Point-to-point cameras snap 20,000 motorists speeding on the Hume Fwy, MORE COMING!!

[Bucknaked]

We have 2 x p2p in Canberra. Located conveniently either side of a big hill. So your riding the brakes coming down hill. It's 2k from start to finish. I just sit in the right hand lane doing 20k under the speed limit. I know it annoys other drivers, but its only 2k between points. We can just do 20k over the speed limit to make up the time lost.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

with all those taxes already in , it's much easier just to cut penalty rates , and freeze wage growth , this will make more people seek more work + more time on the roads

SHHH you'll give them ideas.

[bmorris]

Posting about hating speed cameras on here isn't going to achieve anything. 99% of people on here don't like them already.

Just remember it for the next election. Don't vote for the government or any other party who supports the nanny state. This is the only way that things will change.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by bmorris

Just remember it for the next election. Don't vote for the government or any other party who supports the nanny state. This is the only way that things will change.

Yes it does need a public backlash but the problem is both political sides tend to support it because it's so deeply entrenched in bureaucracies, academia and a sufficient number of prigs out in society. If there was a mass civil disobedience campaign to not pay fines that might work politically, but most individuals would be too timid to do that because of the possible costly consequences. So, in short, they've got us.

The point to point thing is particularly nasty. If it happened in Europe there'd be revolutions in the streets. Road safety over there is based on common sense not nannying. Tends to work better when you treat people with respect.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Yes it does need a public backlash but the problem is both political sides tend to support it because it's so deeply entrenched in bureaucracies, academia and a sufficient number of prigs out in society. If there was a mass civil disobedience campaign to not pay fines that might work politically, but most individuals would be too timid to do that because of the possible costly consequences. So, in short, they've got us.

The point to point thing is particularly nasty. If it happened in Europe there'd be revolutions in the streets. Road safety over there is based on common sense not nannying. Tends to work better when you treat people with respect.

This is all very true. I have driven thousands of miles in the US. Their attitude to road safety is generally one of self responsibility. Much like most parts of Europe. Most of Australia'a road "safety" laws are based on fiscal outcomes. If it happens to save a life that's a bonus.

[landau5.8]

i wonder, if you take longer that the designated time for p2p, will you get a refund in the mail. I mean fair is fair, if you go fast you get booked, if you go slow, you should get a refund..IMO...

[Franco Cozzo]

Speeding fine letters should have "Welcome to Victoria" on the front of them.

Its funny how the state which had the Eureka Stockade and home to the Unions is the state which its citisens bend over for the government the most.

"They don't make them like they used to".

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Yes it does need a public backlash but the problem is both political sides tend to support it because it's so deeply entrenched in bureaucracies, academia and a sufficient number of prigs out in society. If there was a mass civil disobedience campaign to not pay fines that might work politically, but most individuals would be too timid to do that because of the possible costly consequences. So, in short, they've got us.

The point to point thing is particularly nasty. If it happened in Europe there'd be revolutions in the streets. Road safety over there is based on common sense not nannying. Tends to work better when you treat people with respect.

hahahahah LOL , your on the wrong forum for this attitude mate , most here ore of the opinion they can take on the world themselves if they do the right thing . so that means that when people protest , they are being a newsence , and holding up decent civilians doing the right thing , cause the media and govts said .

[mike_nofx]

Im going to make an unpopular comment here.

The Government requires or needs or wants a certain amount of money to operate, $x. (note: This is not to say that all of $x is wisely spent money, but it doesn't matter, the Government will spend $x regardless)

So if $x = GST + income tax + speed camera revenue + etc + etc.
What happens if you remove or heavily reduce one of these? such as if the Government says that tomorrow they will switch off 75% of all speed cameras in Australia, which would be a loss of many MANY millions of dollars.

How do they make up this lost money? raise taxes?

The way I see it, speeding fines are a tax you can avoid paying. Just dont speed. (note 2: I'm in no way saying there are no speed limits which are too low, or that there are no roads you can safely 'speed' on, I know there is) But if you dont want to pay, obey the limit.

Raising taxes for lost revenue affects everyone, speeding fine revenue only affects those who (safely or unsafely) speed.

[Franco Cozzo]

Remove speed cameras, increase tax on alcohol and smokes greatly.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Remove speed cameras, increase tax on alcohol and smokes greatly.

Screw that. Put in more cameras and cut the tax on booze

[T4ME]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Im going to make an unpopular comment here.

The Government requires or needs or wants a certain amount of money to operate, $x. (note: This is not to say that all of $x is wisely spent money, but it doesn't matter, the Government will spend $x regardless)

So if $x = GST + income tax + speed camera revenue + etc + etc.
What happens if you remove or heavily reduce one of these? such as if the Government says that tomorrow they will switch off 75% of all speed cameras in Australia, which would be a loss of many MANY millions of dollars.

How do they make up this lost money? raise taxes?

The way I see it, speeding fines are a tax you can avoid paying. Just dont speed. (note 2: I'm in no way saying there are no speed limits which are too low, or that there are no roads you can safely 'speed' on, I know there is) But if you dont want to pay, obey the limit.

Raising taxes for lost revenue affects everyone, speeding fine revenue only affects those who (safely or unsafely) speed.

Totally agree with this comment.

No doubt it will be spin doctored by the usual suspects though.

[jpd80]

Heck, why not just issue everyone with an E-tag and an electronic reader for your license
and while were at it, why not have an eftpos machine in the dash to pay your fines on the run...

That would save govco the effort of tracking down all those naughty people who wanna give money away..

[Sprint]

sack gillard, sink the whale ships and legalize weed, then get ready to have a ruddy good time.



pls dont penalize me moderators

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Imolator

It's pretty simple really if you don't speed you don't get fined. If you speed and get fined take it on the chin.

If they raised the limit to 120 on the Hume people would still go faster, as one poster already said, a lot of motorists see the limits and just ignore them.

Having said that I don't think speed kills, it's speeding and bad attitude. Sad to say but Australia has some of the poorest maintained roads in the world. Driven on by some of the worst drivers in the world. Any don't get me started about the cowboy truck drivers on the Hume, it's a death trap at times.

That's why speed limits are set. Lower spped gives you time to avoid an incident. Lower spped reduces fuel consumption. Lower speed also reduces the extent that the vehicle crushes and the extent of injury should you crash.

[Outbackjack]

P2P is just the tip of the iceberg.... I know what will be next. I used to work for one of the companies developing it. It consists of a small dvice that will be installed into every car by Vicstan law. It has a GPS device and is wireless capable. It will monitor every kilometer that you drive. Anywhere in the country. The Vicstan Gov will be setting up wireless hot spots all round the state. It will automatically report any speed infrigement to the hotspots as you pass and a fine will be generated and sent via email and post..... It was moth balled a few years ago because of some inacuracies on the mapping data base. Those errors are being steadily over come. I would guestimate that in about 2 years it will rolled out with great fan fare in the communist southern state.

This is part of the reason I boycott Vicstan.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

P2P is just the tip of the iceberg.... I know what will be next. I used to work for one of the companies developing it. It consists of a small dvice that will be installed into every car by Vicstan law. It has a GPS device and is wireless capable. It will monitor every kilometer that you drive. Anywhere in the country. The Vicstan Gov will be setting up wireless hot spots all round the state. It will automatically report any speed infrigement to the hotspots as you pass and a fine will be generated and sent via email and post..... It was moth balled a few years ago because of some inacuracies on the mapping data base. Those errors are being steadily over come. I would guestimate that in about 2 years it will rolled out with great fan fare in the communist southern state.

This is part of the reason I boycott Vicstan.

If they do that, maybe the solution is additional software that restricts speed in areas to the posted speed limit.....

yeah, that'll stuff them bureaucrats right up.

[mike_nofx]

If they make it way too easy to catch you for speeding (ie, GPS monitoring every trip and every km), I reckon less people will have to speed. Leaving the seriously stupid people as the only ones who still speed. That will heavily reduce revenue, and as such, I dont see it happening.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

If they make it way too easy to catch you for speeding (ie, GPS monitoring every trip and every km), I reckon less people will have to speed. Leaving the seriously stupid people as the only ones who still speed. That will heavily reduce revenue, and as such, I dont see it happening.

The thinking is that every single driver on every single road trip wil at some point exceed the limit. Revenue will boom!! I would challenge any driver to deny that on every single drive, no matter how short, that they will at some point go slightly over the posted limit. Not deliberatly or with a hoons malice. But it will always happen. It happens when you are concentrating on your surroundings and not your speedo. Even the do gooders that post here will be pinged.... That might challenge their "bend over and take it" attitude.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If they do that, maybe the solution is additional software that restricts speed in areas to the posted speed limit.....

yeah, that'll stuff them bureaucrats right up.

The problem with GPS is it requires clear reception of GPS signals which can be a bit of a problem if there was a bit of accidental spurious EMR about. Accelerometers could be used to compensate but they are prone to loss of accuracy after exposure to shock such as from a large hammer.

The whole speed tax game is a balancing act. If the fines become too high they affect the economy thereby reducing tax.

If they slow too many down they reduce the revenue stream with the same result as above.

If they prevented speeding absolutely they would have two problems:
1) Loss of revenue.
2) Explaining why the road toll did not change.

As I have stated many many times, if draconian enforcement of speed was the solution to the road toll then Victoria would have a much lower road toll than all of the other states and territories.

So either the speed cameras are a scam or Victorians are the most stupid people in Australia as they are incapable of using heir own judgement to drive safely.

Now I personally do not think that Victorians really are the most stupid people in Australia but I do wonder why they constantly vote for politicians who keep installing more and more cameras.

[Sprint]

A adverage is just that and on adverage its easier to be a criminal.

Say you do the speed limits 99% of the time but go over on the 1% moment(when you cant overtake that Truck spitting gravel)

Now your whole adverage speed has gone up by 1-2km, making you look and feel like a full time criminal or creep as they would put it.

Goverments are broke,cant tax them anymore then fine them.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

The thinking is that every single driver on every single road trip wil at some point exceed the limit. Revenue will boom!! I would challenge any driver to deny that on every single drive, no matter how short, that they will at some point go slightly over the posted limit. Not deliberatly or with a hoons malice. But it will always happen. It happens when you are concentrating on your surroundings and not your speedo. Even the do gooders that post here will be pinged.... That might challenge their "bend over and take it" attitude.

I don't think there's a trip I've been on in 10 years of driving that I haven't exceeded the speed limit at some point on.

Also, of the thousands of times I've driven past speed cameras I've not once sped past one. Reasons being, I only speed where I am 99% sure I won't be caught. When I know there is a speed camera ahead, I slow down and travel below the speed limit and make 100% sure I'm not doing 1km over.

Now, if my speed is being monitored 24/7 I will apply my above method and make 100% certain I am not exceeding the speed limit. If that means constantly travelling 5-10kph below the limit, so be it.

My 'need' to not be caught and pay hundreds of dollars and lose points in fines far out weighs my 'need' to travel over the speed limit.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

I don't think there's a trip I've been on in 10 years of driving that I haven't exceeded the speed limit at some point on.

Also, of the thousands of times I've driven past speed cameras I've not once sped past one. Reasons being, I only speed where I am 99% sure I won't be caught. When I know there is a speed camera ahead, I slow down and travel below the speed limit and make 100% sure I'm not doing 1km over.

Now, if my speed is being monitored 24/7 I will apply my above method and make 100% certain I am not exceeding the speed limit. If that means constantly travelling 5-10kph below the limit, so be it.

My 'need' to not be caught and pay hundreds of dollars and lose points in fines far out weighs my 'need' to travel over the speed limit.

It wont happen. You will at some point get fined. No matter how hard you try. For the next week or so, imagine that you have one of these devices in your car. Then work out how much it will cost you.

[JG34JA]

Probably a good time for this quote:

"We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them...you create a nation of lawbreakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden."

[Brazen]

Two things,

1. No wonder no one wants to live in Victoria,

2. I'm glad I live in the middle of bumf$&@ nowhere and can just drive without stress or frustration.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It would be interesting to see how many out of those 20,000 ended up in a fatal collision in that period, 15? 10? 0?

If it is about safety it would be more interesting to see if those 20k people were given a warning letter telling them they were speeding...

Or did only the people who need to pay the fine get a letter?

[EVLKNEVL]

My 2c from another thread, it's a little more relevant here:

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

The problem with using money as a deterrent for breaking road rules is that it's something extremely valuable to the government. It's impossible to accept that there are no auxiliary motives for building speed camera networks besides road safety, when it is clearly apparent how much the government stands to gain from them.

This is the foundation of corruption.

It's no coincidence that the independent studies done on this matter (the ones performed by bodies who don't stand to gain financially from them) typically contradict the notion that speed cameras are effective in increasing road safety, in fact many show that speed cameras are actually counter-productive to road safety. I have posted links to such studies on here in the past; they are very thorough, and transparent about how their data is collected and collated.

If the fine money was abolished from every traffic offence and the points system amended to more accurately reflect the severity of individual offences, we could end up with a fair and equitable system which efficiently weeds drivers off the road who demonstrate that they pose a danger thereon, and allows those who use the road wisely and safely to do so in a legitimate environment. But for that to happen the governments would need to stop lusting after money and in particular, money they have not earned and do not deserve.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem with GPS is it requires clear reception of GPS signals which can be a bit of a problem if there was a bit of accidental spurious EMR about. Accelerometers could be used to compensate but they are prone to loss of accuracy after exposure to shock such as from a large hammer.

The whole speed tax game is a balancing act. If the fines become too high they affect the economy thereby reducing tax.

If they slow too many down they reduce the revenue stream with the same result as above.

If they prevented speeding absolutely they would have two problems:
1) Loss of revenue.
2) Explaining why the road toll did not change.

As I have stated many many times, if draconian enforcement of speed was the solution to the road toll then Victoria would have a much lower road toll than all of the other states and territories.

So either the speed cameras are a scam or Victorians are the most stupid people in Australia as they are incapable of using heir own judgement to drive safely.

Now I personally do not think that Victorians really are the most stupid people in Australia but I do wonder why they constantly vote for politicians who keep installing more and more cameras.

It's fun to watch government ministers squirm when major projects go bankrupt due to lack of use
and know it was thanks to forty-leven speed cameras, not the modest tolls attached to actual use.
So funny watching them search for every reason but the obvious.......

[joolz]

Its obvious of either 2 things. Victoria has too many cameras or the limits are set too low. I believe its both. Last I checked we have just over 300 fixed cameras in Melbourne (that's not including mobile) and reduced speed limits all over the place not to mention a 2-3km/h tolerance. Where it used to be 80 its now 70 and so on. That latest news is more fixed cameras are to be introduced to cut the road toll. One would think that going walking pace over the speed limit is the major cause of fatalities the way the Gov is ramming it down our throats but hey it does make them millions.
One big thing that is still confusing me is that if record numbers of drivers are being caught speeding why is the road toll dropping?? The simple data just doesn't add up.

[Night]

So what happens if this GPS thing gets implemented. If go over the speed limit when overtaking you get pinged? I see this causing more road fatalities on the highways.