BF XR8 price puts it out of market

[EBII Fairmont]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

People in glass houses, my friend....

1998:


2000:


2003:


2005:


Having poked a little fun at the completely uninspired designs coming from the brains trust down at GMH, i think you raise a good point.

But you are talking about very small amounts of money. Let's consider the number of new car purchasees whose budget is so marginal that an additional $1300 prices them out of the market. If you can throw 50k at a car, you can throw 52k at a car. A euro 3 compliant is BF V8 is more than a stone's throw away from the BA and indeed - in a completely different league to the 6.0L pushrod V8 platform of its GMH equal.

Let us reserve final judgement for the VE. Let us examine the price differential when sophisticated engines, modern transmissions and EURO 3 compliant emissions systems are integrated into the commodore range.

2.6% guys - make a note of that number.

I totally agree. If your gonna blow 50g on a car,what is $2,000 really? At least the ford is an updated design. Holden still haven't changed looks since 1998 with the VT. Don't get me wrong, the VT was a nice vehicle, but recent models look like there has been a lack of effort. It's like they have ripped bits and pieces off other cars and used other's ideas to make their own. The AU may have coped slack for being ugly and all, but at least it was purely designed by Ford. When the figures come out, they will do all the talking. But i personally don't believe people will be cutting themselves short of $2000 to get a BF XR8.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by jmc-007

Well looking at the VE eval cars from the Holden Employee's discount advert. It doesnt look much different to a VZ opps i mean VT :

I dont believe that is the VE in there despite the checker covers. This topic was covered in length in LS1, even the add was found, disentegrated into parts, including freeze framed, and you could not say that was a VE. Trust me the VE is a whole new bodyshape, to claim it will look like a VT or VZ, well, the blue blood runs thick in you grasshopper ;)

[jmc-007]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

And the reason i state the LS1 is easily modifiable because i have a wee bit of experience with it. Its cheap and can get great gains.
As for the Boss i wouldnt know. I dont pretend to know. For all i know it may be just as easy or cheap, but for me its a case of sticking to what i know, and for me the LS1 has plenty of go for the price of mods you can do for it.

What does this have to do with anything honestly ?? :lookedat:

[JC]

Holden will hold the price (or heavily discount - employee discount) their product as they are in trouble all through the market. They are getting rid of 8000 employees, where Ford are probably putting on additional employees to cope with demand. This is the reverse of the situation from a few years ago, so Ford can afford to charge an appropriate amount for the new models, while Holden need the cash and will try to sell at all costs. $50K for a car is not unreasonable in todays market and a grand or 2 more is not going to price many out of an XR8 and into an older SS. ie, if you can afford the 50, you can afford the extra.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by EBII Fairmont

I totally agree. If your gonna blow 50g on a car,what is $2,000 really? At least the ford is an updated design. Holden still haven't changed looks since 1998 with the VT. Don't get me wrong, the VT was a nice vehicle, but recent models look like there has been a lack of effort. It's like they have ripped bits and pieces off other cars and used other's ideas to make their own. The AU may have coped slack for being ugly and all, but at least it was purely designed by Ford. When the figures come out, they will do all the talking. But i personally don't believe people will be cutting themselves short of $2000 to get a BF XR8.

You are right, 2k is nothing if your blowing upwards of 50k
And the VY/VZ is a lot different to the VT shape wise. Uglier but different!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

I would not count inflation as an argument for for vs against in buying a Falcon, would you?

That doesnt make any sense, the discussion was about justifying the 2.6% rise in price for the new model....... not whether you should or shouldnt buy a Falcon.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That doesnt make any sense, the discussion was about justifying the 2.6% rise in price for the new model....... not whether you should or shouldnt buy a Falcon.

Lets say you are right and ill pose it as a question. When comparing an XR8 that you wanted to buy, against any car in the lot, would you consider inflation as a factor that would sway you into buying or not purchasing the xr8?

[VZSS250]

For those noting my nickname, each time I buy a car, I consider both the XR8 and SS and thats why the price hike is annoying. Because now its not about which car is better, I now have to consider price also.

While the price increase may only be 2.6% and is fairly in line with inflation, it is nonetheless over $2k more than the SSZ and probably $4k more on road when you account for Holden's current discounting.

That means you have to work a full extra month to get into an XR8, or two months for an XR8 of equal spec to an SSZ.

Lets not talk percentages, lets talk how many days work goes into buying each car and what we get back in return.

I concour with everyone regarding the $1300 increase. The gearbox transforms the car, performs better, quieter and smoother.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by jmc-007

What does this have to do with anything honestly ?? :lookedat:

Again, go back and have a good read at what im saying. Im trying to justify why i would pick the SSZ. Its the devil i know.

[MADDER]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

The BF XR8 price has risen by $1,300 to more than $52K and now cannot compete with the VZ SSZ at $49,990.

So we are expected to pay $1,300 extra for what? A new bumper? New seat fabric? Supposedly better fuel economy?

Good one my friend, drop a mis-information bomb and run.

Lets straighten out some facts before this thread gets any more out of hand.

BA XR8 Pricing June 1 2003:

50,130 (5spd Manual)
51,050 (4spd Auto)

BA XR8 (MKII) Late 2004

51,275(6spd Manual)
51,275(4spd Auto)

BF XR8 Late 2005

51,330(6spd Manual)
52,580(6spd Auto)

So in fact the price rise from BA to BF is only $55 in base manual form.

As to whether the price difference between the SSZ and the XR8 is a valid one depends on your point of view.

As for the boy-racer argument I also concur that the XR6T provides that function and that the XR8 is more the grown-up, refined cruiser. That's not to say there is anything lacking in the XR6T.

Believe me, on a good stretch of highway, overtaking a roadtrain, kicking down to 3rd and keeping the boot in, there is absolutely nothing breathless about a Boss's top end!

BTW: RATT, you should've picked up the pricing mis-info before taking the bait, LOL.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Again, go back and have a good read at what im saying. Im trying to justify why i would pick the SSZ. Its the devil i know.

Which is exactly the same reason why 95% of posters here would have a first choice of XR8, what is your point?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Lets say you are right and ill pose it as a question. When comparing an XR8 that you wanted to buy, against any car in the lot, would you consider inflation as a factor that would sway you into buying or not purchasing the xr8?

If im sitting in a dealers office negotiating a BFXR8 purchase and the dealer says "im sorry but the BFXR8 is $1300 dearer than the obsolete BAXR8 because the cost of manufacturing has gone up etc but you get the new bits and pieces etc" i wouldn't bat an eyelid...... in fact id expect it to be slightly dearer if for nothing more than pure economics...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MADDER

Good one my friend, drop a mis-information bomb and run.

Lets straighten out some facts before this thread gets any more out of hand.

BA XR8 Pricing June 1 2003:

50,130 (5spd Manual)
51,050 (4spd Auto)

BA XR8 (MKII) Late 2004

51,275(6spd Manual)
51,275(4spd Auto)

BF XR8 Late 2005

51,330(6spd Manual)
52,580(6spd Auto)

So in fact the price rise from BA to BF is only $55 in base manual form.

As to whether the price difference between the SSZ and the XR8 is a valid one depends on your point of view.

As for the boy-racer argument I also concur that the XR6T provides that function and that the XR8 is more the grown-up, refined cruiser. That's not to say there is anything lacking in the XR6T.

Believe me, on a good stretch of highway, overtaking a roadtrain, kicking down to 3rd and keeping the boot in, there is absolutely nothing breathless about a Boss's top end!

BTW: RATT, you should've picked up the pricing mis-info before taking the bait, LOL.

Thankyou, its amazing how things look with all the facts, you'd have to say looking at the pricing change over a 2 year and 2 model period that Ford must be more efficient at manufacturing cars now than they were 2 years ago because that increase wouldn't even cover CPI let alone the increased specification level.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

Which is exactly the same reason why 95% of posters here would have a first choice of XR8, what is your point?

Noooooo, i was talking to JMC specifically, it seems he is missing the point of my posts.
Now im off for an hour or so, got the day off and the birds are chirpin so i will be back to no doubt a plethora of responses!

*HAndballs the red lion flag to SSBaby and the original poster for a while* :

hehe, seriously, tis a good thread.

[Fairlane]

I must admit thats quite a rise, but I think its reasonable. Ford is really trying to turn the Xr8 into a Grand Tourer and with the two 6 speeders, I think its doing well.

Besides its not the end of the world, you can always get an 230 Barra XT V8 with 6 speed and sports susp.

Originally Posted by MADDER

BTW: RATT, you should've picked up the pricing mis-info before taking the bait, LOL.

lol yes I should have. :

Good post by the way.

[WASP]

Interesting discussion.
I'm not going to sit here and rant on about the how much better value the XR8 is or isn't over the SSV. I've owned and/or driven both for extended periods of time and formed my own opinion in favor of the XR8. The SSV is an aging product by a company that's hurting in the stock yards. It has to be great value for money or no one besides die hard fans will buy it. Making it a limited edition is an old, but good tactic to move stock. While Holden are in this position the XR8 will never compete on price alone anyway. To sell the new BF XR8's, with possibly less creature comforts and sparkles, Ford will need to leverage that it's a newer model than the VZ and is technically more advanced in terms of engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes etc. If one doesn’t value those things over leather seats and limited edition badging etc, then the SSV is the obvious bargain out of the two. Personally, if the XR8 was just too much I would prefer a 6 speed auto XR6T with all the fruit for similar money..

[MITCHAY]

IMO the VT to VZ facelifts are clearly more noticeable than the BA to BF. I seriously wouldnt be able to pick the difference between a BA and BF.

The VT shape was popular so why change it a great deal. If it aint broke dont fix it, same as the BA.

The BA is obviously a popular car to start off too so there is no need to go overboard.

I think the BF though isnt so much focused on looks, as much as the new 6spd auto and whatever else.

So XR8 or SSZ? Id take the SSZ. Just personal preference.

[Polyal]

But have you driven both?

If you were seriously going to buy either one of them you would take a test drive. Then unless you care about looks alone Id be very suprised if you walked away in the SS.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Polyal

But have you driven both?

If you were seriously going to buy either one of them you would take a test drive. Then unless you care about looks alone Id be very suprised if you walked away in the SS.

To be fair I haven't driven either. Really what dealer is goin to let a P plate driver take out a spanking new V8 for a spin plus dont have the money for either. But on looks alone I love the SSZ. I have been in an XR6 and it felt very uncomfortable for me. If I did have that sort of money Id go for a Liberty GT anyway.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Yeh and ull be able to buy Six Speed Auto XR8s for $48 grand drive away soon...

Recommended retail pricing means very little in this day of age, as for holden being cheaper, i think alot of people would pay the extra 2 grand for the six speed auto over some thrashy four speed.... as for walking away from the SS that wouldnt be hard, they are a quick car and they look alright, but they still sound like a piece of tin and have poor *** suspension, they are as rough as a donkey on three legs.

[HLC]

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Yeh and ull be able to buy Six Speed Auto XR8s for $48 grand drive away soon...

Recommended retail pricing means very little in this day of age, as for holden being cheaper, i think alot of people would pay the extra 2 grand for the six speed auto over some thrashy four speed.... as for walking away from the SS that wouldnt be hard, they are a quick car and they look alright, but they still sound like a piece of tin and have poor *** suspension, they are as rough as a donkey on three legs.

.....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

To be fair I haven't driven either. Really what dealer is goin to let a P plate driver take out a spanking new V8 for a spin plus dont have the money for either. But on looks alone I love the SSZ. I have been in an XR6 and it felt very uncomfortable for me. If I did have that sort of money Id go for a Liberty GT anyway.

So if you haven't driven both what have you based your opinion or choice on? Looks alone?
I doubt anyone who's seriously looking at buying one or the other would base their purchase on looks alone..

[SunDrifter]

VZSS250. Have you ever bought a new car?

Forget about sticker prices, those are for suckers. Go to your holden dealer, and get your best price for the commode, then walk into the closest Ford dealer, tell them with holden is offering and watch them match it for you.

Don't believe me? I paid the same for my XR6 with onroads, insurance, tinted windows, mats, scuffs, bonet, head light and fog light protecters, as i would have paid for a Storm ute with no options or insureance (but onroad).

The sticker price at the time for the XR6 was $34+k and the storm was $29.990.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So if you haven't driven both what have you based your opinion or choice on? Looks alone?
I doubt anyone who's seriously looking at buying one or the other would base their purchase on looks alone..

Umm I did say looks alone in my post lol. I wouldnt look at buying either at this moment in time even If I had the money because I don't want a V8. I was just saying id go the SSZ just by looks since I havent driven either thats all.

[SSBUB]

Who said ya had to get the old 4 speed slushie anyway? What if you got an SSZ in an M6 vs the XR8 in the 5 speed (do they even do a 6speed?)...would you still go for the ford then?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Who said ya had to get the old 4 speed slushie anyway? What if you got an SSZ in an M6 vs the XR8 in the 5 speed (do they even do a 6speed?)...would you still go for the ford then?

Are you serious? If you want to be taken seriously here you'll need to do a bit of research first before posting i think.....

If the choice is to be auto then its 6sp Ford V 4spd slushbox Holden...

[SunDrifter]

to follow up 4vmans comments there SSBUB, Ford indeed do have a M6 box, its actually the same Tremec box that holdont use, except, unlike holden, Ford has done some refinement to it, to make the throws smoother (and shorter i believe).

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Are you serious? If you want to be taken seriously here you'll need to do a bit of research first before posting i think.....

If the choice is to be auto then its 6sp Ford V 4spd slushbox Holden...

I dont need to do research, it was a general question..most of my ford research is here because i drive a holden....and i wont ask you again because i know your answer but i will put it to others:

for arguments sake, what would you prefer, a MANUAL (read it again 4vman, a MANUAL) xr8 vs a MANUAL ssz

Forgetting new boxes, auto or not, its just a general question that if you were faced with this choice, would an SSZ be more appealing to the Ford Bretheran if the box's were the same? Just a general question,, putting a twist on the original post is all.