Petrol vehicles now added to VW scandal

[mooseman]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

When will they have a fix?
Did you hear about the new lawsuit today? Class action is going after a full refund plus dollars for the fraud committed against its customers.
When a customer comes in for service are they informed their cars doesn't comply with emission laws and they risk heavy fines for driving it?
Do you feel bad about killing the whales?

Ok I'll break it down.

1. We don't know when they will have a fix. What they have confirmed is that all affected diesel engines are still within the legal guidelines in Australia. Therefore at this stage it is more of a false advertising issue rather than illegally high emissions. Given this is the case, any recall will be voluntary. If you would prefer lower emissions then get it done, if you don't care then just ignore it.

2. I read about the law suit, I wasn't at work today. No idea if they will achieve anything given the above information.

3. See answer 1, not breaking any emission laws if the word we have been given.

4. I don't know any whales so lack the connection.

[mooseman]

I'd also like to comment on the fuel consumption discussion in the topic. I'm lucky enough to drive a different car every few weeks. Although I work at a VW dealer, we stock all types of used cars and being that I am in management I can commandeer almost anything I like.

I've driven hundreds of cars from just about every make and model under 100k in the last 5-6 years and can tell you that almost none consistently achieve quoted fuel consumption figures. Funnily enough VW and Ford are two of the best at quoting whilst almost all the Japanese brands are horrendously bad. I have no idea if the amount of fuel consumed directly relates to the emission output but it would be interesting to know.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by mooseman

1. We don't know when they will have a fix. What they have confirmed is that all affected diesel engines are still within the legal guidelines in Australia. Therefore at this stage it is more of a false advertising issue rather than illegally high emissions. Given this is the case, any recall will be voluntary. If you would prefer lower emissions then get it done, if you don't care then just ignore it.

TPA says consumer has the right to a refund.

[mooseman]

I don't know what the TPA is


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[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by mooseman

Ok I'll break it down.

1. We don't know when they will have a fix. What they have confirmed is that all affected diesel engines are still within the legal guidelines in Australia. Therefore at this stage it is more of a false advertising issue rather than illegally high emissions. Given this is the case, any recall will be voluntary. If you would prefer lower emissions then get it done, if you don't care then just ignore it.

2. I read about the law suit, I wasn't at work today. No idea if they will achieve anything given the above information.

3. See answer 1, not breaking any emission laws if the word we have been given.

4. I don't know any whales so lack the connection.

Thanks for answering however I would just be careful on what you say to be honest.

But regarding that lawsuit it does have very good grounds even though it doesnt break any emissions laws. Interested to see how it goes.

Trade Practices Act 1974.

[ozpacman]

What I wonder about the whole thing is how the other car manufacturers will fare once the focus of these studies moves on from Volkswagen.

My wife has a Hyundai i30 diesel and it's a great little car, but have they all been fudging these emissions tests to get through, or has VW been claiming emissions which were considerably less than everyone else?

Volkswagen is hardly some dodgy back yard type of operation, so I wonder how all of the other car companies have come up with their numbers?

[mooseman]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

Thanks for answering however I would just be careful on what you say to be honest.



But regarding that lawsuit it does have very good grounds even though it doesnt break any emissions laws. Interested to see how it goes.



Trade Practices Act 1974.

No problem. What I've said is common enough knowledge that anyone will find out speaking to a dealer but I've got no idea on the lawsuit. 100m sounds like small fry in the grand scheme though tbh.


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[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by mooseman

No problem. What I've said is common enough knowledge that anyone will find out speaking to a dealer but I've got no idea on the lawsuit. 100m sounds like small fry in the grand scheme though tbh.


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Yeap 100M is small for sure, however all the little bits around the world will add up. VW will take a hit for sure however they are too big. Read, before taxes they made €6.1 billion in 2014

People will make some money out of this because they can I mean allot in the lawsuit wouldnt have signed up because they actually care about emissions. And because no enough people care about emissions once the dust settles VW will be fine and most will not care.

[mooseman]

My completely unfounded thoughts are that VW are such an integral part of the German economy and as such the Eu economy that there is no court in the land that will impose a crippling sanction.


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[zilo]

Originally Posted by russellw

I'm not sorry and I'm not letting your crap go unchallenged.

The ADR37 test that we use to establish fuel consumption figures covers only 17.77 km at an average speed of 34.1 km/h and uses 95RON fuel for all petrol cars.

On that basis the figures supplied above are as representative of real world conditions as the ADR test - indeed they are probably harsher conditions.

Even if we actually start to use the NEDC standard it hardly gets much more onerous -

The NEDC entails putting the vehicle through four urban ECE-15 cycles and an extra-urban EUDC cycle. Each urban cycle lasts 200 seconds and covers 1.013 km at speeds of up to 50 km/h, averaging 18.7 km/h.

The single-phase EUDC extra-urban cycle is 400 seconds long, covers 6.955 km at speeds of up to 120 km/h. It averages out at 62.6 km/h however we are currently arguing for a modified EUDC in Australia (given the 120 km/h exceeds our open road speed limit) to lower maximum speed.

For fuel economy, the first four ECE-15 phases are combined to give the urban fuel consumption figures and the highway cycle comes from the last 400 seconds of the test. The combined-cycle figure comes from the entire 1200 second cycle, as do CO2 emissions figures.

Even using the unmodified Euro standard, the combined figure equates to an average speed of 33.58 km/h.

My EcoLPi betters it's quoted figures (12.4 Combined, 18.3 Urban, 9.0 Extra Urban) and has done pretty much since new and yes, I have an average speed that is much higher than the EUDC figure.

Russ

Who cares about that ADR Russell?


The original quote was...

" Ford quotes per ADR81/02 for 6 speed manual 11.1 lt/100kms"

For him to to say he exceeds that ADR he must meet exactly the same test criteria.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I have shown that my car in everyday driving can easily better the published manufacturers fuel economy figure which people generally refer to. Regardless of how the published figure is derived.

Sorry mate, that proves your car can be economical, but doesn't prove you do better than they did in the same test conditions and your results are not those that an ADR is based on.

How could we use your test as a comparison to how well a Commodore does in the same test?

I could roll pottery beige's clap box off a cliff and say it gets better than the published figures but the test conditions would hardly be the same would they?

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by FGX335

I heard that the boss at the time would tell someone to do something, and if it couldn't be done, threaten that there were plenty of other people who could. People worry about losing their jobs, are being asked to be fuel efficient, up on power, and down on emissions. You can't do it all, so you cut corners and end up in this mess.

Running a company that way was always going to get you in major trouble, blind Freddy could see it coming a mile away.

I just read Peter Robinson's column in the latest Wheels. Robinson has interviewed Ferdinand Piech several times over the years and it was him that made those demands/threats you're talking about.

The example in the column - "I've set the engineers a target: I've told them the Phaeton's cabin must be able to maintain 22 degrees in 50 degree outside temperatures while being driven all day at 200km/h"

This demand was made back in 1999, and when asked what would happen if the engineers were unable to achieve it Piech replied that he would "fire them all and bring in a new team, and if they tell me they can't do it, I will fire them, too."

He was also the man who set the Veyron's specs before any work had even started on it's design - 1000hp and 400km/h+ top speed. He was widely criticised at the time for setting the specs of a car first rather than reach them organically...

Piech was recently forced off the VW board in a power struggle with the VW CEO, which was big news in itself.

So this seems like a good example of a rotten corporate culture that starts right at the top. VAG have reached the position they have because of driven people like Piech, but now we're learning the true cost. Mark my words though, no one will go to jail over this. Some people probably should, but the people responsible will get off scott-free, the company as a whole taking the brunt which will be solely financial in nature.

I must admit, it's somewhat smugly enjoyable watching them fall...

[Express]

Volkswagen emissions scandal: 'This will take time'


Emissions scandal hits home at Los Angeles motor show as German car maker's American boss is swamped by the media.


Toby Hagon
20 November, 2015




Michael Horn, President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America talks to the media at the Los Angeles Auto Show on Wednesday, Nov. 18, 2015, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Chris Carlson) Photo: Chris Carlson


He's fronted a hostile US Congress and endured rumours he would be sacked. But the forthright boss of Volkswagen America, Michael Horn, had to fend off a determined media pack at the 2015 Los Angeles motor show keen for answers about the Dieselgate emissions scandal that continues to engulf the German car maker.



Volkswagen AG 2016 vehicles are display during the Los Angeles Auto Show in Los Angeles, California, U.S., on Wednesday, Nov. 18, 2015. The 2015 LA Auto Show will be open to the public from Nov. 20-29. Photographer: Daniel Acker/Bloomberg Photo: Daniel Acker


Horn – most famous for frankly admitting Volkswagen "totally screwed up" in the days following the sensational breaking of the emissions scandal - was swamped by TV cameras, recording devices and camera clicks once his carefully prepared 20-minute media address had concluded at the LA Convention Center.

Within two minutes his minders asked the heaving media contingent to move back before Horn exited the Volkswagen stage, refusing to answer more questions. He was followed briefly by the media pack before stopping for another brief statement that suggested he wouldn't be fronting the barrage of questions.

Noticeably absent from the Volkswagen presentation were any German-based executives; at the Tokyo motor show two weeks earlier newly appointed Volkswagen cars boss Dr Herbert Diess spent more than 10 minutes responding to questions from the media.



Michael Horn, President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America talks to the media at the Los Angeles Auto Show on Wednesday, Nov. 18, 2015, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Chris Carlson) Photo: Chris Carlson


There was a rumour at the show that some had pulled out of a planned visit days before through fear they may be detained in the US.

Horn opened his speech at the show with an update on the company's progress in finding a solution to the emissions scandal, which found many 2.0-litre diesel engines were emitting up to 40 times the permitted levels of harmful nitrogen oxides.

"I wanted to update you on where we are regarding the TDI and diesel emissions issue," he began.

"Volkswagen continues to work very hard on approved remedies for the 2.0-litre four-cylinder TDI engine affected by the September 18 … Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Californian Air Resources Board (CARB) notices."

The short story is that there isn't much of an update, other than a variation on the well worn line that "I can tell you nothing is more important to me personally than the satisfaction of our customers and making things right".

"We will take care of our customers but this will take time and this responsibility is one that I don't take lightly."

"My primary task is to push that things are made right and I can assure you that all of us are working entirely towards a singular goal. We are working closely with EPA and CARB, we have been cooperating fully with the regulators and we will continue to do so in the most transparent and open way possible.

"We are hopeful we will be able to announce something soon about the remedies that we have identified and which we are discussing with the agencies in the upcoming days. This continues to be an immediate priority.

Horn said customers were being kept up to date of developments at the www.vwdieselinfo.com micro site and that they were being compensated with a US$500 prepaid Visa "loyalty card", a US$500 "Volkswagen dealership card" and three years of roadside assistance – three things not currently being offered to Australian Volkswagen customers.

"Many of our customers obviously are worried about their vehicles and we are committed to do what's necessary," said Horn, saying 120,000 of nearly 500,000 affected customers had accepted the offer. "This is just another step … that satisfy our customers and the government."

"We've apologised and we can't stop apologising … we clearly understand apologies are not enough," he said, adding that Volkswagen remains "fully committed" to the US market.

"I understand and I appreciate the impact that these recent revelations have had on our customers, our dealers and the US public at large. There is frustration and there is some anger but also support from lots of our Volkswagen customers. And all these reactions are fully understandable since everybody at Volkswagen America lives exactly through the same emotions."

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/v...20-gl3xwi.html

[Bossxr8]

The 3 litre V6 diesel has now been implicated as having a cheat device fitted. This just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

[Express]

Volkswagen announces emissions fix


German giant reveals its plans to solve NOx exhaust problems.


Stephen Ottley
26 November, 2015


See link below for video.


More than two months after the scandal broke publicly, Volkswagen has revealed its solution for most of the engines affected by the NOx emissions cheat.

The company has detailed plans to fix both the 1.6-litre and 2.0-litre versions of its EA189 turbo diesel four-cylinder engines that were exposed as having software installed to circumvent emissions testing.



Volkswagen has revealed this diagram of the solution to fix its emissions cheating EA189 engines. Photo: Supplied


VW Australia announced on October 9 that it would recall more than 77,000 Volkswagen and Skoda cars fitted with the EA189 engines despite not having a solution to the problem at the time. Sister brand Audi also confirmed that 14,000 vehicles in Australia are also affected.

Globally more than 11 millions cars need to be fixed across VW Group's Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda and Seat brands.

The 1.6-litre engine needs changes to its hardware, with a "flow transformer" added to the engine.



The 'flow transformer' or piece of mesh that Volkswagen says will be used to fix its rigged 1.6 litre diesel engines. Photo: Supplied


VW explained in the press release: "This is a mesh that calms the swirled air flow in front of the air mass sensor and will thus decisively improve the measuring accuracy of the air mass sensor. The air mass sensor determines the current air mass throughput, which is a very important parameter for the engine management for an optimum combustion process."

In addition the engine also requires a software upgrade.

VW claims this fix will take "less than one hour" to install.

The 2.0-litre version of the EA189 only needs the software updated and VW claims this will take "around half an hour" to do.

Volkswagen has also set a "target" of "no adverse effects" on fuel consumption and performance but stopped short of confirming this would be the case until final validation testing has been completed.

The software upgrades will begin in January 2016 but no timeframe has been given for when the 1.6-litre hardware solution can begin being implemented.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/v...24-gl6fd6.html

[Angeldust]

lol a cheat device to cheat the cheat device...hahahaha

[mik]

clean emission volkwagen ?

[boss351290]

Now imagine if every diesel VW had to have their dirty Diesel engines ripped out and a 5 litre supercharged falcon engine fitted in its place. This would be the result.
1. Everybody in Australia would have a job.
2. Everybody driving a ex diesel VW would have a smile on their face.
3. The air we breathe would be cleaner.
Sounds like a great idea.