Will the Holden brand survive? - Page 28

Bossxr8 · 03-09-2019, 02:40 PM

Holden were predicting at launch that the Equinox should be a top 3 seller at over 1000 units a month. Man they missed that by miles.

Even that heap of junk Captiva smashed it for sales in it's last 12 months.

One of the local Holden dealers has just closed down here a couple of days ago.

jpd80 · 03-09-2019, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Totally agreed, my point was more to do with the perception of those decisions by the faithful, at least the more expensive SUV is in a segment which people want.

Equally agree with that, Fiesta ST and Focus ST arrive together
and sell as a team on the same theme. Holden needs to present
Equinox as more up market than before, I get that because it has
to start clawing back from all the discounting that’s been going on
simply to shift stock and give dealers more cars to service.

I don’t se people here being as polarised as you perceive, more like
they can see the challenges in front of Holden, they have to start
somewhere and Equinox is probably the best place. Ford on the other
hand are simply after top end sales / high transaction prices to keep
Detroit metrics going - all about profit % these days not maximise it.

prydey · 03-09-2019, 05:15 PM

To be fair, I don't see any more or less discounting from one brand to the next.

Bossxr8 · 04-09-2019, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

To be fair, I don't see any more or less discounting from one brand to the next.

You should. Holden have been slashing drive away prices heavily since local production ceased, and their new imports bombed.

prydey · 04-09-2019, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You should. Holden have been slashing drive away prices heavily since local production ceased, and their new imports bombed.

Take your blinkers off. You also have an unhealthy hatred of anything Holden.

Dr Terry · 04-09-2019, 04:14 PM

Yeah, a lot of new car dealers are doing it tough these days.

Not just Holden, it's all brands.

Apart from a few models that are actually in high demand, it's buyers market

Dr Terry

BENT_8 · 04-09-2019, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Yeah, a lot of new car dealers are doing it tough these days.

Not just Holden, it's all brands.

Apart from a few models that are actually in high demand, it's buyers market

Dr Terry

Agreed, when you have one manufacturer selling in excess of 2 to 1 over second best and the next 9 separated by a few thousand sales there is only 1 real winner and a bunch of also rans.
When that winner supposedly flogs white goods it speaks volumes about the desirability of the rest.

Syndrome · 04-09-2019, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

When that winner supposedly flogs white goods it speaks volumes about the desirability of the rest.

It also speaks volumes about the buyers.

au2000 · 04-09-2019, 08:18 PM

Every one is doing it tough now, all have dropped sales, what has me curious is what kind of profit in Australia Toyota will make compared to Ford.
Will the mass market white goods sales bring in a better profit margin than Fords new premium price mantra?
At the end of the day the overall numbers don't lie, Toyota is giving the buyers what they want,

Bossxr8 · 05-09-2019, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Take your blinkers off. You also have an unhealthy hatred of anything Holden.

How have I said anything that's not a fact? Holden ran heavily slashed drive away prices only months after the ZB and Equinox were released, because they massively over ordered stock and had to get rid of them.

If you are saying that's untrue then you are full of crap.

Yeah they aren't the only ones who discount, but not many heavily discounted as much as they did trying to clear that stock.

And shock horror, someone who dislikes Holden on a Ford site. Well i'll be giggered

vztrt · 05-09-2019, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How have I said anything that's not a fact? Holden ran heavily slashed drive away prices only months after the ZB and Equinox were released, because they massively over ordered stock and had to get rid of them.

If you are saying that's untrue then you are full of crap.

Yeah they aren't the only ones who discount, but not many heavily discounted as much as they did trying to clear that stock.

And shock horror, someone who dislikes Holden on a Ford site. Well i'll be giggered

Good buying if you want a full size sedan. German built. Good warranty. Cheap price.

BENT_8 · 05-09-2019, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Good buying if you want a full size sedan. German built. Good warranty. Cheap price.

Agreed, im not sure why people get so worked up over discounting when everyone knows we get shafted on price in this country so that heavy discounting is probably closer to realistic pricing in any other market, but that doesn't fit the narrative..

It wasn't that long ago that certain people pointed to Toyota's discounting of its Hilux as the reason for its commanding position on the charts yet nothing has been said on that subject with regard to Ranger sales despite similar discounting since late last year.
One could argue that neither of them are necessarily discounted at present and more likely where they should be without the Australia tax we get slugged with for being a relatively small market isolated at the **** end of the world.

jpd80 · 05-09-2019, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Take your blinkers off. You also have an unhealthy hatred of anything Holden.

It's not a hatred, they're trapped now in discount-land.
After moving a mountain of stock, buyers now expect the same discounting to
continue otherwise it will be crickets in dealerships.. The only reason it doesn't
stand out more is that now, everyone else is starting to discount but now there's
a big diffidence and that is less actual buyers. Holden's discounts are now effectively
nullified as any price advantage is brought back to the field.

This is not anti-Holden, it's just more hardship dealers now have to endure
but man, anyone wanting a new vehicle, this is the time to shop around...

Bent, 100% agree on prices coming back to more realistic levels but still
seems uneven, depending on vehicles sought. Methinks a lots of sneaky
price transferring going on where O'seas keeps all profit and locals get
nothing save for dealers getting more vehicles to service, their reason for being.

hackney · 06-09-2019, 05:56 AM

The thing that really amuses me is that everybody hammers the ZB on its sales,& this is across all spectrums.(but it is the leader in its class,but a shrinking one @ that) yet Mustang is “flatlining”,honeymoon over?Ford charges way to much for it’s range,it is all about profit,profit,profit.ZB is actually very good value,& is a very capable vehicle.I would purchase a ZB over a Mondeo.Take Ranger away,& what do you have? A very sorry looking company.Thank god they have Ranger,because they have nothing else.People carry on about the state Holden is in,Ford is really not much better.

(cannot not wait for the “flack” coming my way!)

prydey · 06-09-2019, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackney

(but it is the leader in its class

Does it outsell Camry?

digitalpunk · 06-09-2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Does it outsell Camry?

No it doesn't

August Sales figures were -

Toyota Camry (1290)
Holden Commodore (509)

But the Camry is in the Medium class while the Commodore is in the Large class

Medium
Toyota Camry (1290)
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (423)
BMW 3 Series (232)

Large
Holden Commodore (509)
Kia Stinger (172)
Skoda Superb (102)

hackney · 06-09-2019, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Does it outsell Camry?

Not in the same class,surely you can see that?Back to “school” for you son!

prydey · 06-09-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalpunk

No it doesn't

August Sales figures were -

Toyota Camry (1290)
Holden Commodore (509)

But the Camry is in the Medium class while the Commodore is in the Large class

Medium
Toyota Camry (1290)
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (423)
BMW 3 Series (232)

Large
Holden Commodore (509)
Kia Stinger (172)
Skoda Superb (102)

it was tongue in cheek. i'm well aware of how they class it, which is a bit of a joke, but doesn't really mean anything except for some worthless statistics.

its 4cyl, has smaller dimensions than a camry (and other mid class cars) yet for some strange reason they class it large.

on that note, camry and Aurion were the same car for much of their life apart from the engine, yet one was large and one was medium. the ecoboost falcon, with small engine, remained classed as large.

there are a lot of strange things with the way they class cars.

Sprintey · 06-09-2019, 08:02 PM

I wonder if they are getting squeezed as AUD tanks and the Euro (relatively) holds up?

hayseed · 06-09-2019, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackney

ZB is actually very good value,& is a very capable vehicle.

I agree,If Holden had of Called it the Holden Insignia, it would be selling a lot better than It is..

They Pizzed a lot of people off calling it a Commodore..

jpd80 · 07-09-2019, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

I agree,If Holden had of Called it the Holden Insignia, it would be selling a lot better than It is..

They Pizzed a lot of people off calling it a Commodore..

but here's the kicker, they did have an Insignia that sold alongside VFII
so dropping Commodore and just keep going with new Insignia would have
meant Holden bursting in flames much earlier.......

Like it or not, Holden is wedlocked to a vehicle called Commodore until one of them dies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I wonder if they are getting squeezed as AUD tanks and the Euro (relatively) holds up?

Most deals done by GM and Ford are in US dollars, so yeah more pressure on pricing.

ozrunner · 25-09-2019, 05:44 PM

A few days ago I thought I spotted something strange and have just had it confirmed.

When I was in my early teens many years ago my mate was also doing his mechanic apprentiship at our local Holden dealers and I used to also go there on Saturday mornings and join the boys in the workshop. Flogging the new 327 Monaros used to be a hoot.

Many years later it was sold and they moved to new premises on the main highway. Being one of if not the longest Holden dealer in Perth they have always had good sales so all was sweet but it seems this has now taken a turn for the worse.

They have recently handed back the Holden dealership along with a host of unsold ZB's and their premises are now decked out as Mitsubishi Motors.

Wow, I never thought this would happen as they were a Holden institution and it just shows what can happen when the tide turns. I'm not sure whether being Mitsubishi will be a big improvement but obviously due diligence stacked it up more than staying as a Holden dealer in order to survive.

Whoever it was that determined that a FWD Opel should be called a Commodore will go down in history as being a total wombat.

prydey · 25-09-2019, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Whoever it was that determined that a FWD Opel should be called a Commodore will go down in history as being a total wombat.

Bit harsh. I doubt it would have made any difference. Once local manufacturing stopped Ford and Holden were always going to have to close a few dealerships. Just the harsh reality.

jpd80 · 25-09-2019, 06:38 PM

Just to give some perspective regarding sales and profitability in this country,
let's take Toyota's most recent achievement for FY19 (tax year ends March 31, 2019)...LINK
Toyota Australia FY19:
After tax profit was $209 Million
Sales were 223,096...

I know this is simple math but that works out to an average of $936 per vehicle.
Now three things are possible,

1. Toyota operates on very skinny margins on all vehicles?
(unlikely)

2. A lot of Toyota's vehicles make little or no money?
( Maybe vehicles below say $40K don't add much profit?)

3. A crap ton of price transferring is going on?
(Products from Asia sold to Toyota Aust at near full retail price?)

Not disparaging Toyota's strong sales in Australia but just be aware that either
they're not making all that much money or it's being sneakily siphoned off
to another region.

When you consider those are the figures on the runaway sales leader in Australia,
you have to wonder what's in it for the others....

Syndrome · 25-09-2019, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just to give some perspective regarding sales and profitability in this country,
let's take Toyota's most recent achievement for FY19 (tax year ends March 31, 2019)...LINK
Toyota Australia FY19:
After tax profit was $209 Million
Sales were 223,096...

I know this is simple math but that works out to an average of $936 per vehicle.
Now three things are possible,

1. Toyota operates on very skinny margins on all vehicles?
(unlikely)

2. A lot of Toyota's vehicles make little or no money?
( Maybe vehicles below say $40K don't add much profit?)

3. A crap ton of price transferring is going on?
(Products from Asia sold to Toyota Aust at near full retail price?)

Not disparaging Toyota's strong sales in Australia but just be aware that either
they're not making all that much money or it's being sneakily siphoned off
to another region.

When you consider those are the figures on the runaway sales leader in Australia,
you have to wonder what's in it for the others....

My experience says it is option 3 with the profits going back to the head office.

jpd80 · 25-09-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

My experience says it is option 3 with the profits going back to the head office.

When Ford and Holden made a loss, at least all the money stayed here in the community.
Look at all the money being dragged out of the country today with very little taxable profit.
They threw our car industry and trade tariffs under a bus so they could take the lot
and our government let them do that. ~$30 Billion in annual revenue flowing out of the country.

arronm · 25-09-2019, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Whoever it was that determined that a FWD Opel should be called a Commodore will go down in history as being a total wombat.

You have a short memory. VB commodore.

Trendseeker · 25-09-2019, 08:41 PM

It’s simple maths. The wholesale margins are large enough to pay for the salaries of 1600 Toyota Australia employees, property and building costs, asset depreciation and replacement, transportation, advertising... the list goes on... and still make an average $936 profit per vehicle. Then there are the retail margins supporting the dealers, their employees, third party service and product suppliers etc who are also making money out of the sale of those cars.

.:4:. · 25-09-2019, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

You have a short memory. VB commodore.

image

Starfire 1.9L 4 maybe. Pretty sure the blue 202, 253 and 308 were all enough australia thrown into the euro design on that one. Falcons didnt start out as an austrailian thing either, we also just ran with it.

hayseed · 25-09-2019, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just to give some perspective regarding sales and profitability in this country,
let's take Toyota's most recent achievement for FY19 (tax year ends March 31, 2019)...LINK
Toyota Australia FY19:
After tax profit was $209 Million
Sales were 223,096...

I know this is simple math but that works out to an average of $936 per vehicle.
Now three things are possible,

1. Toyota operates on very skinny margins on all vehicles?
(unlikely)

2. A lot of Toyota's vehicles make little or no money?
( Maybe vehicles below say $40K don't add much profit?)

3. A crap ton of price transferring is going on?
(Products from Asia sold to Toyota Aust at near full retail price?)

Not disparaging Toyota's strong sales in Australia but just be aware that either
they're not making all that much money or it's being sneakily siphoned off
to another region.

When you consider those are the figures on the runaway sales leader in Australia,
you have to wonder what's in it for the others....

I couldn't be bothered wading through the Financials..
But, I bet that Toyota Australia's EBITDA is a hell of a lot better than $936