Are Fpv/Tickfords Overated

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Just wondering if people think that FPV's and Tickfords are overrated....when compared to old school GT's etc....and also value for money in relation to other cars in the ford stable eg. XR8/6T etc!!!

Are FPV vehicles good value for money? absolutely, can they be compared with the old school "musclecar era" GT's? No.
The XR to XB GT Falcon was and still is the Icon model of the Musclecar era for Blue Oval fans (and most other musclecar fans too), the car was developed to represent Ford on the motor racing scene and largely dominated it.
Because no other model after was developed by Ford AU for this purpose it will forever stick out as a unique special model and ERA in Australia.
The Current FPV/Tickford vehicles have no racing pedigree or herritage like the older GT's, people idolised the older GT's when they were new because of the racing connection, the new cars lack that significant aspect, which is why i dont believe the current cars will ever gain broad "collectability" except amongst very small die hard groups...

[jcxr]

I found out yday of a phase 3 in my suburb and i actually know the owner. Never even new he was a ford man. Its a totally unmolested car, never been restored, original phase 3

[CATFORD]

Originally Posted by auslandau

FPV/Tickford cant be compared to old school GT though? Cant see where you coming from there.

Anything that has the tickford/FPV badge will hold its value better than anything stock from the factory i would imagine. Of course I would option to one of these given 1/2 the chance. Wont be in the same class....even in 20 years time.....(might be proven wrong) than anything pre '78.

Where am I coming from in relation to comparing old school GT's to these days GT's....but I definately think you can compare them (GT-P, GT, ELGT and EB GT) Ford have put there GT badge on all these cars....and I believe they should live up to there name sakes from 1969 to 1978....but Ford have made the same mistakes in the past with Mustang GT and Cobra R in the US etc....only now have they brought out a factory Mustang "GT-500" with 500 horsepower and that is what the GT name deserves....not some badge on the back....and a ****y build number that has no cieling bar the amount Ford/FPV can sell....where is the prestige in that!!!

Dont get upset with me....as it's only my opinion....thats all.....this is why I have ask the forum about this concern!!!

I just believe that the GT derserve better....as does $75000

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Are FPV vehicles good value for money? absolutely, can they be compared with the old school "musclecar era" GT's? No.
The XR to XB GT Falcon was and still is the Icon model of the Musclecar era for Blue Oval fans (and most other musclecar fans too), the car was developed to represent Ford on the motor racing scene and largely dominated it.
Because no other model after was developed by Ford AU for this purpose it will forever stick out as a unique special model and ERA in Australia.
The Current FPV/Tickford vehicles have no racing pedigree or herritage like the older GT's, people idolised the older GT's when they were new because of the racing connection, the new cars lack that significant aspect, which is why i dont believe the current cars will ever gain broad "collectability" except amongst very small die hard groups...

And that's always been the argument, but rules were different back then and the car was raced as it was bought off the showroom floor with a little engine and suspension work to make it track ready.

These days rules have changed and the top tier of racing in this country is such that the rules are different and try to increase parity between the manufacturers to try to make it a bit more even in the aero stakes at least.

I don't know how you could say these cars are not raced, improved production racing and production racing series have been around for quite some time and have slowly gained momentum. They are not raced on a profile as high as the V8 SC but still have a good following of people that try to get to all the events, mainly because it's not deemed commercially viable by the TV stations and very rarely if ever gets on the tube.

They may not have been specifically built by Ford to race on a track but that doesn't mean that Ford doesn't race them in some form or by some kind of sponsorship deal with some of the production racing teams. By this alone your point would be made invalid and untrue simply because alot of the teams back then were basically privateers that had a good bit of backing from the manufacturers because it helped to sell cars. That's pretty much what the production series is about now, so how is this any different to the racing of the 60's and very early 70's.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

And that's always been the argument, but rules were different back then and the car was raced as it was bought off the showroom floor with a little engine and suspension work to make it track ready.

These days rules have changed and the top tier of racing in this country is such that the rules are different and try to increase parity between the manufacturers to try to make it a bit more even in the aero stakes at least.

I don't know how you could say these cars are not raced, improved production racing and production racing series have been around for quite some time and have slowly gained momentum. They are not raced on a profile as high as the V8 SC but still have a good following of people that try to get to all the events, mainly because it's not deemed commercially viable by the TV stations and very rarely if ever gets on the tube.

They may not have been specifically built by Ford to race on a track but that doesn't mean that Ford doesn't race them in some form or by some kind of sponsorship deal with some of the production racing teams. By this alone your point would be made invalid and untrue simply because alot of the teams back then were basically privateers that had a good bit of backing from the manufacturers because it helped to sell cars. That's pretty much what the production series is about now, so how is this any different to the racing of the 60's and very early 70's.

The late 60's early 70's presented a wonderful set of conditions in the automotive industry and racing industry which gave rise to give us the GT, the time was right and all the cards fell in the right order.
While at the time it worked, as you've well pointed out times change and progression is made, the supercar scare and booming oil prices killed off the musclecar era, its for this reason that the musclecar era in Australia will allways stand alone and a golden period of time in this country if you're a motoring enthusiast, we will never see that mix of showroom hotrods/premier racing catagory again.
The cars we have today were not designed with the racetrack in mind like the oldschool GT's were, and the national V8supercar series is run to a set of rules that avoids the need for homologated showroom hotrods.
The fact that the cars can be adapted to race means little IMO, any car can be raced so to speak.
Production car racing in Australia is now a non event, its an obscure series, has no sales merit to the car manufacturers and is largely unknown to the broader motoring community.

[sbutler]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Every area except attention from other motorists and resale value!!! :voldar02:

Yeah your right there, but it will get better as time goes on. :

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The cars we have today were not designed with the racetrack in mind like the oldschool GT's were, and the national V8supercar series is run to a set of rules that avoids the need for homologated showroom hotrods.
The fact that the cars can be adapted to race means little IMO, any car can be raced so to speak.

Neither were they if that's your argument, they were in fact as you yourself say "adapted to race".

The current run of production muscle would make minced meat of a P3HO out of the box in every way possible, power, looks , driveability, definitely affordability, interior appointments the list could go on for pages.

The early GT never came out factory fiotted with a roll cage or race tyres or with a trick motor, so how are they different to what there is their for the general public to purchase today in comparison to what there was their then.

What even you seem to be forgetting is that GT=Gran Turismo/Grand Touring, the fact that these were raced was only by chance because good US sourced ex race cars were becoming scarce and pricey. They were initially produced to cater to a growing market of buyers looking for a family car that they could have some fun in, not everyone could afford a Mustang so they made something that most could.

This debate could go on till the cow bells start to ring, and quite possibly will, but it's about time early owners stopped being so precious and actually came back down to earth. I mean most see FPV owners as having there heads in the clouds because they own something that not everyone can, which is wrong,that's what finance is for. We don't want our cars to be worth anything near what you guys like to ask for yours, I for one want to be able to drive it down the street and be able to walk to the shop without having to have Armaguard patrolmen circling the perimeter of the car till I get back.

If you enjoy your car then enjoy it but don't try to speculate what might or might not be the case with something that you really have no idea about, if you did I'm sure you would have bought at least 10 each XA and XB GT's 15 years ago when they could still be had for a song. The fact is you didn't, that alone shows me just how much of your speculative prowess is based on what you are told rather than what you have learned because you really come across as not having learnt very much, sorry.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

If you enjoy your car then enjoy it but don't try to speculate what might or might not be the case with something that you really have no idea about, if you did I'm sure you would have bought at least 10 each XA and XB GT's 15 years ago when they could still be had for a song. The fact is you didn't, that alone shows me just how much of your speculative prowess is based on what you are told rather than what you have learned because you really come across as not having learnt very much, sorry.

What??!!
For starters nobody with half a brain would try to compare a phase 3 to a BFGT for performance and total driving experience, that's absurd.
Also... im sorry but i do have an idea about this stuff, ive had plenty of first hand experience, i bought an XBGT 6 years ago for 11K and sold it late last year for 42K, a mate bought a Phase 3 a couple of years ago for 120K and has been offered over 500K for it, my XYGT is probably worth well over 100K, the old school GT's didnt really go backwards in value, but todays cars? i bought a series 2 220kw tickford AU XR8 for 46K and 4 years later couldnt give it away for 17K... i paid 50K for my BAXR8, what do you reakon its worth today...? BAGT's and T3's are struggling to make lease pay out figures, get my drift??

EDIT:

When ever i take the XY out i get constant smiles and thumbs up, if i park it it gets swarmed by people, i bet if i parked it beside a BFGT nobody would notice the BF... sorry but THAT'S musclecar Herritage....

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

The current run of production muscle would make minced meat of a P3HO out of the box in every way possible, power, looks , driveability, definitely affordability, interior appointments the list could go on for pages.

Compare apples with apples, until Ford release a new GT that is the fastest production sedan in the world ! the new models will only dream of having the same stigma and resale that's associated with the XY HO.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Compare apples with apples, until Ford release a new GT that is the fastest production sedan in the world ! the new models will only dream of having the same stigma and resale that's associated with the XY HO.

EXACTLY!
Also if the premier motor racing catagory in Australia went back to production based vehicles and Ford produced a showroom racer like the HO to be competitive THEN the new cars may become collectable down the track...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Where am I coming from in relation to comparing old school GT's to these days GT's....but I definately think you can compare them (GT-P, GT, ELGT and EB GT) Ford have put there GT badge on all these cars....and I believe they should live up to there name sakes from 1969 to 1978....but Ford have made the same mistakes in the past with Mustang GT and Cobra R in the US etc....only now have they brought out a factory Mustang "GT-500" with 500 horsepower and that is what the GT name deserves....not some badge on the back....and a ****y build number that has no cieling bar the amount Ford/FPV can sell....where is the prestige in that!!!

Dont get upset with me....as it's only my opinion....thats all.....this is why I have ask the forum about this concern!!!

I just believe that the GT derserve better....as does $75000

Nope, not getting upset with anyone.......Just wanted to know where you saw the comparison between the then and now GT's.

They were and are completely different kettles of fish, brought out in different eras of time. (Its easier just to read 4V's bit rather than me re write it) The XR - XB are 'rough' on comparison but arent bought or driven for there nibbleness around corners, climate control, leather seats, ABS, etc. As far as todays GT go, yep there is no ceiling to how many are sold......and neither were all the other GT's previously (except the limited runs for the EB & EL). Ford would have sold as many GT HO's as they could in their day.

I know many wont agree, but I beleive that all the FORDS that do bare the GT badge do live up to the Grand Tourer thingy that they started here 30 odd years ago. There is enough difference to the the standard production, an optioned up Falcon/Fairmont or whatever! The only GT they should have done was the AU T3. The EB & EL is another argument



| [/url] |

[TURBOTAXI]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

EXACTLY!
Also if the premier motor racing catagory in Australia went back to production based vehicles and Ford produced a showroom racer like the HO to be competitive THEN the new cars may become collectable down the track...

I have been saying for years that I would like to see production sedans raced (like the BRUTE series) Rather than the V8 supercars.

If there was a true production racer (sans luxury items and a real road burner) surely that would become an iconic Australian legend.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What??!!
For starters nobody with half a brain would try to compare a phase 3 to a BFGT for performance and total driving experience, that's absurd. [

Absurd in what way?? Which are you saying is the better??

Also... im sorry but i do have an idea about this stuff, ive had plenty of first hand experience, i bought an XBGT 6 years ago for 11K and sold it late last year for 42K, a mate bought a Phase 3 a couple of years ago for 120K and has been offered over 500K for it, my XYGT is probably worth well over 100K, the old school GT's didnt really go backwards in value,

Yes you bought these cars.

When??............ When you saw that there was a dollar to be made just like anyone else that could afford to get in early, just as the prices started to head way North with a rocket strapped to it. That really doesn't tell me you had any foresight, just that you saw an investment opportunity as it was happening and jumped on board, I never said you were stupid just not as intuitive as you might like to think you are.

Second to that, the old school GT's did go backwards in price, how many '1 owners' do you know of?? Most of the original owners traded them for a later model, usually XA or XB GT and the XY was sold on the lot as a second hand vehicle at a lesser price, meaning it lost value. Sure they held a good resale later on but in the early days they lost just like any other run of the mill production performance car, if I recall as I was in my early teens but they were still fetching between $10K for an average and $25K for a good GT not HO in the early 80's, you could even find them under that but needed quite a bit of work. The average price for a Falcon or Commodore then was around $12K-$15K with the ESP just over $20K and a VH SS GPA around the $25K, so not bad for its age.

but todays cars? i bought a series 2 220kw tickford AU XR8 for 46K and 4 years later couldnt give it away for 17K... i paid 50K for my BAXR8, what do you reakon its worth today...? BAGT's and T3's are struggling to make lease pay out figures, get my drift??

Again you prove my point, you bought a run of the mill car (no offence to XR8 owners but this is about the top end), if you expected to get a good return then you are really a worse judge than even I gave you credit for.

Also anyone that bought a BA GT or for that matter a T series with the thought of paying out the lease and keeping the car has got a fool for an accountant, these cars are tax write offs and are used as such. If you had planned to keep it then you should have put a lower balloon with a higher monthly pay back thereby getting maximum gain for your tax claim, again fools.

EDIT:

When ever i take the XY out i get constant smiles and thumbs up, if i park it it gets swarmed by people, i bet if i parked it beside a BFGT nobody would notice the BF... sorry but THAT'S musclecar Herritage....

Sorry but that's a very arrogant attitude.

Both cars would get looks, most would look at yours as probably just another imitation unless you explained to them it's not, but they would look at the BF as something that they can actually buy one day. Once the novelty wears off of looking at the XY they will most likely go to the BF and ask where he got it from and what deal he got so that they can get one themselves.

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Compare apples with apples, until Ford release a new GT that is the fastest production sedan in the world ! the new models will only dream of having the same stigma and resale that's associated with the XY HO.

It was the fastest production 4 door sedan in the world yes, at that time, the Volvo T5R (another on my want list) was the fastest production front wheel drive 4 door sedan in the world in its time also but I don't see you singing its praises. Because you own it you love it and that's fine I don't have an issue with that, but it would be nice if you guys stopped being so arrogant as to think that the XY is the be all and end all of Australian factory built Muscle Cars.

And again I don't want to have to be scared of potential buyers possibly being car thieves and have to find special secret locations to have them view my car when I want to sell it, which quite frankly I don't.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Once the novelty wears off of looking at the XY they will most likely go to the BF and ask where he got it from and what deal he got so that they can get one themselves.

............because the Xy isnt available to most while the BF is! Simple really.....but are we not straying from topic here and getting a bit personal!!! Its all a matter of opinion and perseption!



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[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Absurd in what way?? Which are you saying is the better??


Yes you bought these cars.

When??............ When you saw that there was a dollar to be made just like anyone else that could afford to get in early, just as the prices started to head way North with a rocket strapped to it. That really doesn't tell me you had any foresight, just that you saw an investment opportunity as it was happening and jumped on board, I never said you were stupid just not as intuitive as you might like to think you are.

Second to that, the old school GT's did go backwards in price, how many '1 owners' do you know of?? Most of the original owners traded them for a later model, usually XA or XB GT and the XY was sold on the lot as a second hand vehicle at a lesser price, meaning it lost value. Sure they held a good resale later on but in the early days they lost just like any other run of the mill production performance car, if I recall as I was in my early teens but they were still fetching between $10K for an average and $25K for a good GT not HO in the early 80's, you could even find them under that but needed quite a bit of work. The average price for a Falcon or Commodore then was around $12K-$15K with the ESP just over $20K and a VH SS GPA around the $25K, so not bad for its age.




Again you prove my point, you bought a run of the mill car (no offence to XR8 owners but this is about the top end), if you expected to get a good return then you are really a worse judge than even I gave you credit for.

Also anyone that bought a BA GT or for that matter a T series with the thought of paying out the lease and keeping the car has got a fool for an accountant, these cars are tax write offs and are used as such. If you had planned to keep it then you should have put a lower balloon with a higher monthly pay back thereby getting maximum gain for your tax claim, again fools.

EDIT:



Sorry but that's a very arrogant attitude.

Both cars would get looks, most would look at yours as probably just another imitation unless you explained to them it's not, but they would look at the BF as something that they can actually buy one day. Once the novelty wears off of looking at the XY they will most likely go to the BF and ask where he got it from and what deal he got so that they can get one themselves.

Of coarse the BFGT is a better car, no question, i may even buy one later this year as my daily driver. You don't buy a Phase 3 because of what it can do in todays terms... you buy one because of its racing and factory musclecar history and herritage.
Most of the classic GT's recovered to their original purchase value within 4-6 years, that's quite astounding when you think about it in todays terms, how long will it take for a BFGT or T series to be worth its original purchase price? (let alone go up in value) decades?
I bought the XBGT because i love GT's and classic Ford Musclecars, im a collector/enthusiast, i had no intentions of selling it, i was chased and made an offer too good to refuse, and i had the opportunity to buy the XYGT too.

I think its great that Ford manufactured cars so good than we can feel a bit elite or "arrogant" about.... even if they're now "classics"... after all, if you're really honest with yourself ego drives allot of our buying decisions doesnt it...... .

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by auslandau

............because the Xy isnt available to most while the BF is! Simple really.....but are we not straying from topic here and getting a bit personal!!! Its all a matter of opinion and perseption!

That's the point that I'm trying to make as well as the mask that I'm trying to uncover.

Most of us who will never own an early GT still appreciate them for what they, it's time that early owners did the same with late models and said that "hey, anythings possible" instead of clinging onto a false economic plataeu that will surely tumble eventually.

[TEaaron]

Performance wise i'd say they're overated..

but a non FPV/tickford won't be as collectable in a few decades as a fpv/tickford.


Just look at the xygt

[GK]

I enjoyed reading this discussion fellas!

Would I own a Tickford TS50 or one of the many gorgeous FPV;'s if I had the money (read oodles and oodles) to spare. Most likely.

They are awesome vehicles no worries about that!

Would I take out finance to get one, no way. I am far too practical to do that. I already have over 100K in mortage to pay off, why would I add 60oddK
to that figure? For bragging rights? Nope not me!

It's clear that many are more than willing to do that. Their choice and all the best to them.

Would I choose an XYGT over one of them. Probably not. Again, I am too practical and wouldn't want to have to watch over it every night and day, hoping to heaven that it wouldn't get stolen etc, etc.

In addition, I love the modern amenities that new cars have, the safety and comforts that the old greats just can't match.

Do I appreciate their role in our great Ford racing history and the mystique they have attached to them. Sure do.

Do I lie in bed at night wishing for a XYGT or even TE50 or FPV? Nope.

Perhaps one day down the track, but for me, that track looks a long, long way off. Nothing to be upset about, just my lot in life.

And for me, that's fine!

Cheers,

GK

[freaky]

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

I have been saying for years that I would like to see production sedans raced (like the BRUTE series) Rather than the V8 supercars.

I love the v8 supercars because they are fully bred racing cars. I don't really care that they have nothing in common with the road car.

Personally, I would find watching production sedans racing boring. Slow and sloppy around corners and braking.

The v8s sound good, look good and have the performance to match, we get some great racing.

Production car racing does exist but it is not popular like the supercar series. Most people say they would watch this type of racing yet dont realise it does exist.

Oh, and regarding FPV's, I dont beleive they are overated.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by freaky

I love the v8 supecars because they are fully bred racing cars. I don'hat t really car that they have nothing in common with the road car.

Personaly, I would find watching productions sedans racing boring. Slow and sloppy around corners and braking.

The v8s sound good, look good and have the performance to match, we get some great racing.

Production car racing does exist but it is not popular like the supercar series. Most people say they would watch this type of racing yet dont realise it does exist.

That is why the catagory is so popular, they wont go back to production cars ever again for so many reasons, including what you've said.
All that means is the way we view current performance sports production cars like the BFGT is different to how we view the older classic musclecars with racing herritage..

[GTPete]

Im lucky enough to own a BFGT and an XYGTHO.
The BFGT gets looks the HO turns heads.
Impossible to compare the two. Its a bit like trying to compare cricket or football teams from different era's. Which one is best? Both are great cars, excellent value and true Grand Tourers.
FPV have done a great job with the current GT, its worth every cent.
If you have a chance to own any model GT then go for it, not for the money you might make but for the pleasure of owning the best car Ford Australia has to offer. Regardless of when it was built.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

if you're really honest with yourself ego drives allot of our buying decisions doesnt it...... .

Nope, I buy it coz I like it not how I look in it or how people might see me because of it, don't judge me by your standards please.

If that was the case I would have bought the Bionic BF F6 off the showroom floor just to be one of the very first to own one in that color, but I didn't, I instead bought a car that I copped a lot of flack on, but you know what I love it......coz it's mine.

I would have gone and extended my finances and bought a brand new 2006 tow truck just to look good when I'm working, but I didn't coz this one actually suits my needs better than a new one, its an 89 by the way, but again i love it.

Not everyone does things to impress others, some of us just do it because we like it.

If you're proud of something you own then that's great and I'm actually very happy for you, but do not think that you can sit here and judge that which is still an unknown and use your luck in previous years as some sort of reference without ruffling a few feathers. Just as I ruffled yours you were quite happy to sit and preach the gospel according to you until someone actually questioned the word of XY.

Dude enjoy what you have and be greatful for it, anything else is just a bonus.

[freaky]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That is why the catagory is so popular, they wont go back to production cars ever again for so many reasons, including what you've said.
All that means is the way we view current performance sports production cars like the BFGT is different to how we view the older classic musclecars with racing herritage..

yep. times have changed.

many complain the supercars are nothing like the roadgoing cars. i dont really find that a problem. they are awesome machines.

answer this, after watching v8 supercar racing, can people honestly say they would find watching stock SS's and XR8's going round a track interesting ?

I'd fall alseep very quickly.

thats just my opinion. each to their own.

[FTE217]

Back on topic and not comparing XSeries yaddayadda....

Tickford/FPV's are they worth the extra $$ ????

Absobloodylutely !!!!
They stop,go, have all the gizmo that's what we want and the Real McCoy's.
IDGAF what they are worth down the track,it's driven not hidden....

[DOC]

Well, i have never heard people say I'd swap my T / FPV for a DAILY, but have heard I'd swap my DAILY for a T / FPV anyday, so no, not underated.

[mik]

i dont think they are over rated at all, considering all the luxo stuff in them they are great performers, i would have 1 or 2 if finance permitted , and as far as performing better in all ways, when the current bangers stage it ............. the hair doesnt stand up on back of your neck like it would if you where standing next to the mighty phase 3

[Sorted]

Pfffffffffffffft Overated, lol, AS IF !

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Kenaz

The only Tickford/FPV I find overated is the ED XR8 Sprint.

care to explain that?

personally, i feel the run of the mill XR's, BA/BF GT's and the sort are horrendously overrated

remember, not untill the BA's, was there a power difference between a standard V8 falcon and an XR8, and even with the XR6's, the difference wasnt really anything to write home about

limited production items like the EB SS, EB GT, ED XR8 Sprint, EL GT, NL FBT and the AU T-series are all well and truly unique, people who buy them invariably dont buy them because they look pretty, they buy them because they recognise what the car is, and what went into it

just as a thought, a few days ago, as i walked to my car i realised the guy who'd walked out in front of me owned the very tidy EB XR6 that was parked next to my car, i complimented him on his EB, and the first thing he replied with was "yeah, but not quite like a sprint, is it"

only a young guy, just on his P's, but he still knew what that little sprint badge meant, and it must have meant a fair bit to him

[MickyD]

Can someone help me out. I have just joined ford forums and I'm not sure how to add my own post if anyone could help me out that would be much appreciated. I do think that the fpv's are worth the extra cash.

[MickyD]

Can someone tell me how to put my own posts on here. I am new and I'm not sure how to ad my own posts.