Why don't we EXEMPT AUSSIE made vehicles from FBT???

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I believe that under international free trade agreements and regulations, you can impose tariffs and special taxes and import restrictions if they are for something that only your country has...such as our record of disease free fruit for instance. We can put in place import restrictions for very good reasons and they take many years of negotiation to get rid of. It took decades to allow foreign bananas and apples into this country, and now they're talking about pineapples, but that will also take many many years.

We are able to do this because we can claim, quite rightly, that we have a special case because of our disease free status to restrict or ban imports, and there is little our opposition overseas can do about it.

However, with cars, well, there's nothing magical about being able to make a car in your country, so there's very little we can do to "stop" imports or severely restrict them without some quite nasty penalties being placed against us for trying to do so.

Meanwhile in Thailand

Ranger Wildtrack 2.2. 1,000,000 Baht (AUD$35k)
Territory Titanium 2.7 3,000,000 Baht (AUD$100k)

Meanwhile in Australia

Ranger Wildtrack 3.2 $62k
Territory Titanium 2.7 $67k

[Wretched]

What about doing something similar to Japan, after say 5 years of ownership the government make it difficult to own/buy/maintain your car through taxes, regular vehicle checks, etc. This would force people to buy newer cars. That should stimulate the purchasing of new cars.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Wretched

What about doing something similar to Japan, after say 5 years of ownership the government make it difficult to own/buy/maintain your car through taxes, regular vehicle checks, etc. This would force people to buy newer cars. That should stimulate the purchasing of new cars.

Hmm...really hoping you're not serious there...

This is a stupid idea that comes up every decade or so, usually put forward by a big auto maker in the name of "safety"...not to boost car sales of course...no, not at all...it's all about safety and the environment...*cough*...

I believe Mazda may have been the last one to suggest it...I think it was Toyota before that. Thankfully (so far...) governments haven't listened to them, but I don't doubt that the day will come...

Basically, please don't give those in power any silly ideas...they come up with enough of their own...

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Wretched

What about doing something similar to Japan, after say 5 years of ownership the government make it difficult to own/buy/maintain your car through taxes, regular vehicle checks, etc. This would force people to buy newer cars. That should stimulate the purchasing of new cars.

Probably because Japan has a massive auto industry and is one of their largest employers which if it falls would destroy their economy.

Maybe removal of FBT from Aussie built vehicles would increase sales through fleets.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Hmm...really hoping you're not serious there...

This is a stupid idea that comes up every decade or so, usually put forward by a big auto maker in the name of "safety"...not to boost car sales of course...no, not at all...it's all about safety and the environment...*cough*...

I believe Mazda may have been the last one to suggest it...I think it was Toyota before that. Thankfully (so far...) governments haven't listened to them, but I don't doubt that the day will come...

Basically, please don't give those in power any silly ideas...they come up with enough of their own...

of course not.
I just wanted to see what reaction it would have from the people that like to jump up and down about people buy imports but themselves have not bought a brand new local car for a lifetime, that much prefer to buy second hand.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Wretched

of course not.
I just wanted to see what reaction it would have from the people that like to jump up and down about people buy imports but themselves have not bought a brand new local car for a lifetime, that much prefer to buy second hand.

That's what I suspected. Well done.
Not many people remember these sort of calls for such rules by the car makers and it's important to remind people that those in power could well bring in such laws for the best intentions at the flick of a government pen...it doesn't seem to pop up in magazines like Street Machine and those dealing with more modern cars. Occasionally over the years they would mention it in Wheels and Motor magazine and similar books.
However, I've been involved in the old (vintage, classic, etc) car movement and been into street rods since I was maybe 15, and just about the only magazine that has been shouting about such ideas when they pop up is "Restored Cars" magazine.
Pick up a copy some time...they have a very good section in each issue called "Is there an old car in your future?", which informs about legislation that's being considered or which exists around the world, which is being talked about in government discussion groups (but which, strangely, is kept pretty quiet from the public).
It's an interesting read...probably because people who's life revolves around classic and vintage cars have the most to lose from ideas like "get cars older than 5 years old off the road".

[Thunder Time]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Small cars and Utes have the biggest demand.

If Toyota are selling Camrys at a $3k loss, then imagine what the amount would be on Corollas.
Utes can be in built Thailand for atleast $10k less over there than here.

You could easily solve the problem by putting a 50% import duty on commercial vehicles.

Suddenly the big three might be able to build something here that people want and actually turn a profit at the same time.

This is what Thailand imposes on the rest of the World.

For imported (new) cars, there are 4 taxes that apply: Import Duty (80%), Excise tax, Interior tax (which is 10% of the calculated excise tax value) and VAT (7%).
If you look at the excise tax structure, the policy enables the most commonly used vehicles by Thais such as motorbikes and working pickups (single and extended cab pickups under 3250cc) to carry negligible tax of 3% (effectively 3.1%) because luxury imported cars carry the most tax; Pickups over 3250cc or greater, E20 compatible and all other cars over 3000cc or >= 220HP are taxed 50% (effectively 111.1%).

Last year, Imports from Thailand were $8.6billion, exports to Thailand were only $5.7b.
Goods vehicles (utes) and cars were $2.7b of that amount.

The exemption of FBT only affects new vehicle sales, so the volume market is fleet buyers, Government Depts, and small businesses. Individuals don't pay FBT on a private car.

The whole idea is to increase sales of local vehicles.

Martin posted the above regarding Thailand.
In the Sunday Telegraph it reported the end of the locally made ute. So far this year Holden has sold around 4000 utes and Ford has sold around 3000 utes. In the same period, we have purchased 100,000 utes from Thailand.

Our vehicles would be much more expensive than a ute made in Thailand, but why can Thailand vehicles come in duty free, yet if we were to send Australian made utes to Thailand, it would be taxed 111% extra? To me, free = free both ways, not one way.

3000 - 4000 vs 100,000 doesn't this suggest something is fundamentally wrong???

If Australia could produce more vehicles, they could turn a profit, which means they no longer need a bailout. 100,000 utes from Thailand alone so far this year.

Cheers
Greg

[castellan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

We can't judge their economies on our standards though. Yes, they will want a better standard of living, they will want a better way of life...however, that doesn't mean them starting to get paid thirty or forty dollars an hour...for them, in their economies, that could well mean going from $1 an hour to $2 or $3 an hour...a simply massive change for them, meaningless from our perspective.

In those countries, even the well off professional workers who live very good lifestyles in a nice area of a city live on a wage that we would call below slave level.

They'll never catch up to us in pay or cost of living, but relative to their situation, they will have better pay and standards of living...just not on the same level of pay as we get. And this is where the problem lies...we are a small western economy slap bang in the middle of large Asian nations teeming with many hundreds of millions of people. We can't throw our weight around (though some politicians in the past have foolishly thought otherwise), and we should just work at doing the best we can and try not to annoy anyone too much.

The famous last words they'll never catch up ! and try not to annoy anyone too much, haha ! you have lost before you have started.

When the USA and the UK go under we are finished, the only hope will be the frogs and germans other than that you can kiss our world good by.

The 3rd world people will never amount to anything but what they are and were. and our younger generation are hopeless fools a Political Correct generation that could not see past their nose as they are so brainwashed and doped up, they have no foundations in truth or reality. as they have no idea how we came to be what we were, a great nation. and it's going to fall if people believe we came from monkeys, they will become just that. just look around ya they are out of control.
Look at how stupid people are, they think it's all about money it's about your inheritance, and not from your parents so much but society as a whole and if you disregard it all you are on the path to destruction.
Look after what you bloody well have and respect it all or you are finished.

[ryeman]

^^^our dairy and grain produce is treated the same way their manufactured goods are. Free trade is a trade off but it seems we are the only truly free trade country (5% on cars excepted) , certainly not the US who preach but don't practice it.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by ryeman

^^^our dairy and grain produce is treated the same way their manufactured goods are. Free trade is a trade off but it seems we are the only truly free trade country (5% on cars excepted) , certainly not the US who preach but don't practice it.

Well the classic example there is Austal Ships. When Australia and the US signed the FTA, Austals thought yippee, we can export some of our catamaran ferries to the US. Until the interest groups and the US Department of Trade stepped in which put the kibosh on any plans for Austal to export anything to the US apart from intellectual property. To get around it, they established a manufacturing facility over there. An expensive, extreme, and in my view unnecessary exercise had the FTA been truly "free" between the US and Australia.

[ryeman]

^^^^when it comes to the ruthless business of international trade I've always felt we are somewhat out of our depth and just a bit naive.
Being well on the way to ditching the manufacturing industry (the big players OS owned) will we end up renters in our own country?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by ryeman

^^^^when it comes to the ruthless business of international trade I've always felt we are somewhat out of our depth and just a bit naive.
Being well on the way to ditching the manufacturing industry (the big players OS owned) will we end up renters in our own country?

Spot on.

Google "free trade taliban" and have a read of the result.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Spot on.

Google "free trade taliban" and have a read of the result.

....in $231 steps.
Tic tic tic ....

[ryeman]

^^^^Oops $231 million at a time

[zilo]

Originally Posted by castellan

The famous last words they'll never catch up ! and try not to annoy anyone too much, haha ! you have lost before you have started.

When the USA and the UK go under we are finished, the only hope will be the frogs and germans other than that you can kiss our world good by.

The 3rd world people will never amount to anything but what they are and were. and our younger generation are hopeless fools a Political Correct generation that could not see past their nose as they are so brainwashed and doped up, they have no foundations in truth or reality. as they have no idea how we came to be what we were, a great nation. and it's going to fall if people believe we came from monkeys, they will become just that. just look around ya they are out of control.
Look at how stupid people are, they think it's all about money it's about your inheritance, and not from your parents so much but society as a whole and if you disregard it all you are on the path to destruction.
Look after what you bloody well have and respect it all or you are finished.

Ahh...good old racism by those born to rule...

"frogs","the 3rd world people" etc...clearly it rolls off the tongue to the point some don't even notice it.

One really great thing about the younger generation is they aren't racist.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by zilo

Ahh...good old racism by those born to rule...

"frogs","the 3rd world people" etc...clearly it rolls off the tongue to the point some don't even notice it.

One really great thing about the younger generation is they aren't racist.

How do you work that out

They call me Froggy and well it's half true sort of as i am. and it does not bother me one bit. and was i bagging them ? no not at all.

I call my self an Aussie but i think that's not PC with todays nit pickers so called educated and i think it's like we must be called an Australian so not to offend the snobs and we had snobs back in the 60's to you know. samething just with a different trendy spin on it that's all.
Facts are facts and this nation is going down hill fast and people are too stuck up to face up to it all. the gov don't really support Australia at all, now do they, as was the point i was making and it had nothing to do with what you are pushing at all. all the nations that made the progress we now have is due to what we must do in the future and anything other just does not work.
If you built up a business you would know or should know what made it great and what will destroy it all.
But most wage earning people would not know that, now do they as they just runaround spinning short sighted rubbish day in day out. and it's people like that who are the problem, with their big ego driven dribble and not a clue about reality.
We looked after our nation once and it grew and if we did what we are doing today it would of been nothing but some backward nothing.
My grandad only let his child stay in this nation because it had England behind it all and there was hope for a future, due to the foundations built on it.
And if you can't comprehend that you have no hope but to just keep spining what ever dribble you want.
Oow modern day leftys never built nothing and never will and i did bag the younger gen, and what would you call that ? yes yet another stupid simpelton taboo that's draged out to hide away from the truth.

Yes Australians must unight and stand up for themselves, because no one other will, that for sure.
What ! the UN ?

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Oh FFS
I guarantee you, when the mining boom finally levels out, the European & USA economies recover, the AUD is again at 50c, and the emerging Chinese middle-class forces their currency up, many people will rue the day we disembowelled our manufacturing industry.

Well done to you CD and to LTD and all those who can see what the effect of (deliberate) policy will do to the long term wealth of this nation. To have wealth you MUST have Production. Make conditions hostile to Production and it will leave.

What is happening now has happened before, probably again and again. A resources boom busts (1920's-30's) and leaves a generation of Australians impoverished. A government realises the strife it's in and develops policies to MAKE THINGS HERE. Not direct mandate as such, just encourages the conditions where manufacture and agriculture can flourish. In time, capital, capital equipment and project design accumulate, and jobs are created. Wages rise.

This time around, we are > 95% foreign owned, we are subject to UN policy to direct economic opportunity to "developing nations" as we hollow out our own. I hope that we can, like Peter Reith said on the radio this morning, transition to a "tertiary economy" fully. BUT, if you look at the US currently, they had a look at that, didn't like what they saw and are going hell for leather back into a manufacturing renaissance, gas production, etc etc. As is the UK - look at their car makers come back, and yes, it's government creating the conditions to create, and export.

So, inquiring minds sit around and wait for it all to collapse, biding their time for wages to adjust (you can have fantastic conditions, but if your employer goes bust, so do the conditions), land prices for productive businesses to fall, AUD to drift lower; getting that mechanised production model right, and for conditions to become favourable to produce here...

[ryeman]

[QUOTE=castellan;4923928]




Facts are facts ........./QUOTE]

As long as Alan Jones says so as opposed to actual scientists who apparently know nothing .....EH?

Remember, only some facts are actually facts.