Fastest P-Plate Legal Car - Page 2

EF Futura 07 · 10-09-2007, 06:24 PM

once again a stupid rule.

forget-insurance/cost/4cyl/6cyl/turbo/8cyl

look at the facts. obviously some big nob in parliment somewhere has looked at a book. the book has a list of all cars. so what this nob has done is saw turbo or 8cyl next to the car,grabbed his $700 red pen,crossed out all the turbos and 8's, then gave the book to his receptionist and said "here print this". what he has not done is look at the specs. no im not talking about if it has an electric sunroof, of dvd players in headrest but the performance/saftey specs of the car. and this is what really pis*es me off.

ie>
banned list.

audi A4 (4cyl)1.8 turbo 0-100 in 8.5 sec
daihatsu charade (early model) 3cyl turbo about 10 sec
smart car turbo heap of crap 15.5 secs
(none of above are big vehicles therefore rate poorly in saftey (yes even the audi) only 3 stars

:

ok list.

ba/bf falcon n/a 6cyl 0-100 7.7 (auto) 7.4 (man)
vn commy 3.8 0-100 7.9 auto
bmw 330/530(same engine) 0-100 6.6 (oh, i know why this one is ok to drive. because it has 35 airbags.stupid me :togo: )
last but not least. all N/A 6cyl porches wich can do 0-100 in 5 sec

GO FIGURE!

Steffo · 10-09-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF Futura 07

ba/bf falcon n/a 6cyl 0-100 7.7 (auto) 7.4 (man)
vn commy 3.8 0-100 7.9 auto
bmw 330/530(same engine) 0-100 6.6 (oh, i know why this one is ok to drive. because it has 35 airbags.stupid me :togo: )
last but not least. all N/A 6cyl porches wich can do 0-100 in 5 sec

GO FIGURE!

Actually, every single Porsche 911 from 1963-2007 is banned. Its a "high performance six-cylinder vehicle." Same with every Boxster from 1997-2007.

The "high performance six-cylinder," benchmark seems to be 200kW.

The fastest P-Plate legal cars you can buy are...

Lotus Elise/Exige II - 1.8L 141kW, 800kg
BMW Z4 3.0si - 3.0L 195kW I6
VW Golf R32 - 3.2L 184kW V6
BMW 130i M Sport - 3.0L 195kW I6
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA - 3.2L 184kW V6
Renaultsport Clio 182 - 2.0L 131kW I4 (172 also, 124kW I4, same engine, 55kg less weight, same acceleration)

The 330i fits in there somewhere between the 130i and 147 GTA.

Best you can do Porsche wise is a 1987-1992 Porsche 944 S2. 3.0L 4-cyl 157kW. 0-100 in 6.4, 1/4 in 15.0, top whack in the 240 range. For 30k.

deathlucky · 10-09-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Even better idea by a S***box laser. Insure it, bang around for 3 years improving your insurance rating saving big dollars. Then when your off your P's you'll have 3 things
1) A decent insurance rating that will save you big dollars when you can handle a performance car
2) A clean license which goes such a long way
3) A large savings account to buy something a lot better than a VL

agreed im 18 and have had a motorcycle and im on my 3rd car i had a skyline and wrote it off i work full time and have nothing to show for it my insurance rating is 7 and i have lost 21 points because of the 8 tickets i got 4 being a and if im lucky ill get my license back end of oct i think i have learnt my leason so now ill just stick with my eb falcon

FlipXW · 10-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Lotus Elise/Exige II - 1.8L 141kW, 800kg
Funny u mentioned that. This is what my mate came over in just last week. Had his P-plates for about 6 months.

Steffo · 10-09-2007, 06:38 PM

Well if I were to modify my list it would actually read...

Elise 111R/Exige II (141kW 800kg)
Elise 111S (118kW 785kg)
Elise S (100kW, 785kg)
Elise (88kW, 675kg)

as the top four... then the rest... hehe.

4Vman · 10-09-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I don't know how it is in other states but I just fell under the stupid no V8's, Turbo and Engine Modification rules.

Therefore I had to give up my dream of a XT Fairmont 302 Windsor which did 0-100 in over 10 seconds for the non performance Fairmont which will do a much safer 0-100 in mid sevens (with my new exhaust)

My question is what is the fastest p-plate legal cars cutting around excluding ridiculous things such as 80 grand Alfas. I have seen a lot of crappy Lancers cutting around and the new laws have just made the VL epidemic even worse but I have seen a lot of p platers in XR6's and I'm pretty sure manual V6 VN's go pretty hard.

So for the p plater bogan out there what is the top dog performace car? I'm thinking if you can pick up a Valiant Pacer pretty cheap your set.

Off topic: Mate just picked up a V8 Perkins Commodore and he reckons it puts out 180rwkw. I reckon he's full of shite as a stroked Holden V8 goes nowhere near that anybody know anything about it?

Is this a serious question ? "Fastest"??
Rather than try to get around the laws put in place to help protect you (and others from you) why not just buy something appropriate for your experience and ability and save your coin for something a bit "faster" if you need it down the track when you've got a bit more experience under your belt??

trent · 10-09-2007, 06:46 PM

Maybe young drivers should be more concerned with improving their driving skills than what the fastest car they can legally drive is...

Steffo · 10-09-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Is this a serious question ? "Fastest"??
Rather than try to get around the laws put in place to help protect you why not just buy something appropriate for your ability and save your coin for something a bit "faster" down the track when you've got a bit more experience under your belt??

Because the laws are idiotic knee-jerk bandaid reaction legislation that haven't done anything. In fact, in their first year, P-Plate deaths on NSW roads doubled! Real effective stuff....

:

Oh, and also, not everyone living in a "free," country is willing to let themselves be walked all over and told what to buy, how to live, what to think and what have you.

I don't disagree with the experience thing, but why should an EL XR8, for example... be illegal, when a faster and argueabley worse handling BF XT isn't? Retarded rules don't help anything.

4Vman · 10-09-2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Because the laws are idiotic knee-jerk bandaid reaction legislation that haven't done anything. In fact, in their first year, P-Plate deaths on NSW roads doubled! Real effective stuff....

:

Oh, and also, not everyone living in a "free," country is willing to let themselves be walked all over and told what to buy, how to live, what to think and what have you.

I don't disagree with the experience thing, but why should an EL XR8, for example... be illegal, when a faster and argueabley worse handling BF XT isn't? Retarded rules don't help anything.

Steffo, not one of your better posts mate... for starters the fact that P plater deaths didnt drop was due to them ignoring and braking the laws that were brought in to save them...
Maybe if they hadnt broken the law they would still be with us.
As for the free country bit well driving is a privilege and responsibility... not a right.

Vdouw · 10-09-2007, 07:00 PM

doesn't really matter on the speed of the car man its the ****er behind the wheel. I was one of those p platers that everyone complains about, and rightly so ... just chill 4 3 yrs with a car thats got potential and save up for when you get your opens ... and in the mean time do driver course ... its more fun taking a corner sideways safly than going really quick off the lights into a poll ... trust me.

TEaaron · 10-09-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Is this a serious question ? "Fastest"??
Rather than try to get around the laws put in place to help protect you (and others from you) why not just buy something appropriate for your experience and ability and save your coin for something a bit "faster" if you need it down the track when you've got a bit more experience under your belt??

Pfft, faster car doesn't mean more dangerous, I can drive my old mans worked 351 perfectly safe.

Just because it's a fast car doesn't mean you're going to use it's full power potential everywhere. It all comes down to DRIVERS ATTITUDE not the car.

I'm building a 13 second corty and I'm still on L's Doesn't mean I'm going to die, maybe if I do what the media says I will do and use a congested main road to test the top speed of my car.

Infact most of my mates who have been in serious accidents weren't driving fast cars.

Lasers, vk commo's, XD-XF's

Your posts really frustrate me.

Steffo · 10-09-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Steffo, not one of your better posts mate... for starters the fact that P plater deaths didnt drop was due to them ignoring and braking the laws that were brought in to save them...
Maybe if they hadnt broken the law they would still be with us.
As for the free country bit well driving is a privilege and responsibility... not a right.

And I disagree with driving being a privilege. Why should transportation be a privilege? But that's a whole different argument.

The NSW P-Plate laws are stupid and there's no getting around that. Every night on the road I see examples of it. Now that after 11pm red P-Platers aren't allowed more then one passengers... instead of seeing one car with three or four people in it... I see three or four convoying with each other and generally being a much greater risk to anything bad happening then when its one car on its own. There's always one person at the back running a red or doing something not to lose the "convoy." Stupid legislation at its best.

Or the out-lawing of high 16 sec 100kW turbo, super-safe Volvo's because they're turbocharged... for example... while you can buy for similar money a real sports car like a 1997 Elise (35k now, 88kW 675kg), or a Renault Clio Sport or a Peugeot 206 GTi180 etc etc, which put VX SS's and S3 AU XR8's to shame... because they're n/a I4's? That makes no sense?

The vast majority of these cars, if the legislation which I believe is an invasion of civil liberties was done with a hint of intelligence, would be banned under a power/weight law. The fact that there even is a restriction is inexcuseable. We're too lazy and tight to actually teach people to drive properly, improve the roads and have the police deal with things that actually are relevant, so we'll just put speed cameras everywhere and throw really poorly thought out laws at you? No thanks!

One reason you'll notice that accidents and deaths are up is that alot of young people who have the money to buy a car they wanted... aren't. They're buying very cheap beaters to drive and wait... which are unsafe, unable to avoid accidents properly and driven in a "no care," manner by the owners and then inevitabley, when things go wrong, they go wrong big time.

xygthop3 · 10-09-2007, 07:07 PM

HEY BUDDY..

yeah im shatterd about this law 2 man..
i coped it also..
i got my p's on the 3rd of august and had to postpone my machine of a xe ghia :(...

i bought a ef fairmont for everyday and seriously man ur better off getting a reliabele thrash aroud car and if u cant build the car u want (tahts what im doing)

i made the car look half decent, it does burouts, has a good system and looks half decent..

the faster possible car u can get is a rotary like a series 5 or sumthing like that or a s2000 if u have the dosh..

TEaaron · 10-09-2007, 07:09 PM

20b N/A rotary in a mazda 323

You're not modifying the engine you're replacing it

:

FPV8U · 10-09-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

And I disagree with driving being a privilege. Why should transportation be a privilege? But that's a whole different argument.

The NSW P-Plate laws are stupid and there's no getting around that. Every night on the road I see examples of it. Now that after 11pm red P-Platers aren't allowed more then one passengers... instead of seeing one car with three or four people in it... I see three or four convoying with each other and generally being a much greater risk to anything bad happening then when its one car on its own. There's always one person at the back running a red or doing something not to lose the "convoy." Stupid legislation at its best.

Or the out-lawing of high 16 sec 100kW turbo, super-safe Volvo's because they're turbocharged... for example... while you can buy for similar money a real sports car like a 1997 Elise (35k now, 88kW 675kg), or a Renault Clio Sport or a Peugeot 206 GTi180 etc etc, which put VX SS's and S3 AU XR8's to shame... because they're n/a I4's? That makes no sense?

The vast majority of these cars, if the legislation which I believe is an invasion of civil liberties was done with a hint of intelligence, would be banned under a power/weight law. The fact that there even is a restriction is inexcuseable. We're too lazy and tight to actually teach people to drive properly, improve the roads and have the police deal with things that actually are relevant, so we'll just put speed cameras everywhere and throw really poorly thought out laws at you? No thanks!

One reason you'll notice that accidents and deaths are up is that alot of young people who have the money to buy a car they wanted... aren't. They're buying very cheap beaters to drive and wait... which are unsafe, unable to avoid accidents properly and driven in a "no care," manner by the owners and then inevitabley, when things go wrong, they go wrong big time.

Don't bother Steffo, 4Vman has his opinion on the subject and going on previous discussions i have had with him they won't be changing any time soon.

This argument will never really get anywhere except around and around...

deathlucky · 10-09-2007, 07:11 PM

it should be a power to weight thing like it is with motorcycles in nsw

billford · 10-09-2007, 07:14 PM

ahhhh, give me back the good old days - the 80s - got my Learners permit driving a 400 trans am pontiac - where 200 plus kph on nepean hwy after midnight was normal !!!!!!!!!!!-

fmc351 · 10-09-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

And I disagree with driving being a privilege. Why should transportation be a privilege? But that's a whole different argument.

The NSW P-Plate laws are stupid and there's no getting around that. Every night on the road I see examples of it. Now that after 11pm red P-Platers aren't allowed more then one passengers... instead of seeing one car with three or four people in it... I see three or four convoying with each other and generally being a much greater risk to anything bad happening then when its one car on its own. There's always one person at the back running a red or doing something not to lose the "convoy." Stupid legislation at its best.

Or the out-lawing of high 16 sec 100kW turbo, super-safe Volvo's because they're turbocharged... for example... while you can buy for similar money a real sports car like a 1997 Elise (35k now, 88kW 675kg), or a Renault Clio Sport or a Peugeot 206 GTi180 etc etc, which put VX SS's and S3 AU XR8's to shame... because they're n/a I4's? That makes no sense?

The vast majority of these cars, if the legislation which I believe is an invasion of civil liberties was done with a hint of intelligence, would be banned under a power/weight law. The fact that there even is a restriction is inexcuseable. We're too lazy and tight to actually teach people to drive properly, improve the roads and have the police deal with things that actually are relevant, so we'll just put speed cameras everywhere and throw really poorly thought out laws at you? No thanks!

One reason you'll notice that accidents and deaths are up is that alot of young people who have the money to buy a car they wanted... aren't. They're buying very cheap beaters to drive and wait... which are unsafe, unable to avoid accidents properly and driven in a "no care," manner by the owners and then inevitabley, when things go wrong, they go wrong big time.

Drink drive, they take it off you. Commit a crime, you can still talk about it, just not for profit.

rights v privileges, not that you have any inalienable rights in Aus anyway, we dont have a bill of rights like the US.

And thats the problem, the same 'no care' drivers are also buying the performance cars and using them. Its one thing to floor a laser off the lights and chuck it away in 3rd, its another when the same is done in a riced Skyline turbo in 2nd, or 383 Falcon. Dont get me wrong, i dont think they know how to draw such laws up, its clearly uneducated and misguided.

unfortunately there are enough of your generation, and mine too, its not like its really just the youth of today, who get the voters in arms. Kill yourself on a tree, I dont care, your parents do though, kill someone elses family and I care, and I hope your parents do too, as should you. The people most vocal are the parents of dead kids, it should tell you something. How often are the hoons who end in court displaying the 'no care' attitude outside court? You dont instill confidence. You being generic, not specific.

TEaaron · 10-09-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billford

ahhhh, give me back the good old days - the 80s - got my Learners permit driving a 400 trans am pontiac - where 200 plus kph on nepean hwy after midnight was normal !!!!!!!!!!!-

Sh!t watch out 4v man doesn't see that!!!

gthofan · 10-09-2007, 07:18 PM

i reckon a tc cortina with the 4.1L mmm 4 speed, power bulge!!! woops.... :(

schnoods · 10-09-2007, 07:31 PM

A hyundai excel + tree + wet road = a bad accident.

It doesnt take much to be part of a statistic. But in all seriousness there are speed limits, so they try and ban cars in a "hoon" category, rather than looking at physics and seeing it doesnt take a turbo charged V8 to have an accident.

Driver attitude needs to be addressed, soon they might ban red colour cars because they go faster and may even ban wearing backwards caps because they change your driving attitude. Whats next?

gthofan · 10-09-2007, 07:40 PM

thats right, every car has to stick to the speed limit. So you might aswell do it in style! get a 6cyl LTD, lowered, exhaust, leather, dark tint. Mate thats a winning combo.

GS608 · 10-09-2007, 07:49 PM

what about when somebody whose been driving a heap of a little 4cyl excel or something get their open license and has the money goes and buy a big powerful v8 and because they arent used to the power still drive the same as they did in that little excel and end up wrapping themselves or something else around a tree?

banning those cars will do nothing, people will be stupid whether its an excel or a ferrari.

XR8Master · 10-09-2007, 08:01 PM

If I where you under the new p plate restrictions I would be looking out for an AUIII xr6vct engine from the wreakers and putting it in a 1400kg EA

172 kw and 374nm. Then while no one was looking I would throw in a new cam, valve springs and port/polish the head 200kw would'nt be hard to achieve, now you have a street cred low 14 second car that looks stockers.

I doubt you will ever get pulled over by the Po Po asking for a Random Dyno Test
(RDT)

Steffo · 10-09-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8Master

If I where you under the new p plate restrictions I would be looking out for an AUIII xr6vct engine from the wreakers and putting it in a 1400kg EA

172 kw and 374nm. Then while no one was looking I would throw in a new cam, valve springs and port/polish the head 200kw would'nt be hard to achieve, now you have a street cred low 14 second car that looks stockers.

I doubt you will ever get pulled over by the Po Po asking for a Random Dyno Test
(RDT)

That car would be illegal. Engine swaps are illegal unless its same engine into same car due to engine failure.

Any modification deemed as performance enhancing or anything that requires an engineer's certificate is illegal. Which means literally almost any modification aside from a bodykit and slightly bigger wheels and a stereo.

Oh... the fine? Lots of money and 7 points - instant green P's loss.

XR8Master · 10-09-2007, 08:19 PM

I didn't think you would require a Engineer's certificate to swap out the engine for another one thats the same

So just say your EA suffered from "Engine Failure" and you drove down to your local wreakers and he ran out of EA engines and only has AU's engines left (EA-AU have the same engine (pretty much)) this would be deemed illegal ?

paule11 · 10-09-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billford

ahhhh, give me back the good old days - the 80s - got my Learners permit driving a 400 trans am pontiac - where 200 plus kph on nepean hwy after midnight was normal !!!!!!!!!!!-

The good old days everyone seemed to have a v8, lead in the petrol no subwoofers. A noisy exhaust on a 4 cylinder was a source of embarassment .
Ricing up a car would lead to questions about your sexuality or mental state.
Nothing quite like the sound of dozens of v8s cruising on a Friday night.

With these P PLate laws its probably best to buy some cheap car keep it standard and spend 3 years building yourself up something worthwhile or saving for something better .

krisisdog · 10-09-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8Master

I didn't think you would require a Engineer's certificate to swap out the engine for another one thats the same

So just say your EA suffered from "Engine Failure" and you drove down to your local wreakers and he ran out of EA engines and only has AU's engines left (EA-AU have the same engine (pretty much)) this would be deemed illegal ?

They are pretty much the same yeh, but it'd be easier to throw in a EL XR6 motor, and advance the timing. As for the cam, if you get a mild one, how the fucck are they going to know?
I've got extractors, 1 muffler box exhaust, fat tip, superlows, CAI, and am gunna get a cam shortly, and the cops dont care.

Tote · 10-09-2007, 09:00 PM

A couple of points to ponder regarding the NSW licence laws, the reason P plater deaths have increased is probably because there are now 3 times as many P platers as there were 5 years ago when provisional licencing was only for one year.

A ban on V8s looks good in the press as the general public think all V8s are performance vehicles

It could be worse like in Victoria where you can't even get your P plates until you are 18, hell you can't get your bits pierced there either now.

It saddens me to see the number of people who have fallen for the crap that the government dishes out regarding speeding etc. !0 KM over the limit won't necessarily melt your brain and teenagers have been killing themselves with dangerous behavior since the dawn of time. If you allow the lowest common denominator to rule, the rest of the population will dumb themselves down to suit.

Regards,
Tote

jakkes · 10-09-2007, 09:07 PM

i pulled the lower part of this thread off http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/05348326d5daefbaca256e2a0073a951/4ebf6fbbce0ad979ca256f0b000a7d78!OpenDocument

i think people get sucked in by all these p platter add's/news paper's ect
in the last few years iv seen reports on TV ect where the show will go on and on about p platers then show some people doing a burn out (some times at the drags!!! ?) then they will give a number on how many people were killed on the road for that year or later, BUT WHAT they don't say is what % of that number wear p-platter deaths or p-platter caused death's typical media trick i would love to see statistics from 70's/80's for young driver deaths and compare to today's don't forget there's more people on the road this days

the media has just created another band waggon for all the misinformed people to jump on

now I'm not on p-plates and i don't agree with all the illegal street drag's and big gatherings of people with a car's doing nutts in the middle of them that's just plain idiotic. I just think there are to many misinformed people on the p-platter subject and all these equally dumb rule's for p-plate car's is the end result of it all

as long as there are cars on the road people will die.

((One life lost on the road is one too many. We must aim for zero. However, the latest statistics from 2001 show that there were 258,561 licence holders in the 17-year to 20-year age group. Fortunately, there were not hundreds of young people killed; there were 30. I accept that it is 30 too many, but it represents 0.01 per cent of all licence holders in that age group. We must be sensible and look at the statistics. I accept that there are more young people killed as passengers in cars, but the drivers may have been 40, 45 or 50 years old. We must keep in perspective the fact that according to the latest Roads and Traffic Authority statistics, of the 258,561 licence holders aged 17 to 20 years the number of young people killed on our roads represents 0.01 per cent. Before we talk about curfews, we should properly examine the statistics and go from there.))