This Australian city wants to charge people to work on their cars

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

That truck looks truly imposing!

You should see the semi variant of that one that rocks up to pump out the sewage wells in the new Redstone estate in Sunbury, because its not hooked up to the sewage main yet for some reason.

Every morning around 5AM you drive by and you see the big boy eductor truck out there pumping out the wet well into it self, to move their waste to the waste plant.

Another local government mensa candidate move on behalf of Hume City Council, mustn't be able to afford the phone call to the state government in their $500M/yearly budget.

[Franco Cozzo]

I like to get the perspectives of the boffins over at Reddit, particularly in r/Melbourne because they're a strange lot, the majority of them are in support of these council bylaws regulating people having cars on their properties and the like



You can see the attitudes on display from the average person, they're supportive of it, most of the arguments for the permit system are coming from people pushing the environmental damage that they perceive cars do, and also things like 'about time car drivers paid for the space they take up', so there's a lots of underlying support here.

Having a look at the council, this is what their law states:

28. Vehicles and Machinery

(1) A person must not, except with a permit, use private land to:

(a) dismantle;

(b) repair; or

(c) service

vehicles or machinery in circumstances where the activity or use is detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.

(2) An owner or occupier of private land must not, except with a permit, keep on that private land more than two vehicles which are not currently registered with or have a permit from the Department of Transport and Planning or any other relevant registering authority

So this can take in you working on your own project car, and I suspect this will be up to your neighbors dobbing you into the council. I don't like how gray area its worded 'detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.' - by whose definition and what exactly, lowering of land values? 'Unsightly activities'/Eyesore? That old person who looks out their lounge room window and complains about everything?

Looking at the permit fees:

Activities requiring a permit on private land use

If you want to conduct any of the following activities on private land, you will need a permit.

Storing or repairing a recreational vehicle
Storing a shipping container (up to 90 days)
Storing long heavy vehicles (If you intend to park more than 1 long heavy vehicle on private land, please consult our planning team).
Storing more than 2 unregistered vehicles (up to 90 days)
Storing a skip bin
Putting up temporary dwellings (no more than 14 days in any 60-day period)
Dismantle, repair or service vehicles on private land (non-commercial)

You must provide a site plan

You must provide a site plan that illustrates where your activity will take place in relation to the intersection.
Fees

Application Fee: $150 (non-refundable)
Permit Fee: $150
Long/Heavy Vehicles: $473.00 (for storing 1 heavy vehicle)
Shipping Container: $350.00
Temporary Dwelling: $350.00
Unregistered Vehicle: $250 (per vehicle)
Dismantle, repair or service vehicles on private land - $250 (per vehicle)

The Permit Fee applies to types of Public Land Use permits not specified above. Application fee and permit fee are both payable at time of application. Permit fee will be refunded if your application is unsuccessful.

https://www.casey.vic.gov.au/apply-p...and-use-permit

[Sprintey]

One comment I found on the CE article was this by 'Itsumishi'

"City of Casey's Council was sacked and Administrators were appointed for four years from 2020 until November 2024. It seems like the decision to enact these permits was put in place by the Administrators back in June.

The sacking of the Council was done under Local Government Minister Adem Somyurek in the name of *aherm* stamping out corruption."

[Franco Cozzo]

Somyurekt

[randel]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

.....
The retired public servant there for a hard-on of protocol and procedure, its better than being at home with the mrs he'll chuckle to anyone within earshot.
....

I think theres some of them around here.

Know everything, never wrong, always the victim

[Sprintey]

I think Vicco is ripe for a change in government and something like a Kennett, or maybe even a Millei might be the only way to stop its bureaucratic enlargement.

Wasn't in Vic then, but the late 1980s saw: ALP long term govt, debt balloon ->Kirner gets the poison handball -> Kennett landslide election win -> painful change.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I think Vicco is ripe for a change in government and something like a Kennett, or maybe even a Millei might be the only way to stop its bureaucratic enlargement.

Wasn't in Vic then, but the late 1980s saw: ALP long term govt, debt balloon ->Kirner gets the poison handball -> Kennett landslide election win -> painful change.

Fordman1 is on the money

I'd like to see a layer of government removed - bye bye local government.

State government can absorb its intended functions,

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I like to get the perspectives of the boffins over at Reddit, particularly in r/Melbourne because they're a strange lot, the majority of them are in support of these council bylaws regulating people having cars on their properties and the like

image

You can see the attitudes on display from the average person, they're supportive of it, most of the arguments for the permit system are coming from people pushing the environmental damage that they perceive cars do, and also things like 'about time car drivers paid for the space they take up', so there's a lots of underlying support here.

Having a look at the council, this is what their law states:



So this can take in you working on your own project car, and I suspect this will be up to your neighbors dobbing you into the council. I don't like how gray area its worded 'detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.' - by whose definition and what exactly, lowering of land values? 'Unsightly activities'/Eyesore? That old person who looks out their lounge room window and complains about everything?

Looking at the permit fees:





https://www.casey.vic.gov.au/apply-p...and-use-permit

Then when the working poor and those on low incomes can’t afford repairs to their vehicles, especially those who’ve splashed out on a 15 year old Euro, the ones in support of this will publicly drag workshops through the mud and claim they’re preying on vulnerable poor people.

[AMB]

I presume the propose legislation is to do with cars at the front of a property were the work being done is visible and "unsightly" from the street. Surely they can't enforce such rules if you are doing it out of sight down the back or even behind a high front fence. It would be like trying to control what you can do inside your home.

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by AMB

I presume the propose legislation is to do with cars at the front of a property were the work being done is visible and "unsightly" from the street. Surely they can't enforce such rules if you are doing it out of sight down the back or even behind a high front fence. It would be like trying to control what you can do inside your home.

In line with Foxtrot3's post, https://www.fordforums.com.au/vbport...6&postcount=15, I think you're on the money. It's a rule created to get rid of nuisance residents habits, ie.. hoarders and such.
It's not designed for the everyday man/woman.

[Citroënbender]

Why can’t councils put their effort into:

• Controlling noxious weeds
• Stopping people from blocking footpaths
• Policing unauthorised tree removal or killing by developers (with commensurate penalties)
• Not having closed or partially closed meetings
• Keeping their books open to public scrutiny
• Regularly reviewing parking rules for location-specific needs
• Prosecuting kerbside dumping and fly tipping
• Encouraging private conservation of natural assets

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Captain Stubing

In line with Foxtrot3's post, https://www.fordforums.com.au/vbport...6&postcount=15, I think you're on the money. It's a rule created to get rid of nuisance residents habits, ie.. hoarders and such.
It's not designed for the everyday man/woman.

It's too broad, you can apply section 1 to anyone working on any car on their property.

If that's who they're targeting, rather than doing very open and broad legislation, it needs to be further targeted, otherwise it's open to 'scope creep', that's the last thing you want is some local laws officer being able to target anyone they wish, there'll be some real estate agent who has a friend in Casey City Council who will be able to get the local laws officer to do their bidding.

There isn't even any description/definition of 'detrimental to the amenity of the area'.

This is a legal picnic, this is the people we're talking about giving these broad reaching powers to here:

The Andrews Government has decided to sack Casey council, which has been embroiled in a scandal involving allegedly corrupt land deals, government sources have confirmed.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...17-p541gs.html

Municipal Monitor Laurinda Gardner’s report found clear evidence the council failed to provide good governance to the City of Casey and recommended its dismissal.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/casey...ncil-dismissed

[ute83]

Originally Posted by AMB

It would be like trying to control what you can do inside your home.

That's next.

[Citroënbender]

Another simple problem with the original notion is, the underlying presumption that everyone has equal ability to perform some of these activities on their own property. My driveway is such that you would not consider it safe to stand a car on for changing a tyre - the block slopes over five metres from one end to the other, and a bit less crossways. So of course I’m going to do my tyre rotations on the street.

[Syndrome]

Just another excuse to steal our money then urinate it into with wind!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Oh dear, this is what I mean. These people think they’re Federal Politicians. WTF is local government talking about Nuclear Weapons (and allegiance to Palestine, as some do) for.

These people don’t have the business of LG as their priority, their priority is the Greens Federal BS.

Get rid of LG and have another level of existing Government handle the business if they can’t do it.

You’ve got me going Franco, this topic is something that gets me “all riled up” everytime I get involved in the discussion.

Lol.

Unfortunately getting rid of local government is not a good idea, imagine state government looking after everything, some areas will get great services & projects while others will miss out, this is what is called "pork-barrelling"
Something you really don't want.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Another simple problem with the original notion is, the underlying presumption that everyone has equal ability to perform some of these activities on their own property. My driveway is such that you would not consider it safe to stand a car on for changing a tyre - the block slopes over five metres from one end to the other, and a bit less crossways. So of course I’m going to do my tyre rotations on the street.

Your circumstance doesn't fall within this item. This is for private land ensuring it doesn't obstruct others and or amenities around the area.

Vehicles and Machinery
(1) A person must not, except with a permit, use private land to:

• dismantle

• repair; or

• service

vehicles or machinery in circumstances where the activity or use is detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.

(2) An owner or occupier of private land must not, except with a permit, keep on that private land more than two vehicles which are not currently registered with or have a permit from the Department of Transport and Planning or any other relevant registering authority

Obstructions from Private Land

(1) An owner or occupier of private land must not allow any vegetation, sign, fence, structure or other thing on that private land to overhang the boundary of the private land so as to:

• obstruct a pedestrian or the clear view of the driver of any vehicle or other road user travelling along the road abutting the private land;

• encroach upon any adjacent road or Council land;

• obstruct Council staff or contractors engaged by Council in the execution of their duties;

• otherwise prejudice the safe and convenient use of any road abutting the privateland by pedestrians, drivers or other road users; or

• obscure streetlights or a traffic control item

You can read the document and more about it here without the sensationalised outrage.

The law is there to stop the bogan home wrecker yard and the safety hazards that go with it for the rest of the residents. I have no issue with that at all. You're still able to work on your vehicle as long as it doesn't encroach on others.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Unfortunately getting rid of local government is not a good idea, imagine state government looking after everything, some areas will get great services & projects while others will miss out, this is what is called "pork-barrelling"
Something you really don't want.

Still happens now - just one ward gets looked after much more than the others,

[Crazy Dazz]

TL;DR: A Melbourne council has it's heads up it's ****.
Colour me shocked.

Local Councils are literally a waste of money and oxygen

[swamp]

hi
The issue with this ,, once originally designed to keep ferals under control . Agood law .
But once this type of law is fully approved and up and running other LGA will see this and apply the ruling at your place . LGA Motivation will be being Woke or being broke .
The honest responsible person will be caught up in this mess .

Same as the hoon laws a the stupid interpretation by police . Getting to the point of being a joke
1/ your exhaust tip sticks out beyond body work LOL [tail pipe 40mm] [I`ve seen this on a report yet older cars have tips 100mm long to reach the rear bar and then extend another 50mm ]. Really another ruling authority totally overstepping .

The real starts with good intentions but ends up applying to all people in an overboard fashion . The issue is the law makers which trickles down to the enforcers . The laws like this will be abused and exploited in the current frame work .

Hide your nest oil change .
Late model Toyota oil change =850$ service of course I`m doing it DIY

[Crazy Dazz]

I don' know if anyone bothers with this anymore, but back in the day, since crossovers are technically on council land, they were required to contribute to the cost.
In the City of Wanneroo (where I still live) you either got a cash contribution from the Council (Which they invariably found a reason not to pay) or you waited and the council would construct the crossover for you (from concrete.)
Paving and concrete companies would always give a written disclaimer stating that their work would probably not qualify for the rebate.

As a result, there were entire suburbs where half the houses had no crossovers, as the wait time was two years and growing...

When out walking one morning, I came upon a council crew preparing the ground for a new crossover. Flat ground, on a relatively small verge. Note that this was only the preparation crew, not the form-workers or concreters.

• 14 Individual Council Employees
• 4 Large Trucks
• 3 with large trailers
• 2 Utes
• A Bobcat
• A Front End Loader

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Still happens now - just one ward gets looked after much more than the others,

Never seen that unless you got a town centre where you would expect it, but going back to what Ralley Sport mentioned in his previous posts, it is Apathy that is your big problem with council actions.

[CyberWasp]

Well it looks like I'm screwed....

[Citroënbender]

Not unlike my place or several others I know of.

[aussiblue]

CB I thought you or a relative of yours might have moved in around the corner from me at 29 Hope Road Bibra Lake WA; check it out on Google Maps or Google Earth. And this is after he cut his Citroen 2CV fleet by at least 60%. CB heaven. There are still a couple in the carport behind the van too.

[Sprintey]

Magnificent yard Cyberwasp. I spy a BMW there for added class.

One of my favourite places on the farm was ironically the 'tip'. There, lay FJ, FB, HK, HT, HG, HQ utes, a HQ sedan and an AP6. They lay on drums, partly dismantled or otherwise, and if a part was needed, a trip up to the tip could often find it for one of the running 'farm rockets'. Next doors farm had XM, XP, XR, XT utes and a Mainline ute which was a sight to see.

[Franco Cozzo]

Someone on the ground in Casey giving updates on the situation there

[Swordie]

“A man's home is his castle”.

[cosworthfreak]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Someone on the ground in Casey giving updates on the situation there

Was going to post that myself. Some interesting additional info in the ‘fine print’. I continue to believe this is more than purely trying to control suburban wrecking yards, it’s an attack on any automotive based recreation or interest. Permit for a boat (registered or not). Do you race go-karts? Need a permit to store that stuff. etc, etc

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cosworthfreak

Was going to post that myself. Some interesting additional info in the ‘fine print’. I continue to believe this is more than purely trying to control suburban wrecking yards, it’s an attack on any automotive based recreation or interest. Permit for a boat (registered or not). Do you race go-karts? Need a permit to store that stuff. etc, etc

Yep, there's tacit support for this amongst the community as well, no one likes car enthusiasts, plus Melbourne and it's shitful 'progressive' hive mind, add in the current war on American utes that Yarra City Council is waging and it'll scope creep and it'll be used flat out in neighbour disputes or real estate agents trying to sell a clients property.

Have a family member who lives in 'Crimebourne', you want to improve the amenity of the neighbourhood, carpet bomb the joint like Dresden during WWII and start again from scratch

Half the joints built on a dodgy reclaimed tip, would be like Melton City Council complaining about people with too many cars ruining the amenity of the joint, they've got way bigger fish to fry before they go there.

You can see the attitude of local government here, this one last year's from City of Yarra is a laugh, check out the language used:

‘You need to be dealt with’: Yarra Council votes in favour of crackdown on ‘idiots’ owning huge utes

People who own giant utes and SUVs in the city have been branded “absolute idiots” who “need to be dealt with”, as a council votes to advance an Australia-first crackdown.

Councillor Stephen Jolly, who moved several amendments calling for more data, said that “if you live in Fitzroy or Collingwood or Richmond and you buy a Hummer you’re an absolute idiot and you need to be dealt with”.

But he noted that Yarra was “the most progressive council in Australia” and “I’m sure the stats would prove that we have fewer oversized vehicles ... than any other municipality in Victoria”.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...fd7a3a46b6ce0f

One council gets ideas and the others start following