Congestion tax back on the agenda - Page 3

burnz · 03-08-2011, 11:04 AM

why can't we do what flappist said.. stagger the working hours.

sydney done it for the olympics to reduce pollution and gridlock!!

Jim Goose · 03-08-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

why can't we do what flappist said.. stagger the working hours.

sydney done it for the olympics to reduce pollution and gridlock!!

Ok so if a couple with kids has staggered working hours... one in a government job, the other in a normal job and one works at night and one during the day... when do they see each other?
Its all very well to say the public service should work at night...
Ok when will they open their office so people (the public) can go in to talk to them personally?
We are not night owls... and youll have more and more people out there like zoombies because they work at night.

Are we then to say that all shopping centers remain open 24hrs a day to cater for more and more people who will work at night?
Restaurants open 24hrs aday?
What about the pubs? Niteclubs which open during the day?

Yes lets all work 24hrs a day 7 days a week...

burnz · 03-08-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ok so if a couple with kids has staggered working hours... one in a government job, the other in a normal job and one works at night and one during the day... when do they see each other?
Its all very well to say the public service should work at night...
Ok when will they open their office so people (the public) can go in to talk to them personally?
We are not night owls... and youll have more and more people out there like zoombies because they work at night.

Are we then to say that all shopping centers remain open 24hrs a day to cater for more and more people who will work at night?
Restaurants open 24hrs aday?
What about the pubs? Niteclubs which open during the day?

Yes lets all work 24hrs a day 7 days a week...

shops are allready 24hrs 7days.
banks work saturdays.
public service is 1300 number.
pubs/clubs most are 24/7 aswell.

but family time will be the killer..

SB076 · 03-08-2011, 12:33 PM

@ Sudszy there are different view points. I presonally dont beleive a tax can or will fix a problem (be it either climate, congestion etc) I can only speak for myself, but personally I am dissappointed that rather than look for a viable solution to a problem the government has simply looks at taxing the issue.

mr_xr8 · 03-08-2011, 12:44 PM

they have a tax for everthing

what next a tax for carbon dioxide, oh wait

GTP-814 · 03-08-2011, 12:48 PM

they'll be a tax soon for the oxygen theives, as someone has to pay for those steeling it

NAK302 · 03-08-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ok so if a couple with kids has staggered working hours... one in a government job, the other in a normal job and one works at night and one during the day... when do they see each other?
Its all very well to say the public service should work at night...
Ok when will they open their office so people (the public) can go in to talk to them personally?
We are not night owls... and youll have more and more people out there like zoombies because they work at night.

Are we then to say that all shopping centers remain open 24hrs a day to cater for more and more people who will work at night?
Restaurants open 24hrs aday?
What about the pubs? Niteclubs which open during the day?

Yes lets all work 24hrs a day 7 days a week...

you're kidding aren't you?
i live in a town that has 85% of the population on shift work

mik · 03-08-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Didn't John Howard announce that he would implement the GST if re-elected? The difference being that he had the balls to take it to an election.

no he did an about face just like some one else..

flappist · 03-08-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ok so if a couple with kids has staggered working hours... one in a government job, the other in a normal job and one works at night and one during the day... when do they see each other?
Its all very well to say the public service should work at night...
Ok when will they open their office so people (the public) can go in to talk to them personally?
We are not night owls... and youll have more and more people out there like zoombies because they work at night.

Are we then to say that all shopping centers remain open 24hrs a day to cater for more and more people who will work at night?
Restaurants open 24hrs aday?
What about the pubs? Niteclubs which open during the day?

Yes lets all work 24hrs a day 7 days a week...

The same way that people who work shift work currently do.

As far as 24 hour services, well why not? The only reason there is a 7 day week with 2 days off is a legacy several thousand year old dogma implemented to control the populace.

Trying to solve a 21st century problem using 8th century ideology will alwways end in tears. There is a reason why that era was called the dark ages......

And yes, zombies do work better at night which I why I suggested public servants and academics, they already know how to act....

Road_Warrior · 03-08-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Maybe a half decent regional development program which provided incentives for business to relocate.

Or maybe looking at the FBT so that fly-in-fly-out wasn't so prevalent and workers stayed onsite and their familiies relocated.

Oh no, that makes way too much sence and besides sounds like too much hard work, so in typical socialist government style, lets apply a tax.

And there it is.

There is no logical reason for some businesses and government departments to be sited in CBD areas. Some of them can move to regional areas and provide a bit of an economic shot in the arm for some of our struggling regional areas and at the same time reduce the size of the CBD workforce.

xtremerus · 03-08-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

no he did an about face just like some one else..

You are confusing 2 different elections.
As ours have said, one election he was against the GST, then for the next one, the GST was the major policy for that election. He won that election.

xtremerus · 03-08-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

wholesale tax was 22% now 26%
lowered is a far cry from removed..fuel would have been 60cpl, should now be 78cpl not 150cpl.
pacific for us only, and still 20yrs off being finished..
cartage/haulage has remained stagnant around 12%, this is an unofficial GST as it applies to everything..

There is no wholesale tax. Where do you get that idea from?

mik · 03-08-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

You are confusing 2 different elections.
As ours have said, one election he was against the GST, then for the next one, the GST was the major policy for that election. He won that election.

we`ll agree to disagree

sudszy · 03-08-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

why don't you have a think about what you are saying!!!

i've been doing what i do for close to 20yrs. there are no places closer to where i live where i can do the same thing. i'm not skilled (qualified) to do anything else, so if i did choose to find employment closer to home, i would have to undergo training, which is usually multiple years, at reduced income. who would pick up the slack to pay my mortgage and support my wife and kids? should i put more burden on the government and welfare systems??

or should i sell my house and move closer to my work. we all know houses get cheaper the closer you go to the cbd now don't we!!

why don't you just have a think about what you are suggesting. maybe also have a think about whether or not fordforums is the right place for you.

lts not my suggestion!, but yes, I think it has some merit as one way to tackle the problem.

However, it appears you still havent given a moments thought as to why a congestion tax is being considered or alternatives, and the only thing you do is scream "me,me' with your own self interest taking centre stage. No-one in this country is guaranteed a job or income stream/lifestyle forever, just the way it is.

Yes, you can stay in your current job and live where you are now, but a congestion tax(if it indeed affects you) would add to your travel costs. You can decide to stay put or make changes.......no-one is yet contemplating putting up road blockades telling you where you can and cant go.

sudszy · 03-08-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

@ Sudszy there are different view points. I presonally dont beleive a tax can or will fix a problem (be it either climate, congestion etc) I can only speak for myself, but personally I am dissappointed that rather than look for a viable solution to a problem the government has simply looks at taxing the issue.

The same aim could be met without a tax if that's what concerns you, permits/restrictions etc when you could use particular roads......but Im guessing most people would prefer to be able to just pay more when they need to go somewhere rather than being dictated to on when they are allowed to travel

Franco Cozzo · 03-08-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ok so if a couple with kids has staggered working hours... one in a government job, the other in a normal job and one works at night and one during the day... when do they see each other?
Its all very well to say the public service should work at night...
Ok when will they open their office so people (the public) can go in to talk to them personally?
We are not night owls... and youll have more and more people out there like zoombies because they work at night.

Are we then to say that all shopping centers remain open 24hrs a day to cater for more and more people who will work at night?
Restaurants open 24hrs aday?
What about the pubs? Niteclubs which open during the day?

Yes lets all work 24hrs a day 7 days a week...

There'd be heaps of people wanting to work nightshifts, I'd be down for night shift at my work..

One thing I think should be 24/7 is banks, seriously when can you ever get to the bastards? They close on weekends, monday to thursday they close at 4pm which is too early to get to, only Fridays I can because they're open to 5pm and I finish at 1.

My local bank does anyway.

Weekends they close, thats why I reckon you should be able to deposit money at ATMs.

Bank is a pretty essential service, why isn't it open 24/7?

Also yes I'd like to see more big business move out of the CBD, there is plenty of space in places like Bendigo, which are still reasonable to get to, Bendigo has a good train line.

xtremerus · 03-08-2011, 08:59 PM

You can tell the 9 to 5 workers here.
And that is the reason for the congestion.

Think outside the square. Staggered work hours, decentralisation, and many more.

Thinking and ideas, not just tax as the solution to everything.

SB076 · 03-08-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

The same aim could be met without a tax if that's what concerns you, permits/restrictions etc when you could use particular roads......but Im guessing most people would prefer to be able to just pay more when they need to go somewhere rather than being dictated to on when they are allowed to travel

No i wasnt suggesting restricting access. I am suggesting goverments think long term and provide solutions. Our public transport system needs a major overhual. We are a long way behind many European and Asian cities in providing efficient public transport.

Will try to find the percentage of cars that travel through Melbourne as opposed to stopping in the city the number is very high. Given that why not create a means to allow these vehicles to bypass Melbourne and free up the roads for those stopping in the city?

sudszy · 03-08-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

No i wasnt suggesting restricting access. ?

I think you have misread my post, you claimed taxes weren't a solution to anything, I suggested the same thing could be achieved by restricitions if paying taxes was your beef.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

I am suggesting goverments think long term and provide solutions. Our public transport system needs a major overhual. We are a long way behind many European and Asian cities in providing efficient public transport.

I agree, but the average australian isnt demanding this from their governments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

Will try to find the percentage of cars that travel through Melbourne as opposed to stopping in the city the number is very high. Given that why not create a means to allow these vehicles to bypass Melbourne and free up the roads for those stopping in the city?

That's where governments are perhaps looking ahead, there is on guarantee anywhere on the planet, put more roads in and the population will fill them!
The solution isnt to put freeways allowing people to criss cross the city in 1 hour from Cranbourne to Melton to travel to work because that's the only place they can find a job in the short term......the cost is enormous($ and enviro) and unsustainable for a city that is growing, how many more tunnels etc do we want to build?

gtxb67 · 03-08-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

However, it appears you still havent given a moments thought as to why a congestion tax is being considered or alternatives, and the only thing you do is scream "me,me' with your own self interest taking centre stage. No-one in this country is guaranteed a job or income stream/lifestyle forever, just the way it is

if you have a problem with congestion the solution is simple, don't drive - i doubt you will have a problem with it anyway

Franco Cozzo · 03-08-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if you have a problem with congestion the solution is simple, don't drive - i doubt you will have a problem with it anyway

If public transport took me to my workplace, I wouldn't drive at all as I would have no need, I need to get to Tullamarine which isn't bad traffic wise.

I'm considering driving to TAFE though as I've had enough with the scumbags in the city.

gtxb67 · 03-08-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If public transport took me to my workplace, I wouldn't drive at all as I would have no need.

that is the problem - public transport is a joke - and yet the only solution anyone in power can think of is taxing us stupid, while insisting that it is for our own good

if you have to drive, i don't have a problem with that - most of us do. it is just some people are so self righteous that they try and make us feel bad when we try and earn a living

sudszy · 03-08-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if you have a problem with congestion the solution is simple, don't drive - i doubt you will have a problem with it anyway

If there is some point to this post other than harassment, let everyone know.

gtxb67 · 03-08-2011, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

If there is some point to this post other than harassment, let everyone know.

yes, it is about suggesting that those with too much time on their hands find real solutions instead of trying to rip more money off us

i do not have a problem with congestion and if i did i would find a solution - either by not complaining or finding a different option. traffic is a pain, but the other options are far worse

sudszy · 03-08-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

yes, it is about suggesting that those with too much time on their hands find real solutions instead of trying to rip more money off us

i do not have a problem with congestion and if i did i would find a solution - either by not complaining or finding a different option. traffic is a pain, but the other options are far worse

so why is it in response to my post.

gtxb67 · 03-08-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

so why is it in response to my post.

if you have to ask, you would not understand

Ben73 · 03-08-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ok so if a couple with kids has staggered working hours... one in a government job, the other in a normal job and one works at night and one during the day... when do they see each other?
Its all very well to say the public service should work at night...
Ok when will they open their office so people (the public) can go in to talk to them personally?
We are not night owls... and youll have more and more people out there like zoombies because they work at night.

Are we then to say that all shopping centers remain open 24hrs a day to cater for more and more people who will work at night?
Restaurants open 24hrs aday?
What about the pubs? Niteclubs which open during the day?

Yes lets all work 24hrs a day 7 days a week...

Nothing wrong with having more people working during the night.
Here we have 24-7 Coles, kmart, servos, mc donalds, drinking locations, gyms.

Plus more people around at night can only be good for reducing crime.

burnz · 04-08-2011, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

There is no wholesale tax. Where do you get that idea from?

when i buy components using and ABN all receipts have wholesale tax list separate to GST.

every part of a truck has wholesale tax!
that gets passed on to you the consumer.

prydey · 04-08-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

and the only thing you do is scream "me,me' with your own self interest taking centre stage.

i would say the 'selfish' people are those who want the tax, as it seems they are unable to put themselves in other people's situations. they just say, 'thats life - deal with it'!! they use the argument that its for the better good of everybody. yeah right.

if you must know, i do shift work, so am rarely in traffic and i rarely visit the cbd. a congestion tax will hardly impact me at all, but that doesn't mean i can't disagree with the idea.

sudszy · 04-08-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

if you must know, i do shift work, so am rarely in traffic and i rarely visit the cbd. a congestion tax will hardly impact me at all, but that doesn't mean i can't disagree with the idea.

Great, deliberate misrepresentation of your own personal situation to pursue you main aim which seems to be criticising any post I make and/or complain about govco.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i've been doing what i do for close to 20yrs. there are no places closer to where i live where i can do the same thing. i'm not skilled (qualified) to do anything else, so if i did choose to find employment closer to home, i would have to undergo training, which is usually multiple years, at reduced income. who would pick up the slack to pay my mortgage and support my wife and kids? should i put more burden on the government and welfare systems??

or should i sell my house and move closer to my work. we all know houses get cheaper the closer you go to the cbd now don't we!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i would say the 'selfish' people are those who want the tax, as it seems they are unable to put themselves in other people's situations. .

As yet, in three or four posts in this thread you still havent appeared to grasp the intended purpose of a congestion tax or even suggested alternatives.