new Ford website dedicated to BF - Page 2

The MaDDeSTMaN · 13-09-2005, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

Would someone be able to post up the wallpapers because I can't get them to work. It looks like they are opening them up in a seperate window, and then the window just closes. It's really annoying. Cheers

No problem:
Falcon
Falcon ute
Fairlane
Territory

There you go

Dezza · 13-09-2005, 12:35 AM

Thanks a lot for that

AUIII XR8 MAN · 13-09-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_o

Looks good... however on the front page it says the turbo engine is 254.... not 245.

I notice that aswell. No Power upgrade for the XR8.

Iphido · 13-09-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

JEM

Awesome. These are the modifications Ford should have done. My personal list of Falcon improvements not yet implimented is now getting quite small.

Iphido · 13-09-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

nice site, but there ain't many changes for the new BF...

Heres a more complete list of what we currently know for the Xr6 -> Ghia

This would be most of the changes. There might be a few more yet to come. Its pretty significant. Ford have spend the money on real improvements not just visual changes.

BF XR6 & XR6 Turbo
New sports front bumper
New tail lamps
New 17" alloy wheel
New optional 18" alloy wheel
New shifter with optional six-speed automatic transmission
New soft-feel door grab handles with satin chrome inserts
New Liquid Metal finish on Interior Command Centre fascia, centre console and rear air vent register
New seat fabrics and trim inserts
New paint colours: Toxic, Bionic, Fantasy and Déjà Vu
New Dynamic stability control (ESP) standard with CBC
New quieter cabin through use of lofted outer dash, bitumastic pads and absorptive liners.
New quieter "smart alternator" which also improves fuel efficency
New 26% better sealing
New performance brakes standard on Turbo, with 322x28 and 328x26 rotors.
New 245Kw/480Nm turbo engine
New 6 speed manual on XR6
New 190Kw XR6 engine
New quieter exhaust on 190kw I6

BF XR8
New sports front bumper
New tail lamps
New 18" alloy wheel
New optional 17" alloy wheel
New shifter with optional six-speed automatic transmission
New soft-feel door grab handles with satin chrome inserts
New Liquid Metal finish on Interior Command Centre fascia, centre console and rear air vent register
New seat fabrics and trim inserts
New paint colours: Toxic, Bionic, Fantasy and Déjà Vu
New Dynamic stability control (ESP) standard with CBC
New quieter cabin through use of lofted outer dash, bitumastic pads and absorptive liners.
New quieter "smart alternator" which also improves fuel efficency
New 26% better sealing
New performance brakes standard, with 322x28 and 328x26 rotors.

BF Fairmont
New front bumper New tail lamps New 16" alloy wheel Six-way power driver's seat
New shifter with optional V8 engine and six-speed automatic transmission
New soft-feel door grab handles with satin chrome inserts
New Titanium Stone Metallic finish on Interior Command Centre fascia, centre console, cupholder door and rear air vent register
New Ruby Mahogany woodgrain finishes
New seat fabrics and trim inserts
New paint colours: Kashmir, Wired and Déjà Vu
New Dynamic stability control (ESP) standard with CBC
New quieter cabin through use of lofted outer dash, bitumastic pads and absorptive liners.
New quieter "smart alternator" which also improves fuel efficency
New 26% better sealing
New performance brakes standard with V8, with 322x28 and 328x26 rotors.
New Quieter exhaust on I6 and V8
New 190kw I6 and 230 kw V8 engines

BF Fairmont Ghia
New front bumper
New tail lamps
New 17" alloy wheel
Chrome strip in body-side protection moulds
Fog lights (replace cornering lamps)
Chrome fog light surrounds
Chrome strip in lower grille
Eight-way power driver's seat with memory
New shifter with six-speed automatic transmission
New soft-feel door grab handles with satin chrome inserts
New Liquid Metal finish on Interior Command Centre fascia, centre console, cupholder door and rear air vent register
New Rabbit Rose woodgrain finishes New seat fabrics and trim inserts New paint colours: Kashmir, Wired and Déjà Vu
New Dynamic stability control (ESP) standard with CBC
New quieter cabin through use of lofted outer dash, bitumastic pads and absorptive liners.
New quieter "smart alternator" which also improves fuel efficency
New 26% better sealing
New performance brakes standard with V8, with 322x28 and 328x26 rotors.
New Quieter exhaust on I6 and V8
New 190kw I6 and 230 kw V8 engines

I belive these new brakes are based off the territories, Although the numbers given don't exactly line up with the current territories brake size. They are a pretty big improvement tho.

Donut King · 13-09-2005, 11:19 AM

there are also new monotube shocks, and revised springs to suit, saves a "whopping" 3.2kg per car for the shocks and 2kg per car for the springs...

MADDER · 13-09-2005, 12:40 PM

LINK HERE

From Autoweb

12 September, 2005

"The challenge with improving driving dynamics on the new range of Falcon and Territory models was to improve on the high standards we had already set. By incorporating a host of new sophisticated, state of the art systems and latest technology hardware, the BF Falcon and SY Territory provide significant improvements in comfort, stability and safety."
- Stephan Presser, Vehicle Dynamics Manager
Ford Australia will continue to stretch its lead in the vehicle dynamics race when the BF Falcon and SY Territory range goes on sale in October.

"The BA Falcon and SX Territory set a new benchmark in driving dynamics for local manufacturers and we've built on that impressive foundation to deliver a vehicle with even higher levels of handling, precision and comfort with the launch of BF Falcon and SY Territory," said Ford Product and Development Vice President Trevor Worthington.

"Every sedan and wagon in the range benefits from the improvements to vehicle dynamics, offering customers a plusher, more refined driving experience with even higher levels of grip and control.

"We have also incorporated the very latest in chassis control systems – including the first application of Dynamic Stability Control in an Australian-manufactured V8 and on vehicles with manual transmission - adding to the already high levels of active safety already built into each Falcon and Territory.

"In tandem with the powertrain updates, including the first six-speed automatic transmission on an Australian vehicle, it adds up to the best vehicles we've ever produced providing customers with a car offering outstanding performance, refinement, economy and safety."

Dynamic Stability Control

As part of its drive to stay at the forefront of local automotive manufacturing, the Dynamic Stability Control programme, which debuted on the award-winning Territory AWD, will now be available on selected Falcon sedans and RWD versions of Territory.

"Customers will benefit enormously from the thousands of hours' work devoted by Ford engineers to the rear-wheel drive DSC application.

"Working hand in hand with experts from the Bosch Automotive Chassis Systems Division, we have calibrated a unique RWD application of DSC designed to improve active safety levels and provide peace of mind motoring," said Presser.

DSC will be available on RWD versions of Territory, on all Fairlane variants, on Fairmont Ghia, XR6 Turbo and XR8 sedans.

How does it work?

DSC combines the advantages of Ford's Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) and Traction Control System (TCS) and multiplies the benefits of both.

"The best protection against accidents is to avoid them completely and stability control utilises the latest technology from Bosch to provide Falcon and Territory with a locally engineered vehicle stability control system.

"DSC is designed to help maintain stability when the vehicle approaches its physical limits, through programmed intervention in the braking system and powertrain or a combination of both."

Presser said DSC worked in tandem with ABS – which prevents the wheels from locking when the brakes are applied – and TCS, which limits wheel spin during acceleration.

"Traction control ensures the vehicle remains controllable under heavy acceleration that can occur taking off on slippery roads, negotiating a hill or accelerating out of a corner.

"Traction control brakes the driven wheel, which shows a tendency to spin, and adapts the engine torque to obtain maximum traction. The brake control is known as ABD (Automatic Brake Differential) and avoids loss of forward momentum through spinning wheels while maintaining lateral grip.”

Presser explained ABD was included in all BF Falcon and SY Territory models fitted with TCS and DSC.

“Sensors located at each wheel calculate the slip of each driven wheel and initiate traction control if slip levels are deemed excessive.

“Consequently, traction control intervenes on the rear wheels of a Falcon or RWD Territory or on all four wheels on the AWD version of Territory.”

The system continually monitors driver input via communication with the Electronic Throttle Control. As soon as the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) detects a deviation from desired wheel speeds, the speed of the spinning wheel is automatically reduced by brake intervention, without any action on the part of the driver.

If the system calculates more intervention is required, the ECU intervenes via an electronic throttle valve actuator to reduce excess engine torque by retarding spark.

The final level of engine intervention occurs by cutting fuel flow.

Presser described DSC as the next generation in driving aids, employing the vehicle's braking and engine control system as a tool for 'controlling ' the vehicle by mitigating vehicle skid.

"When DSC assumes operation it makes use of the existing braking system. The basic function of the brakes – to decelerate or stop the vehicle – is enhanced as stability control maintains the vehicle's stability and desired course."

DSC incorporates three vital elements in addition to the traction control system hardware – a steering wheel angle sensor, a lateral acceleration sensor and a rotational yaw rate sensor.

"The steering wheel sensor constantly monitors steering wheel angle, or the driver's intended direction of travel. The yaw and lateral acceleration sensors track the vehicle's rotation around its vertical axis and its lateral motion.

"DSC is constantly working in the background, monitoring all its sensors 25 times a second, to check the driver's steering wheel position, throttle pedal position, whether the driver is braking, and where the vehicle is actually going.

"By comparing the actual measured yaw rate with a calculated desired yaw rate, the system is able to intervene early enough to reduce the risk of unwanted skids and potential loss of control.

"Specific braking intervention is then directed at individual wheels – such as the inner rear to counter under steer, or the outer front during over steer."

DSC also modulates engine output to reduce wheel spin and vehicle speed when necessary.

Presser said despite the inherent safety built into DSC, the system could not defy the laws of physics.

"DSC significantly enhances the safety window in which the driver can operate the car, but it cannot perform miracles.

"It is an incredibly useful and practical driving aid with enormous potential to reduce the possibility of an accident, often without the driver noticing it has happened.

"For example, if the driver approaches a bend that tightens more sharply than expected, the driver will suddenly turn the wheel in the intended direction of turn, but may be carrying too much speed to safely negotiate the turn.

"Or, if a driver swerves rapidly to avoid colliding with an object or another vehicle on the road, the vehicle may not respond quickly enough to following the desired path, or may over-respond, resulting in oversteer.

"In both examples dynamic stability control will immediately notice the angle of steering wheel input and the direction of travel and brake the appropriate wheel to help keep the vehicle stable and under control.

"It represents a genuine application of active safety that has the potential to significantly reduce the occurrence of single vehicle accidents."

All chassis control systems work constantly in the background, monitoring the need for intervention at astonishing speed. DSC monitors its sensors 25 times per second, TCS 50 times per second and ABS 200 times per second.

Presser said driving conditions, which may activate DSC, include:

Taking a turn too fast
Moving quickly to avoid an accident, pedestrian or obstacle
Hitting a patch of ice
Changing lanes on a rutted road
Entering a snow-free road from a snow-covered side street, or vice versa
Entering a paved road from a gravel road, or vice versa
Hitting a curb or bump while turning
Driving on slick surfaces
Unique calibrations

The addition of DSC on Falcon and RWD Territory has resulted in no less than four unique groups of DSC calibration, developed for Australian road conditions.

“Due to the variety of engines, transmissions and body styles a total of 10 different DSC calibrations have been developed.

"Realising unique customer wants and the character of our product line-up, we have developed four families of tuning, ranging from comfort to sports, for Territory, Fairlane, Fairmont Ghia and XR6 Turbo / XR8.

"Each calibration provides the full functionality of DSC, but the intervention thresholds have been carefully tuned to produce a system perfectly suited to the vehicle.

"On Fairlane Ghia, Fairlane G8 and LTD the DSC interventions are early and subtle, in keeping with the character of the car.

"Fairmont Ghia has a calibration where DSC interventions are slightly later than the LWB version, in line with the sportier image of the car.

"On XR6 Turbo and XR8, interventions do not occur too early, adding to the sporty nature of the vehicle and ensuring the driver feels in control, but still benefits from the significant safety improvement DSC provides."

"It is all achieved through careful attention to detail, tuning of the appropriate system parameters – out of several thousands available to the calibration engineers – and delivers a car with the appropriate character in line with customer expectations,” Presser said.

Performance brakes

In line with the significantly improved acceleration performance of BF Falcons with the new ZF six-speed automatic transmission, Ford will introduce a new performance brake package that will be standard on vehicles fitted with turbo or V8 engines.

The larger diameter brakes are based on the specifications used for the higher braking demands of Territory.

They will be standard on XR6 Turbo and XR8 sedan and ute, Falcon XT with 3V V8, Fairmont with 3V V8, Fairmont Ghia with 3V V8, Fairlane G8 and LTD.

Introducing the new performance brake package has eliminated the optional brake package that was an option on BA Falcons.

"This is an excellent brake package for these performance and premium vehicles, providing even more reliable and stable brake performance, with excellent thermal capacity" said Presser.

"Testing of the new performance brakes was conducted under the grueling AMS testing regime, which involves 10 high speed braking manoeuvres.

"The new brakes performed demonstrably better, with temperatures in the 10th stop reduced by 15 per cent for front brakes and 22 per cent for rear brakes, ensuring increased fade resistance and improved stopping performance."

Measuring 322 mm x 28 mm, the front disc on the performance package is 24 mm bigger than the standard brake disc.

The rear disc has increased 25 mm to now measure 328 mm x 26 mm.

Both front and rear discs feature a new pillar vented rotor design, which delivers improved cooling performance.

All other BF Falcons continue to use the twin-piston caliper front and single piston caliper rear disc brakes, which debuted on the BA Falcon.

“The braking system is well suited to the rest of the BF Falcon range, offering high resistance to heat build-up and excellent pedal feel," Presser said.

ABS upgrade

The BF Falcon and SY Territory will incorporate the latest version of ABS.

ABS 8.0 (previously 5.3) will be standard on all BF Falcon sedans, offering improved stopping distance and low speed braking performance on slippery surfaces by checking vehicle conditions 200 times per second.

The feature will be standard on all Falcon XR utes, on RTV and optional on XL/XLS utes.

"ABS provides greatly improved control during emergency braking manoeuvres or when avoiding obstacles on the road.

"This latest version is less intrusive to the driver, with a more gradual pulsing feeling through the brake pedal when the ABS system is cycling.

"We have worked closely with Bosch to improve the surface recognition of this latest ABS calibration. We have tuned its gravel road logic for better performance so it caters for the unique conditions drivers can be confronted with on Australian roads."

Presser said ABS came standard with Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD), which automatically distributes brake pressure between front and rear wheels to ensure optimum brake pressure, regardless of vehicle load conditions.

"This ensures the shortest possible stopping distance, while helping maintain stability of the rear end of the car, even under emergency braking conditions.

"It all means the right level of ABS intervention is induced, precisely when the driver needs it," Presser said.

Traction control upgrade

The Traction Control System (TCS) on BF Falcon and SY Territory is also the latest version available.

TCS 8.0 will be standard on all Territory versions and all petrol-engined Falcon sedans, wagons and XR utes, incorporating all the functionality of the ABS upgrade.

"This latest version of TCS controls the amount of wheel spin and helps avoid vehicle instability when accelerating in corners or on loose gravel surfaces.

"It's another vital component in providing peace of mind motoring," said Presser.

Cornering Brake Control

All SY Territory and BF Falcon models with DSC also feature Cornering Brake Control (CBC), which recognizes if a vehicle is in an oversteer situation during a braking manoeuvre.

"It instantly distributes brake pressure between the left and right wheels to provide the shortest possible stopping distance and helps keep the vehicle on course when cornering while braking," Presser said.

New tyres

Prestige customers will appreciate the levels of grip, comfort and refinement evident in a new 17-inch tyre specifically developed for Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane Ghia, Fairlane G8 and LTD.

"Ford worked closely with the team at Goodyear to develop the new Excellence 225/50 R17 94V tyre for the BF Falcon programme.

“The Excellence tyre features an asymmetric tread pattern and represents the new generation of luxury sports tyres developed by Goodyear. The new tyre has been optimised for performance under all conditions.

"In addition to increased levels of driving comfort, refinement and lower cabin noise levels, the new Goodyear also promises an improvement in tyre life."

Presser said the move of Fairlane Ghia and LTD to 17-inch wheels and tyres would enhance the already high performance levels of those cars and offer an improved vehicle stance.

Two new tyres have also been developed for the BF Falcon commercial range.

XLS SSB utes will feature a new silica compound Dunlop 225/55 R16 95W tyre, comprising the same tread pattern as the SP Sport 3000A used on XR utes.

"This tyre offers an advanced driving experience, improving levels of ride, handling, grip, steering and braking."

A new silica-based 215/60 R16 99H tyre has been constructed for use on the XL ¾ tonne utility, developed to meet advancements in load rating requirements.

"This tyre features excellent levels of steering and handling characteristics, improvements in grip and quietness in conjunction with high load carrying capacity," said Presser.

MADDER · 13-09-2005, 12:41 PM

LINK HERE

From Autoweb

12 September, 2005

"Refinement isn't just about silencing the car. It's the science of removing the undesirable vehicles noises, leaving the driver with quality sounds they like to hear. We took this approach to the BF Falcon and SY Territory programme to produce the quietest, smoothest vehicles we've ever engineered."
- Tim Hosking, Ford Australia Vehicle Refinement Supervisor
Ford Australia today released details of the quietest, most refined vehicles to roll off its Broadmeadows assembly line.

"It only takes a few minutes behind the wheel to appreciate the outstanding levels of refinement built into this car, from the entry level XT right through to the LTD," said Product and Development Vice President Trevor Worthington.

"Attention to detail has taken what was already a very quiet vehicle and produced a vehicle boasting superb levels of refinement."

Vehicle Refinement Supervisor Tim Hosking said the team worked on achieving two goals with the BF Falcon and SY Territory programme.

"We wanted to reduce overall sound levels in the cabin, particularly targeting high frequency annoyance noises, allowing the driver to hear the pure note of the engine.

"The end result of very careful attention to detail is a vehicle that is up to six decibels quieter during wide open throttle acceleration.

"A 10 decibel reduction is approximately half as loud to the human ear, so customers will definitely notice and appreciate a six decibel improvement.

"On part throttle acceleration, the I6 engine in Territory and Falcon is three decibels quieter, while road noise sound pressure levels have been lowered by up to one and a half decibels.

"We also worked hard on improving the articulation index, or the ability to easily converse with passengers, and achieved an overall nine per cent improvement in this area," Hosking said.

"Research shows customers can perceive a two per cent improvement, making this enhancement significant in terms of producing a noticeably quieter car."

Lofted outer dash

A new feature contributing to the improved refinement levels in all BF Falcons and SY Territory models is the inclusion of a lofted outer dash, previously seen only on expensive European cars.

"The new outer dash is a two-piece part that works as an absorptive barrier to attenuate broad band noise from the engine. The lofted outer dash works in conjunction with the dash panel and firewall to help insulate the driver and passengers, particularly from high frequency annoyance noises.

"As a result, Falcon and Territory are significantly quieter during start-up, idle, acceleration and shut down.

"Fitting the new lofted outer dash was a significant factor in improving the articulation index in BF Falcon and SY Territory, which translates to a much quieter car for our customers,” Hosking said.

Bitumastic pads

Further quietness has been built into the BF Falcon and SY Territory with the optimisation of sound dampening bitumastic pads.

“Bitumastic pads are added to the body to provide damping for low and mid frequency noises, making for a quieter car,” said Hosking.

“The pads act as a mass damper to reduce structural response to vibrations generated by road conditions and reduce the transmission of these noises to the occupants.

"During development of the BF Falcon, the team ran designed experiments to optimise the position and size of the bitumastic pad package.

"As a result a BF XT, Futura or XR now boasts equivalent performance to a BA Fairmont Ghia. The new BF Fairmont Ghia has been further enhanced, with a sound dampening pack targeting rear seat quietness.

“Customers will notice a reduction in overall road noise at cruising speeds, particularly in the rear of the car,” Hosking said.

Absorptive roof-liner

BF Falcon now uses an absorptive roof-liner to reduce reflected noise in the cabin of ute, sedan, Fairlane and wagon.

Hosking explained the new treatment followed the same principle as an acoustically lined recording studio to improve cabin ambience, delivering lower levels of wind, road and engine noise.

Body structural improvements

Numerous body structure improvements have been made to further refine the BF Falcon and SY Territory.

Hosking explained these upgrades reduced the sensitivity of the optimised body structure parts, adding to the impressive refinement levels of the BF Falcon and SY Territory.

“Two of the important upgrades we made were the addition of a reinforcing box section to the transmission cross member and a centre bearing body reinforcement.

“The box section ties the cross member to the tunnel rail system, reducing sensitivity to structural engine vibration.

“Similarly, the reinforcement bracket at the centre bearing provides robustness against driveline and engine vibration, further reducing vibration transmission.”

Hosking explained the structural upgrades reduce body sensitivity to powertrain vibrational energy by a factor of three to five times.

Further refinement was added by retuning and redesigning the engine and transmission mounts, delivering a reduction in interior noise levels.

The main spring element in the engine mount has been optimised for high engine loads and the spring element in the transmission mounts redesigned to reduce unwanted responses.

“Engine mounts now perform much better when the vehicle is under heavy acceleration, reducing the potential for unwanted harshness.

“The new transmission mounts deliver improved isolation to further reduce engine vibrations being transmitted into the cabin, with a further one decibel reduction in interior noise levels,” said Hosking.

Retuned exhaust systems

Careful retuning of the exhaust systems on both the Barra 190 I6 and Barra 230 V8 delivers quieter cars with an improvement in the quality of the exhaust note of both engines.

The Barra 190 features a new front resonator and retuned centre and rear mufflers, while the Barra 230 now boasts a dedicated rear muffler with larger diameter pipes.

In addition to these upgrades, all body side and exhaust side hangers have been redesigned and upgraded to isolate muffler vibration from the body.

“The new Barra 190 resonator provides an extra treatment step for exhaust gases, dramatically lowering the 80-100 hertz resonance.

“The new resonator acoustically decouples the rear of the exhaust system from high frequency acoustic pulses, lowering drive-by noise levels and further reducing interior noise levels for the customer.

Hosking said the new Barra 230 exhaust system was tailored to improve the performance of the smooth revving V8 engine.

“At BA, the 3v V8 shared the same rear muffler design as the I6 engine.

“By engineering a dedicated V8 version, we have lowered back pressure levels to liberate more power from the engine and enhance the exhaust note.

“Customer feedback told us that V8 customers wanted to hear and enjoy the note of their engine.

“The new dedicated Barra 230 exhaust system clearly delivers on that customer want,” Hosking said.

‘Smart’ alternator

Airborne noise on the BF Falcon and SY Territory has been reduced with the addition of a new ‘smart’ alternator.

Standard on all BF Falcon and SY Territory models, the new alternator delivers a higher output, allowing lower rotational speeds and correspondingly lower fan speeds for a reduction in noise levels. The engine control module predicts loading and ramps in alternator operation to improve idle stability.

Hosking explained the new alternator was chosen for its ability to improve fuel economy and deliver better idle properties.

“Ultimately it provides a two-fold benefit for the customer. Fuel economy has been improved, as well as refinement levels. It’s a win-win for the customer.”

Static sealing improvements

“Static sealing is the discipline of ensuring body sheet metal and trim components seal the cabin against noise generated from the engine, driveline, road and wind.

“We placed significant emphasis on this part of the BF Falcon design and manufacturing processes, improving body leakage sealing levels up to 23 per cent compared to BA Falcon.

“Using new sealing techniques we pioneered with Territory, BF Falcon customers will notice a dramatically quieter car as a result, with a 5 decibel reduction in high frequency road noise at cruising speeds.

“A reduction of this amplitude means a much quieter car and makes it much easier for occupants inside the vehicle to hear each other.

“Our body static sealing is now approaching levels previously only available in imported cars much more expensive than Falcon and Territory,” Hosking said.

dogbreath_48 · 13-09-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

* Traction control is standard on all petrol models, including Utes.

On all petrol models eh, as opposed to? Could this mean a surprise diesel release? surely they couldn't have kept it a secret?

-Stu

Donut King · 13-09-2005, 04:34 PM

nope, they have the egas engine remember

dogbreath_48 · 13-09-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut King

nope, they have the egas engine remember

....i'm an idiot. got all excited for a tick. thought i'd burst a big bubble...

Donut King · 13-09-2005, 05:03 PM

you're actually the second person I have corrected raising that point today, so don't feel too bad ;)

RED_EL_XR8 · 13-09-2005, 05:24 PM

Without hundreds of pro/anti gas crusades, can anyone explain why traction control would not be included for E-Gas? Only reason I can figure is to match a price point.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-09-2005, 05:27 PM

Egas isnt available with traction control.. not even as an option.

Donut King · 13-09-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Without hundreds of pro/anti gas crusades, can anyone explain why traction control would not be included for E-Gas? Only reason I can figure is to match a price point.

Gas doesn't produce enough power for wheelspin?? (jokes people, I have nothing against gas)

My guess would be that you can't get the fuel delivery to be cut by the ecu if required for the traction control to work.
But then I guess it could apply the brakes as required, but if there was enough wheelspin to need a fuel cutout, then there would be issues with it working consistently & predictably so it is left out?

**Bluehoon** · 13-09-2005, 05:40 PM

DK, you are pretty close.

Traction control, (when engaged) cuts fuel, and retards the timing, and depending on speed, clamps the brakes.

Problem is, if you cut gas (fuel) and retard ignition to get traction, you get a backfire..

Backfire and gas, not good. Bye bye air box and gas bits.....

Very similar damage.

Remember the plugs and lead dramas on E-series gas cars, and the blow outs from them, same thing with traction control.....

Hope this makes sense..

The MaDDeSTMaN · 13-09-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut King

My guess would be that you can't get the fuel delivery to be cut by the ecu if required for the traction control to work.
But then I guess it could apply the brakes as required, but if there was enough wheelspin to need a fuel cutout, then there would be issues with it working consistently & predictably so it is left out?

That would be my semi-educated guess why too.

RED_EL_XR8 · 13-09-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut King

Gas doesn't produce enough power for wheelspin?? (jokes people, I have nothing against gas)

My guess would be that you can't get the fuel delivery to be cut by the ecu if required for the traction control to work.
But then I guess it could apply the brakes as required, but if there was enough wheelspin to need a fuel cutout, then there would be issues with it working consistently & predictably so it is left out?

Plausible! I thought the BA TC worked mainly with Brakes & Ignition, but hold the ignition long enough and i can see your point.

JPFS1 · 13-09-2005, 05:41 PM

It's possible that it's also related to the drive-by-wire config of the petrol engines that may not be on the e-gas engines?? There for the e-gas and petrol engines using differing ECU's and config's with e-gas not able to accomodate the advanced communication systems??

**Bluehoon** · 13-09-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

It's possible that it's also related to the drive-by-wire config of the petrol engines that may not be on the e-gas engines?? There for the e-gas and petrol engines using differing ECU's and config's with e-gas not able to accomodate the advanced communication systems??

The only reason for no traction control, is that is causes backfires through retarding timing and cutting fuel.

Drive by wire and the rest have nothing to do with it.
As a guide, commonwhores have trakky control and they were cable up till VZ.....

JPFS1 · 13-09-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

The only reason for no traction control, is that is causes backfires through retarding timing and cutting fuel.

Drive by wire and the rest have nothing to do with it.
As a guide, commonwhores have trakky control and they were cable up till VZ.....

cool... was just a stab in the dark really..

Just thought it may have been dpwn to Ford not developing because of the potential differing engine management systems.

Your explanation sounds good to me..

:

Donut King · 13-09-2005, 05:47 PM

holden have sequential vapour gas injection coming too

**Bluehoon** · 13-09-2005, 05:52 PM

Yes, the LGP systems are interesting.

The main differences between the EGAS donk and the petrol ones are:

Higher compression ratio
Advanced timing
no traction control
different injectors / fuel system.

And thats it.

Same ECU / MAF / MAP and all the rest.
Same bottom end, same everything.

There from memory, i may be wrong, some different porting on the head....
Can't remember.

but, glad to help!

:

Fairlane · 13-09-2005, 06:06 PM

I think the E gas also has XR6 Turbo valve springs and hardened valve seats. Yeh but rest of it is pretty similiar.

The TC explanation seems right to me. I was hoping for Sequential Gas Injection on the BF, guess ill have to wait and see.

dogbreath_48 · 13-09-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Same ECU / MAF / MAP and all the rest.
Same bottom end, same everything.

doesn't the F6 (phoon) use LPG conrods? Surely the F6 doesn't use higher compression - so must just be stronger?

-Stu

**Bluehoon** · 13-09-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogbreath_48

doesn't the F6 (phoon) use LPG conrods? Surely the F6 doesn't use higher compression - so must just be stronger?

-Stu

The Phoon / Turbo have different rods, pistons, rings, and the like yes.
Along with Valves etc etc...

I do not know if is used on the EGAS motor. Given the bottom $$$ entry motor, i would bet it is the petrol based (not boost based) bottom end.

dogbreath_48 · 13-09-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

The Phoon / Turbo have different rods, pistons, rings, and the like yes.
Along with Valves etc etc...

I do not know if is used on the EGAS motor. Given the bottom $$$ entry motor, i would bet it is the petrol based (not boost based) bottom end.

yeah that's what i was thinking - but more along the lines of the phoon getting the up-spec LPG hand me downs, not vice versa!

By the sounds of it, the e-gas cars are a big leap away from your average conversion (even if they're not dual fuel)

**Bluehoon** · 13-09-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogbreath_48

yeah that's what i was thinking - but more along the lines of the phoon getting the up-spec LPG hand me downs, not vice versa!

By the sounds of it, the e-gas cars are a big leap away from your average conversion (even if they're not dual fuel)

The EGAS ,motors, cannot be duel fuelled.
Yet i believe you can dual fuel the petrol donk.

dogbreath_48 · 13-09-2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

The EGAS ,motors, cannot be duel fuelled.
Yet i believe you can dual fuel the petrol donk.

yeah that's what i meant. lack of injectors sees to that, i believe.

ltd · 13-09-2005, 09:56 PM

Not related to Gas, but I'd agree with most posters that all though the changes to the BF do not appear to be significant on the outside, Ford really has done a great job with the development of the car.

I'm seriously considering buying a new LTD to replace the AUII, because I can't wait for a second hand one to become available.
If they had a chance to finally beat Holden, I think this car would be the one to do it.
Bravo Ford.