the incident, and what it looks like afterwards, then you should have a good standing. The clincher will be this statement in the PDS:

In the event of repairs, we will a fair and reasonable attempt to match the repairs to undamaged areas, using the closest match available...

The fair and reasonable part is where the disparate views of the parties involved will come into play.

Good luck and let us know how you go, Brodes.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Brodes

I don't acknowledge the elements have degraded the finish as we always keep it undercover and out of the sun wherever possible which is most of the time. Even so they should still do their best to match the fade and possible difference, which during the conversation with them they claim to have and use the equipment to carry this out; this was either a lie or they don't know how to do this properly.

I'll see how we go with the appeal and go from there.

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C'mon man, every time you take it out even for brief periods, wash it, polish it, the finish from factory deminishes, nothing stays new forever unless its kept in a sealed bubble.
Thats why they actually make bubbles for collectors cars as keeping them in a garage doesnt prevent contaminants.

What would you rather have, 3/4 of your car repainted to look 10yrs old or a few plastics resprayed at your expense to make them look new again and in doing so tidying up any minor scuffs or stone chips etc.?

I know which way I'd go and thats the latter.

A full respray on a 10yr old car for the cost of a couple of bumpers, skirts and the excess.

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

C'mon man, every time you take it out even for brief periods, wash it, polish it, the finish from factory deminishes, nothing stays new forever unless its kept in a sealed bubble.
Thats why they actually make bubbles for collectors cars as keeping them in a garage doesnt prevent contaminants.

What would you rather have, 3/4 of your car repainted to look 10yrs old or a few plastics resprayed at your expense to make them look new again and in doing so tidying up any minor scuffs or stone chips etc.?

I know which way I'd go and thats the latter.

A full respray on a 10yr old car for the cost of a couple of bumpers, skirts and the excess.

Comes back to the old thing of people expecting Bentley results for Great Wall outlay.............

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by arm79

A couple of stories to consider.

1. When I bought my FPV all the plastics were a different colour to the body panels. The car was painted Ego and at that time it was about 15 months old and had spent all of its time in a garage. The plastics all had a green tinge to them. It was like the panels all were grey and the plastics were a weird shade of army green.

I lodged a warranty claim, to which Ford ran with the standard "plastics will always be different" compared to a panel shop which said it was just a crap job.

I argued and argued for months until I got my way. One way day the dealer called and said "claim has been approved".

You bought a second hand FPV and managed to get a warranty claim for body work approved? Unheard of. Must have been some long, tense and awkward encounters with Ford. It takes some special effort to continue to push-back on warranty to the point they eventually honour a claim not because it's a valid one but because they're forced to do it for closure lol. I think most of us just accepted "that's how they all are". Except Shockwave, and Mandarin - the ones that were especially bad. The rest were always off and when buying and looking at demonstrators, it was obvious this was just how it is.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why not have the people who did the repair paint the bumpers and skirts if you want it to match.

This is usually what ends up happening.

I have seen insurance companies come to the party at times. Even when Ford was doing the Shockwave cars, most of the time it was just the metal surfaces effected and hence just the metal being painted. Depending on the age and condition of the car, the match was worse.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by FPV414

You bought a second hand FPV and managed to get a warranty claim for body work approved? Unheard of.

Well, call me Mr Magic or Mr Unheard of. Because it did happen.

It is a 2007 Force 6 and when I bought it it had belonged to the original owner for about 18 months and had about 11,000km on it.

When I first saw it and took possession of it the days, like the financial climate (right at the start of the financial crisis where everyone was losing everything. But it was how I could afford to buy it), were rather dark and overcast. It looked fine in that light.

But then the sun came out and I was like "WTF have I bought. Australia's only 2 tone FPV". It was that bad. It was like the paint was so thin the light was going straight through it.

I wish I could show you, but the pics are probably long gone. If I'm lucky they will be on some ancient hard drive in the bottom of a box somewhere.

Essentially the original owner paid $80,000 for this car. If I was the original owner who paid $80k for a turbo falcon and saw how bad it was, I would have rejected the delivery and told them to fix it or get me another one.

Originally Posted by FPV414

Must have been some long, tense and awkward encounters with Ford. It takes some special effort to continue to push-back on warranty to the point they eventually honour a claim not because it's a valid one but because they're forced to do it for closure lol.

I think most of us just accepted "that's how they all are". Except Shockwave, and Mandarin - the ones that were especially bad. The rest were always off and when buying and looking at demonstrators, it was obvious this was just how it is.

It wasn't really.

At the 15,000 service at Binks Ford in Footscray I complained about the paint. They agreed it was pathetic, but said I had to go back the selling dealer. So I took it back to City Ford. They agreed it was pathetic and got a quote for repainting which Ford ultimately rejected.

I had a couple of whinges for Ford CRC in between.

Then I took it in for a transmission problem to Binks at Deer Park and complained about the paint again. They said the paint was pathetic. I didn't know at the time but they had someone from FPV come out to look at the paint and they said it was pathetic too, so sent it off for a quote.

When I was driving home from Qld I got a call from Binks and they said the paint repair had been approved. It was then I found out someone from FPV got involved. At the same time they told me they made an appointment for some high up at Ford CRC and the ZF man to meet and look at the car for the transmission issue in a months time.

Consequently, as soon as the Ford CRC guy drove the car he apparently said to the ZF guy "This is bullsh*t you haven't replaced the transmission. Get it done ASAP". Which thankfully it finally did.

I'll admit I wasn't going to let it go, but then I didn't really try hard or make any special pushes. Having the manufacturer behind me saying "its crap" was obviously the turning point. But not once did a dealer say to me "this is normal"

To me is just disappointing you and other owners accepted "that's how they all are". Don't knock me for trying and everyone else giving up. Maybe if other owners pushed harder Ford would have lifted their game and did a better job.



There are some of the repairs there. I'm sure the first line is the respray. The part number listed is for a bumper, but it never got a warranty bumper. But the dates and amount ($3000 was what I understood it cost) line up.

But even then that report doesn't list the half of it. The car was a piece of sh*t lemon. It had $32,000 or $36,000 worth of warranty work on it. Can't remember which figure.

New engine at 3,000km. Apparently they took a new engine off the production line and stamped it with the cars number and installed it. Plus new turbo, transmission, 2 diffs, 3 sets of diff bushes, rear control arm bushes, various small items and of course the paint.

None of which was caused by abuse, it was just a crap badly built car. I was stunned it made it to 100,000km without falling apart.

But all of that's beside the point. The moral of the story was that if painters want to, they can make plastic and metal match perfect (or so near perfect the eye cant tell) if they want to.

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by arm79

Well, call me Mr Magic or Mr Unheard of. Because it did happen.

It is a 2007 Force 6 and when I bought it it had belonged to the original owner for about 18 months and had about 11,000km on it.

When I first saw it and took possession of it the days, like the financial climate (right at the start of the financial crisis where everyone was losing everything. But it was how I could afford to buy it), were rather dark and overcast. It looked fine in that light.

But then the sun came out and I was like "WTF have I bought. Australia's only 2 tone FPV". It was that bad. It was like the paint was so thin the light was going straight through it.

I wish I could show you, but the pics are probably long gone. If I'm lucky they will be on some ancient hard drive in the bottom of a box somewhere.

Essentially the original owner paid $80,000 for this car. If I was the original owner who paid $80k for a turbo falcon and saw how bad it was, I would have rejected the delivery and told them to fix it or get me another one.



It wasn't really.

At the 15,000 service at Binks Ford in Footscray I complained about the paint. They agreed it was pathetic, but said I had to go back the selling dealer. So I took it back to City Ford. They agreed it was pathetic and got a quote for repainting which Ford ultimately rejected.

I had a couple of whinges for Ford CRC in between.

Then I took it in for a transmission problem to Binks at Deer Park and complained about the paint again. They said the paint was pathetic. I didn't know at the time but they had someone from FPV come out to look at the paint and they said it was pathetic too, so sent it off for a quote.

When I was driving home from Qld I got a call from Binks and they said the paint repair had been approved. It was then I found out someone from FPV got involved. At the same time they told me they made an appointment for some high up at Ford CRC and the ZF man to meet and look at the car for the transmission issue in a months time.

Consequently, as soon as the Ford CRC guy drove the car he apparently said to the ZF guy "This is bullsh*t you haven't replaced the transmission. Get it done ASAP". Which thankfully it finally did.

I'll admit I wasn't going to let it go, but then I didn't really try hard or make any special pushes. Having the manufacturer behind me saying "its crap" was obviously the turning point. But not once did a dealer say to me "this is normal"

To me is just disappointing you and other owners accepted "that's how they all are". Don't knock me for trying and everyone else giving up. Maybe if other owners pushed harder Ford would have lifted their game and did a better job.

image

There are some of the repairs there. I'm sure the first line is the respray. The part number listed is for a bumper, but it never got a warranty bumper. But the dates and amount ($3000 was what I understood it cost) line up.

But even then that report doesn't list the half of it. The car was a piece of sh*t lemon. It had $32,000 or $36,000 worth of warranty work on it. Can't remember which figure.

New engine at 3,000km. Apparently they took a new engine off the production line and stamped it with the cars number and installed it. Plus new turbo, transmission, 2 diffs, 3 sets of diff bushes, rear control arm bushes, various small items and of course the paint.

None of which was caused by abuse, it was just a crap badly built car. I was stunned it made it to 100,000km without falling apart.

But all of that's beside the point. The moral of the story was that if painters want to, they can make plastic and metal match perfect (or so near perfect the eye cant tell) if they want to.

Fair play, I understood it as it being the common poor paint match between bumpers on all makes and models - but yours does sound especially bad.

That is a huge amount of warranty, but I have seen a lot worse here and there.

I have seen your car in person many years ago at an F6 cruise. I have also worked in CRC so I understand how their processes work. They put even Shockwave owners through the mill to get resprays authorised - I remember something like needing to have 4 panels affected, with larger than 20c piece size paint peel - this is on what at the time was a 2-3 year old car - and their known f* up. I feel awful for the people who had FPVs that they'd stored with delivery KM, only to find out it WILL one day need to be stripped mostly back to bare metal and repainted.

Do you still have the Force? Lol. I had a Neo (one of 3) at one point, 60ish thousand KM immaculate. One of the best FPV's I have ever owned. Sold it to some guy who destroyed it. It's still around but it's derelict.