Why is Ford really giving up on Falcon and Territory?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Simple?

SIMPLE?

Actually, in reality it's due to a huge number of complex and interwoven reasons, but according to you its simple? The length of your own post contradicts that straight off the bat.

There are elements of truth to everything you've said, hence the positive response to your post. But the reasons you've listed vary from minor to all but irrelevant when compared to the main reason we're losing our industry - and that is because we never had one! It was always owned by offshore interests with no interest in Australia or Australians. It was them who decided their bottom line would improve if they closed little ole aussie down (in large part due to government policies - like I said, interwoven... And you mentioned this also) so they steered our industry to its demise via decades of carefully planned product decisions which made blaming the closures on all kinds of reasons except the real ones the eventual outcome.

Simple hey.

I recommend you see a specialist about an irony transplant. The very fact that you missed the sarcastic "simple" in a complex response is more an indictment upon yourself than I, and the manner at which you wish to nitpick my response to claim some kind of victim status is the epitome of ignorance - "little ole aussie" (sic). Pathetic.

You say Ford was never Australian?
Technically correct, but the support of local industry was Australian, the thousands of jobs over the years were Australian and the products manufactured were Australian, with the highest Australian content of any locally made vehicle.

Before you respond with "but they send the profits overseas", well for years now there has been no profits to send. Fact is, Ford has affected many hundreds of thousands of lives in a positive sense through employment, R&D, training, sponsorship, apprenticeships etc, and the on flow effect to countless other third party industries. To deny Fords contribution to Australia over the years is both foolish and petulant in the extreme. Your gripe seems to be that Ford USA has decided to stop sending more of their money to subsidize Ford Australia losing money. Do you think they're obliged to throw good money after bad continuously? Tell me, if Ford was selling falcons in record numbers and making a profit, do you think they'd still be closing down?

Frankly your handout mentality is what's killing this nation, as through all the rebates, subsidies and the like mean over one third of taxpayers pay no net tax thanks to support from the "gubbmint". Yet, if we're to believe you it's all Ford USA's fault for picking on "little ole aussie"?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by ltd

I recommend you see a specialist about an irony transplant. The very fact that you missed the sarcastic "simple" in a complex response is more an indictment upon yourself than I, and the manner at which you wish to nitpick my response to claim some kind of victim status is the epitome of ignorance - "little ole aussie" (sic). Pathetic.

You say Ford was never Australian?
Technically correct, but the support of local industry was Australian, the thousands of jobs over the years were Australian and the products manufactured were Australian, with the highest Australian content of any locally made vehicle.

Before you respond with "but they send the profits overseas", well for years now there has been no profits to send. Fact is, Ford has affected many hundreds of thousands of lives in a positive sense through employment, R&D, training, sponsorship, apprenticeships etc, and the on flow effect to countless other third party industries. To deny Fords contribution to Australia over the years is both foolish and petulant in the extreme. Your gripe seems to be that Ford USA has decided to stop sending more of their money to subsidize Ford Australia losing money. Do you think they're obliged to throw good money after bad continuously? Tell me, if Ford was selling falcons in record numbers and making a profit, do you think they'd still be closing down?

Frankly your handout mentality is what's killing this nation, as through all the rebates, subsidies and the like mean over one third of taxpayers pay no net tax thanks to support from the "gubbmint". Yet, if we're to believe you it's all Ford USA's fault for picking on "little ole aussie"?

Well said, again.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

But it seems Australia's population has little to no national pride or patriotism. They wouldn't give a flying proverbial about whether they were buying Australian made, or some cheap Thai, Korean, Chinese overpriced factory second assembled with slave labour. Nobody was ever moved to tears by our national anthem, can't recall the last time someone draped themselves in our national flag. People of ethnic origin often identify themselves by their home country, and don't even call themselves Australian. Australia once was the best place to live, but then unions, greenies, political correctness and greed brought this country to its knees and we have lost many things which once made this country great, Falcon being one of them.

According to the Greens, the Falcon is a gas guzzler and makes Gaia cry. They prefer the more environmentally responsible Prius with its magic batteries made from leprechaun tears and pixie dust.

On another note, cumulatively over several hundred visits I've spent a couple of years in the USA, and the patriotism there is a beautiful thing. Oddly enough before I worked there I was in Montana when 911 happened, and strangers of all origins were in tears, comforting each other as it wasn't an attack just on New York, it was an attack on every single American. My greatest shame as an Aussie was when CBS showed where scenes of people celebrating the attack were taking place in locations like Iran, Palestine and then no joke Campsie. We have no patriotism in this nation and whilst many celebrate the spirit of the Anzac, it goes no further than lip-service on April 25th.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by ltd

I recommend you see a specialist about an irony transplant. The very fact that you missed the sarcastic "simple" in a complex response is more an indictment upon yourself than I, and the manner at which you wish to nitpick my response to claim some kind of victim status is the epitome of ignorance - "little ole aussie" (sic). Pathetic.

You say Ford was never Australian?
Technically correct, but the support of local industry was Australian, the thousands of jobs over the years were Australian and the products manufactured were Australian, with the highest Australian content of any locally made vehicle.

Before you respond with "but they send the profits overseas", well for years now there has been no profits to send. Fact is, Ford has affected many hundreds of thousands of lives in a positive sense through employment, R&D, training, sponsorship, apprenticeships etc, and the on flow effect to countless other third party industries. To deny Fords contribution to Australia over the years is both foolish and petulant in the extreme. Your gripe seems to be that Ford USA has decided to stop sending more of their money to subsidize Ford Australia losing money. Do you think they're obliged to throw good money after bad continuously? Tell me, if Ford was selling falcons in record numbers and making a profit, do you think they'd still be closing down?

Frankly your handout mentality is what's killing this nation, as through all the rebates, subsidies and the like mean over one third of taxpayers pay no net tax thanks to support from the "gubbmint". Yet, if we're to believe you it's all Ford USA's fault for picking on "little ole aussie"?

Ok fair call, the irony slipped past me, I blame the wine.

As for the rest of your post, refer to my most recent post. I get all that, I really do. But at the end of the day is Detroits duty and responsibility to maximise profit, which is what the closure decision is all about when you really get down to it.

And the handout mentality I supposedly have? Well now you've gone and lost me again...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by ltd

According to the Greens, the Falcon is a gas guzzler and makes Gaia cry. They prefer the more environmentally responsible Prius with its magic batteries made from leprechaun tears and pixie dust.

On another note, cumulatively over several hundred visits I've spent a couple of years in the USA, and the patriotism there is a beautiful thing. Oddly enough before I worked there I was in Montana when 911 happened, and strangers of all origins were in tears, comforting each other as it wasn't an attack just on New York, it was an attack on every single American. My greatest shame as an Aussie was when CBS showed where scenes of people celebrating the attack were taking place in locations like Iran, Palestine and then no joke Campsie. We have no patriotism in this nation and whilst many celebrate the spirit of the Anzac, it goes no further than lip-service on April 25th.

Patriotism died a very long time ago in Australia. I contend that it died for multiple reasons, one of those being the disconnect the country had with Great Britain during the late 1970's through to the 1980's. The reverence for Blighty waned in that time and as the patriotic streak of the nation was intimately tied to "king/queen and country", so did the sense of pride one might have had.

The void left by it was unfortunately filled with mindless consumerism and a serious case of affluenza, with an obvious symptom being a snobbery towards local cars.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Patriotism died a very long time ago in Australia. I contend that it died for multiple reasons, one of those being the disconnect the country had with Great Britain during the late 1970's through to the 1980's. The reverence for Blighty waned in that time and as the patriotic streak of the nation was intimately tied to "king/queen and country", so did the sense of pride one might have had.

The void left by it was unfortunately filled with mindless consumerism and a serious case of affluenza, with an obvious symptom being a snobbery towards local cars.

I couldn't agree more - and I type that as I again laugh at your avatar beginning the whole triiglypuff guilt reconciliation process again.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by ltd

I couldn't agree more - and I type that as I again laugh at your avatar beginning the whole triiglypuff guilt reconciliation process again.

Are you daft, you can't reconcile guilt caused by humor!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SVR73

Well said. The quality buyers in Australia are few and I'm one of them and I see the value in a more expensive, better quality product
Some of today's generation just want cheap, all they hear on the radio every day is cheap cheap cheap. But a lot of it is crap stuff
It started with the rug sellers then harvey Norman, now it's national tiles and that frank ******.

All they care about is the price and many people just don't think about what it's costing them.
Like buying home brand milk instead of Paul's or the really good stuff from farmers markets
To most it's justmilk, no difference. To me, I like the quality stuff and supporting local dairy farmers
In my industry, a detailer can buy A really cheap polisher for fifty bucks
But can he do work as good as me with eleven Japanese and German made machines that are built to last and one cost me 800 dollars and is the worlds most advanced of its type. The latest ones are built like tanks and worth every dollar I paid for them. Yet some would rather buy ten fifty dollar polishers than me buying one to last as long

My work will be superior, faster, eliminates the need for cutting compounds and same price or only a little more

The Asian tv manufacturers killed the tv and video service industry with their, we no like service speech at a convention several years ago. It's gone from make a great product that lasts years or decades and building a reputation of reliability to make it cheap and make them buy it over and over again

For me it seems to be the older generation complaining about prices on the batteries, I've had it four times now and its been baby boomers squealing sbout $150 for a new one.

Mind you im cheaper than Bursons/SCA on the same battery and Im cheaper than RACV and RACV batteries are cheap crap.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by ltd

It's the same here with our auto industry. In Australia millions have bought Kia's, Hyundai's, Chery's - all manner of poxy-boxy Asian poo to save a buck. This action has seen less demand for Australian cars which additionally have a cultural cringe factor attached to them as "bogan cars".
For those who like to pose, they've spent more on cars like Audi, Mercedes, VW, BMW as Euro is obviously superior to anything we do here - even though all the lower end models are manufactured in Asia or other third world nations under license - but hey, idiots with more dollars than sense don't want to look like a bogan.

As long as I can remember the only Australian made vehicles are mid-large sedans, road going utes and medium road going SUV. What is that like a quarter of all vehicles on the road? Probably even less looking at just new vehicle sales. So if you want to buy in any other category of vehicle you are forced to buy a foreign vehicle.
Look at the most popular categories on the road. Small- mid hatchbacks,
small SUV's and dual cab 4x4. They all seam to be well represented on the average street.
You can't expect Australian made cars to be popular when there are not Australian vehicles in the categories that everyone wants.

[Crazy Dazz]

Perhaps getting a little of topic, but there are complex issues at play in the wider scheme of things. Sixty years ago, Ford put a couple of guys on a boat, sent them to Australia and left them to it, with the occasional telegram. Selling the most cars meant building locally for the local market. Now its all about globalisation.
Would a "locally owned" company have persisted with RWD sedans and wagons? Not necessarily, and certainly not only for the tiny Australian market. Perhaps a smaller company would have more aggressively pursued export opportunities, but then again I'm not so sure.

There probably was some internal politics involved. The gnomes at Ford ousted Nasser and worked hard to unravel his legacy. But at the end of the day, they are profit driven, like anyone else. Its as well to note that GM and Toyota also have, or will, nixed their export programs.

Nor do I think its necessarily about Patriotism. I love the Falcon and my TTG because they are unique and, in their own way, great cars. Yes, I'd prefer to see Focus built here (instead of SA? or Thailand) but should I have to pay a lot extra for that?

I'm NOT in favour of government handouts per se, however it is beholden on the government to manage the economy, and that is where they have failed.

For some reason, Keating decided it was too hard to do what every other country does and manage their currency, so he'd just let the market have at it. That has turned the AUD into the fiscal equivalent of a roller-coaster. Investing and manufacturing in Australia has become perilous. When the AUD is high, cheap imports decimate local industry and exports become unprofitable, but no sooner do we adjust to the new reality, and the dollar plummets, leaving us all paying through the nose. Yet no subsequent government can be bothered to fix it.

Australian governments would sell their Grandmother for a Hippy vote, so responsible, well-managed, compliant, Australian industry is sold down the river in favour of filthy ****-piles in Asia. This to me is the most tragic irony of all. I actually DO care about our environment. I want to see less pollution, cleaner engines, and responsible industry. But the NIMBY lobby is ensuring not only that production is shifted to dirty factories in Asia, but also that the results are shipped here on filthy great oil-burning ships.

Successive governments have presided over the development of an economy that is simply not conducive to manufacturing. The cost of living for workers is far too high, as are taxes, leading to Australian labour simply being too expensive. Unlike most countries, we offer no form of export incentive, in fact we PENALISE companies that want to manufacture here and export. The roller-coaster currency makes corporations reluctant to invest in new technology, so our manufacturing lags behind, until its ultimately uncompetitive. The corporate tax rate in Australia is simply too high, which simply leads to the large companies shifting their profit back overseas.

I'm all for global trade. There are things that Australia shouldn't bother manufacturing. But has it happens, I think steel, alloys, and things made from steel and alloy (like cars) are things that we SHOULD be making for export.

Every few years, governments will start sprouting on about "innovation" or being "The Clever Country" but what's the point?
Back in the 70's Australian universities were at the leading edge of Electronic Engineering, and the brightest minds from Asia came here to study. Now many don't even bother offering the courses, because our government has let that entire industry pass us by. What is the flaming point in "innovating"? Ideas will only employ a handful of people. Then if you're extremely fortunately, you'll strike it lucky and be able to sell your idea overseas.

Ultimately the problem is simply that for a 100 years we have alternated between two forms of government:
Labor, who have blindly followed whatever Marx, the unions, and now the Hippies, tell them to do.
And the Liberals, who like to parade around the world feeling important, whilst believing that Magical Pixie Dust will take care of the economy if you deregulate everything.
If I suggested "deregulating" road laws, ie anybody can drive anything they want, wherever they want, whenever they want, in whatever direction they want, no licenses, no speed limits, no roads, or traffic lights, men in white coats would come for me. But apparently that's just fine & dandy for something as trivial and inconsequential as our national economy.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Perhaps getting a little of topic, but there are complex issues at play in the wider scheme of things. Sixty years ago, Ford put a couple of guys on a boat, sent them to Australia and left them to it, with the occasional telegram. Selling the most cars meant building locally for the local market. Now its all about globalisation.
Would a "locally owned" company have persisted with RWD sedans and wagons? Not necessarily, and certainly not only for the tiny Australian market. Perhaps a smaller company would have more aggressively pursued export opportunities, but then again I'm not so sure.

60 years ago? You do realise we have been building Fords here since 1925 don't you?

The original idea to do that was Henry's philosophy of building where you sold them.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Sorry while you may get strong local profits you get zero innovation or research and development as companies are lazy without competition.
Do you seriously think FPV would have spent $40 million developing the BOSS 335 if HSV didn't exist? We'd still be driving 185 kw Windsor and be told we where lucky!
The old nationalists economic argument is great for the heart strings but the global economy has proven it to be a fairies tale over and over in the last 20 years.

So where are we now then, with next to no manufacturing industry?

You waiting for the next big innovation in exporting raw materials?

Whats that look like?

You are citing an innovation that only exists because people bought the production in an earlier period (the $40M Maimi investment)

I import stuff when there is nothing suitable local; there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We don't have to go without, or make do with substandard, if no local alternatives exist.

But when there are superior locally made offerings, but are marginally dearer than the alternative foreign production, I would love to see people considering their choice

I bought a brand new locally made car in 2010 (GT). It suited my needs and was only slightly dearer because it was produced in Australia with all the extra costs and challenges associated with the same.

If I was in market now, I am afraid I could not buy the current Falcon. For me, it has fallen too far behind the market to be considered. I would absolutely consider it though, I consider it my duty and an Australian, but after this I would probably have to buy and import. I put that down to the rest of the country letting me down and not buying in the previous period, which would have created demand for further investment.

Some people are poor, so need the cheapest the globe can offer

Some people have specific tastes/requirement, that local can't offer

But when you see a locally made offering that is comparable, give it a look in

Buy local when you can

I can't believe some people are able to push back on this concept.

We are a very very small economy. We are not going to make it if people don't change their attitudes. Strap yourself in to be an impoverished Nation if you aren't prepared to be part of the solution

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Where do I start....

Firstly, you're completely right - if everyone bought local at every opportunity then the market would follow suit. That's basic free market economics.

But focusing on the auto industry, why do you think it is that people haven't been buying local? Fickle tastes, buyers blindly following trends buying inferior cars? That may be true, but it's a free market. The manufacturers that adapt and shift to suit the market will survive, the ones that don't, won't.

Ford and Holden chose not to adapt - they kept building cars that haven't been popular for over a decade. But it wasn't Ford Australia or Holden that made that decision - it was made for them in Detroit.

Ford have wanted to pull out of Australian manufacturing for decades, that's no secret. They weren't able to however because the local product was so popular (which backs up your & LTD's theory) Ford Australia even convinced Detroit to be allowed to build the Territory, an example of adapting to a changing marketplace. All good so far.

But as the market continued to fragment and evolve, FOA actually stripped back their offerings and froze development on the Territory. Detroit knew exactly what they were doing - offer less choice, and less popular ones at that. Local sales predictably nose dived. This allowed them to pull out of local manufacture. What else would they do, sales are dismal! No one's buying local! Ford in Detroit get what they wanted all along - a cheaper place to build cars. (And this relates back to the government aspect LTD talked about in his post. I could talk about that for hours as well, I've read a few books...)

Why all the smoke and mirrors and boardroom scheming? Why not just close it down? Transitions like this are tough. Closing a factory shines a bad light on the brand. It has to be managed very carefully.

If everyone kept buying Falcon sedans, wagons, utes, vans, Fairlaines, LTD's, and Territory's in 1990's numbers, they would have kept building them. But should the buying public really be blamed for not buying a car that's utterly unsuitable for their needs? If we had our own industry, locally owned, they would have adapted to the current market, but FOA were never allowed to.

Forget about where the profits (and losses) flow from our foreign owned auto industry. For the purpose of this discussion that isn't so relevant. What is relevant is where the big product decisions were made, and why they were made. Understand that and you'll understand why Ford are really giving up on Falcon and Territory.

I agree with your assessment of the demise of Ford building cars in this country

I resent Ford for its approach, by managing the perceptions instead of the strategy and the process, they did a disservice to everyone. They should have been upfront from the outset, rather than quietly scuttling it from within.

Unfortunately in the new world of global trade we def wouldn't set up auto manufacturing now, it wouldn't be doable. No amount of nationalistic purchasing decisions could turn around the fundamentals that make that so. But given it was here, we should have all done more to try and keep it. I honestly think theoretically the industry could have made it if by some strange miracle everyone could have a crash course in economics, and understand that it would have been worth it.

The benefits are lost forever now.

What needs to change is people need to place some value on the fact that something is produced locally, and what that means.

Everyone will value that differently, but to me to value it at $0.00 is dumb in the extreme.

I would pay $2 for a can of local food, rather than $1 for an identical import

I don't expect everyone to pay that much of a premium, but everyone simply must place some value on this.

If anyone would pass on a local product for $1.01 over a foreign one for $1, then they should get in the bin where they belong

The economic utility you derive from something is often greater than the obvious consumption of that item. Just like people seemingly over pay for a piece of cardboard that is a birthday card. The fact is they don't overpay once you factor in the non-financial gain you get from the laugh or other emotion the recipient will get. Off topic I know, but stick with me. In a similar way, knowing that you are helping the economy along when you buy local should be valued, and paid for.

Just because the value does not flow directly to you in the immediate term, does not mean it won't in time flow back to you. Because if everyone did the same the cycle would continue.

You don't have to buy everything local, but if you can, try to

[richardxr8]

You don't have to buy everything local, but if you can, try to..

If you want to live in a country that makes stuff, you need to buy stuff your country makes....

Ive done my bit, too many local Fords in the last 10 years. Even some of the Red teams stuff when it was almost worthy (Monaro looked nice !)

Anyone that bought anything else contributed to the demise.....

[drz250]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Funny how DRZ250 (Hulk) starts threads then disappears....

Sorry I don't spend my entire life online to please you.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

I agree with your assessment of the demise of Ford building cars in this country

Well I'm glad someone here does!

Just a quick one cause its late and I'm on my phone... I'm on-board with pretty much your entire post, and strangely, with most of everything else posted on this thread as well. I've been called part of the problem - as someone who drives a VF Holden, who owns some insanely expensive Australian made pieces of furniture, and who buys Australian made music on an almost weekly basis to name just a few examples, I find that pretty bizarre to put it politely. Oh and don't forget the wine, I buy a lot of Aussie wine too...

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by ltd

Tell me, if Ford was selling falcons in record numbers and making a profit, do you think they'd still be closing down?

I'll tell you, the answer is 100% no. Why? Too many unique platforms in Ford, all of which required R&D so Mullaly introduced the One Ford concept. A perfect example is the US Focus, a very good seller but it was dropped for the superior Euro Focus.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Kieron

I'll tell you, the answer is 100% no. Why? Too many unique platforms in Ford, all of which required R&D so Mullaly introduced the One Ford concept. A perfect example is the US Focus, a very good seller but it was dropped for the superior Euro Focus.

100% yes they'd still be closing down you mean to say?

Exactly.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by ltd

According to the Greens, the Falcon is a gas guzzler and makes Gaia cry. They prefer the more environmentally responsible Prius with its magic batteries made from leprechaun tears and pixie dust.

On another note, cumulatively over several hundred visits I've spent a couple of years in the USA, and the patriotism there is a beautiful thing. Oddly enough before I worked there I was in Montana when 911 happened, and strangers of all origins were in tears, comforting each other as it wasn't an attack just on New York, it was an attack on every single American. My greatest shame as an Aussie was when CBS showed where scenes of people celebrating the attack were taking place in locations like Iran, Palestine and then no joke Campsie. We have no patriotism in this nation and whilst many celebrate the spirit of the Anzac, it goes no further than lip-service on April 25th.

We have patriotism, I an other continental Europeans are proud of our heritage. Not the English.
America has oppressed muslims just about everywhere, of course some would celebrate, not to mention the blind support of Israel.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

it is very, very simple, rest assured

simple concepts often require the most explanation, so your assessment of his post is very flawed

if everyone bought local when they could, then the rest would work itself out

governments would be forced to follow the publics preferences or risk being voted out

retailers and producers would be forced to use local stuff themselves because they'd know they wont sell as much if they don't

companies wouldn't move manufacturing offshore, as they know people would stop buying


your statements about foreign ownership are equally flawed

from an economic perspective foreign ownership of local manufacturing is a wonderful thing

the manufacturing process is where the wealth is created, not the delivery of profit to owners; whilst its nice if profit stays local it is nowhere near as important

this is because economic value, measured in GDP, is created by value added

the tiny amount of profit that flows offshore pales compared to the overall revenue that the industry creates, most of which stays in our economy as value added

all the intermediate and primary goods purchased, all the supporting industries kept in business, supply chains both up and downstream, all the people employed in the actual manufacture and support, onshore management structures, onshore admin, onshore hr

this is all good stuff for the economy

you are in fact actually part of the problem

you are creating disinformation, and making readers dumber, by try to distract from someone's well intentioned attempt to educate people to create better outcomes

you should try reading a book before you gob off about stuff you know nothing about

if you don't understand the concept of GDP, economic value and growth etc, and the impact of different activity on the same, just believe that this SIMPLE statement, could save everything

buy local if you can

Buy local you say - What is local when the glass is from China , engine from Mexico and Transmission from France. Is it local because it is assembled locally?
Manufacturers source their supplies from all over the world and we have to buy local? Some of the steel used to produce Hyundais is made from australian iron ore .
You are also forgetting the actual product needs to competitive - so if people are moving to smaller vehicles and SUV/Dual Cabs you need to follow. Ranger is a good example - make a decent product and it will sell. Pity it is not local.Foreign ownership is a wonderful thing ? Especially when they decide to pull out ?

[drz250]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Buy local you say - What is local when the glass is from China , engine from Mexico and Transmission from France. Is it local because it is assembled locally?
Manufacturers source their supplies from all over the world and we have to buy local? You are also forgetting the actual product needs to competitive - so if people are moving to smaller vehicles and SUV/Dual Cabs you need to follow. Ranger is a good example - make a decent product and it will sell. Pity it is not local.

Skilled engineering jobs manufacturing engines? The people that design the chassis, etc.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by drz250

Skilled engineering jobs manufacturing engines? The people that design the chassis, etc.

Ranger was designed locally for world market - just manufactured elsewhere so those jobs are staying locally.

[drz250]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Ranger was designed locally for world market - just manufactured elsewhere so those jobs are staying locally.

sorry maybe I should have edited the quote.

My comment was about the "Buy local you say - What is local when the glass is from China , engine from Mexico and Transmission from France. Is it local because it is assembled locally?
Manufacturers source their supplies from all over the world and we have to buy local?" part of your comment.

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by ltd

According to the Greens, the Falcon is a gas guzzler and makes Gaia cry. They prefer the more environmentally responsible Prius with its magic batteries made from leprechaun tears and pixie dust.

On another note, cumulatively over several hundred visits I've spent a couple of years in the USA, and the patriotism there is a beautiful thing. Oddly enough before I worked there I was in Montana when 911 happened, and strangers of all origins were in tears, comforting each other as it wasn't an attack just on New York, it was an attack on every single American. My greatest shame as an Aussie was when CBS showed where scenes of people celebrating the attack were taking place in locations like Iran, Palestine and then no joke Campsie. We have no patriotism in this nation and whilst many celebrate the spirit of the Anzac, it goes no further than lip-service on April 25th.

Whilst off point, your spot on. I only just got back from my yearly US trip to see my family and every time I go, I am always in envy of how patriotic Americans are towards their country.

Even at a local ice hockey game, once the national anthem started, every single person in that stadium stopped and it was silent. Even the lady pouring my beer, stopped half way and everyone in the bar stopped serving, no one had a phone in their hand and it was actually beautiful.

We have none of that here and it annoys me.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by blk6t

Whilst off point, your spot on. I only just got back from my yearly US trip to see my family and every time I go, I am always in envy of how patriotic Americans are towards their country.

Even at a local ice hockey game, once the national anthem started, every single person in that stadium stopped and it was silent. Even the lady pouring my beer, stopped half way and everyone in the bar stopped serving, no one had a phone in their hand and it was actually beautiful.

We have none of that here and it annoys me.

Its actually better that Australians aren't that brainwashed.

[Wretched]

How do people know Australians are not patriotic?
Just because much of us don't go out yelling it with flags and the like doesn't mean we aren't patriotic.
I love Australia, it has a lot of flaws but it is home and I support my country but I am not blind. I would like to see Australia advance and not stagnate. Unfortunately the politics of this place mean we're moving backwards.

[Makovic]

Detroit figured we weren't worth it.

Gave us the world's best donk - the barra, still wasn't good enough. Good luck with all the imported crap. We are gonna get exactly what we deserve.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

So where are we now then, with next to no manufacturing industry?

You waiting for the next big innovation in exporting raw materials?

Whats that look like?

You are citing an innovation that only exists because people bought the production in an earlier period (the $40M Maimi investment)

I import stuff when there is nothing suitable local; there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We don't have to go without, or make do with substandard, if no local alternatives exist.

But when there are superior locally made offerings, but are marginally dearer than the alternative foreign production, I would love to see people considering their choice

I bought a brand new locally made car in 2010 (GT). It suited my needs and was only slightly dearer because it was produced in Australia with all the extra costs and challenges associated with the same.

If I was in market now, I am afraid I could not buy the current Falcon. For me, it has fallen too far behind the market to be considered. I would absolutely consider it though, I consider it my duty and an Australian, but after this I would probably have to buy and import. I put that down to the rest of the country letting me down and not buying in the previous period, which would have created demand for further investment.

Some people are poor, so need the cheapest the globe can offer

Some people have specific tastes/requirement, that local can't offer

But when you see a locally made offering that is comparable, give it a look in

Buy local when you can

I can't believe some people are able to push back on this concept.

We are a very very small economy. We are not going to make it if people don't change their attitudes. Strap yourself in to be an impoverished Nation if you aren't prepared to be part of the solution

Ok to put some things into perspective.

Like all things in live, its a BALANCE. Its a balance between the cost of supporting local built versus investing and rewarding innovatinve and better value product.

The problem with too much local protection is local industry gets lazy, the problem with too little protection is local industry gets gutted.

We are somewhere in between. Yes local car production is gone but Ford has 1200 engineers now in Broadmeadows as part of the global engineering team for Ford. Ying and Yang

For an absolute example take my buying decision. I wanted a 4WD that would do a lot of kilometers reliably and comfortably.
I chose a Prado as Ford had nothing to compare and no business case or reason to build a Prado alternative. Ying and yang
5 years later, due to globalisation, Ford has an Everest. When I replace the Prado I now have a choice that I would never have had if we had kept the doors closed on Australia.

[drz250]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Ok to put some things into perspective.

Like all things in live, its a BALANCE. Its a balance between the cost of supporting local built versus investing and rewarding innovatinve and better value product.

The problem with too much local protection is local industry gets lazy, the problem with too little protection is local industry gets gutted.

We are somewhere in between. Yes local car production is gone but Ford has 1200 engineers now in Broadmeadows as part of the global engineering team for Ford. Ying and Yang

For an absolute example take my buying decision. I wanted a 4WD that would do a lot of kilometers reliably and comfortably.
I chose a Prado as Ford had nothing to compare and no business case or reason to build a Prado alternative. Ying and yang
5 years later, due to globalisation, Ford has an Everest. When I replace the Prado I now have a choice that I would never have had if we had kept the doors closed on Australia.

Wow you made some great points, particularly profound were the highlighted sections.

[superyob]

Because Aurions are so fast???