Hyundai ute shapes up

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yeah I certainly did, not for me personally but I organised it for work, the only reason why I went with the Thailand special was the $30K write down as there was tax advantages for the business and the Colorado 4x4 had the best power and torque figures in that price range.

If this was 2016 I'd have gone for an FGX cab chassis as it's a nicer vehicle to live with - one of our staff members has to live with it on a daily basis, I wouldn't wish a 2.7L Workmate Hilux on him.

If there was $40K to spend today I'd have opted for new Hiace V6.

So like everyone else the decision was made economically, not what was "the best".

If the poor performance was such an issue you could have forgone any tax incentive and gone the FGX.

Ye-ol Hiace has rear drums too.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/tradies...6-petrol-77838

At the end of the day they sell like hotcakes and do the job, no need for OEM to push until regs or the marketplace dictates too.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Ah PG2 here's my take.
Were going on about the built tuff ol Falcon ute etc but we also bitched about its QC issues no ? door handles, engine issues, constant front end repairs, rust rust rust but we forgive it due to the inline 6 or 8 and its car style drive.
DC's only 2 issues imo are
1 the motors - yes I'd love a V6 and or better than the RR TT2.0l.
2 the oe showroom suspension is shyte barring RR the exception.

I had a 3.0L tdi hilux then went to the 2.8L and it was a big drop in "performance". But still did the job.

Until you own one I think its easy to bag them, but its hard to argue their practicality.

Id love a 6 seater but that pushes into big $$. Would not ever need anything else from a daily.

And you would be surprised what a Hilux can do around bends, ask the mining community on the last day of your roster and your home bound.

Im surprised VW hasnt made a plusher option pack. This Hyundai may bridge the gap for a daily practical ute for those who dont really go off road.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by PG2

Franco, serious question, what do you think would need to be changed to make them an acceptable consideration?

I agree about some things you're saying, as much as I like dual cabs I'd love something offered with a more advanced car like engine and rear disc brakes without having to buy a Raptor.

I love my Colorado and it suffices in it's current guise, but it would be my ultimate vehicle with a better engine and brakes.

The Chinese Foton Dualcab has Disc brakes on all 4 Corners..!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

Franco, serious question, what do you think would need to be changed to make them an acceptable consideration?

I agree about some things you're saying, as much as I like dual cabs I'd love something offered with a more advanced car like engine and rear disc brakes without having to buy a Raptor.

I love my Colorado and it suffices in it's current guise, but it would be my ultimate vehicle with a better engine and brakes.

Short story:

USDM Ford Ranger

Long Story:

The Thailand specials just need a few changes and I'd embrace them, let's put pen to paper and we'll design the FSV Thailand Special

Franco Special Vehicles Model Designation TS001

Engine(s):

4 cylinder GDI turbo engine with minimum 185KW/420NM utilising twin scroll turbocharger technology

V6 turbo diesel 185KW/650NM optional

Transmission:

6sp or greater torque converter automatic

6sp manual optional

Suspension:

Independent front and rear suspension with coil springs

Solid axle rear suspension with heavy duty leaf springs optional

Steering:

EPAS rack and pinion

Brakes:

Vacuum assisted 4 wheel disc brakes

Drivetrain:

4x2 with mechanical LSD

4x4 with front and rear mechanical LSD optional

Body size:

Standard Thailand Special specifications available in single cab, tub or tray or dual cab tub or tray.

Payload:

600KG for IRS 4x2 and 4x4 IRS variant tub or tray.

1250KG for solid rear axle leaf spring single cab tray variants, similar for 4x4 variants.

Tyres:

SUV specification highway tyres on 18" wheels for 600KG payload variant,

LCV 16" wheel and tyre package for 1250KG variant.

Electrical:

120A alternator on GDI-T engine

160A alternator on V6TD engine

Electric trailer braking integrated into vehicle electrical system

Minor options packages (available on any specification vehicle):

Electrical Package:

Programmable power distribution module with CAN integration and auxiliary switching capabilities

220A Alternator

Auxiliary battery

Trade Pack:

SAE J845/Class 1 amber LED beacons

LED work lamps

Various toolbox configurations via partnership through local specialists

Includes electrical options pack

TS001 Vehicle Option Packages:

Offroad Pack:

AT 4X4 wheel and tyre package (MT tyres no cost option)

Steel bash plates

Foam cell shock absorbers

Heavy duty suspension and steering components

Suspension lift +50mm

Electronic locking differentials for front and rear

Only available in 4x4 IRS and diesel engine.

Wog Pack:

20" wheels and low profile tyre package

Brembo front and rear braking package

Shorter final drive ratio

30mm lower than standard specifications

Short travel shock absorbers

Large front mount intercooler

Redesigned intake

Larger exhaust

Engine recalibration to 235KW/500NM

Transmission recalibration to firm up shifts

Only available as 4x2 IRS and GDI-T engine on single or dual cab variant with tub

Originally Posted by Polyal

So like everyone else the decision was made economically, not what was "the best".

If the poor performance was such an issue you could have forgone any tax incentive and gone the FGX.

Ye-ol Hiace has rear drums too.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/tradies...6-petrol-77838

At the end of the day they sell like hotcakes and do the job, no need for OEM to push until regs or the marketplace dictates too.

Yes - it was a business purchase.

A business purchase where I made sure my warehouse manager had the most powerful new vehicle available in the budget I was allocated.

I could have saved the business a few thousand bucks and put him in a 2.7L Hilux Workmate or a povvo spec 4x2 manual Mitsubishi Triton.

Also - I avoid driving said Colorado where possible, if I do not require to transport pallets, I take our VF Commodore or our Hyundai IX35 company cars with the new Colorado last.

Notice my own personal vehicles currently consist of:

Modified turbo diesel Focus
Modified V8 Holden Caprice

I've also previously owned a GMC Sierra 3500 and an F100 - so yes I will drive utes.

Just not ones that come with tiny wheezy diesel engines that won't move out of their own way.

Which brings me to my next point, what is the sales breakdown of purchases of the top 10 selling vehicles of 2018 by ABN holders and private purchases.

That will determine how popular Thailand specials are when you take away tax incentives.

[naddis01]

All that Franco plus 100mm extra in the width.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Short story:

USDM Ford Ranger

Long Story:

The Thailand specials just need a few changes and I'd embrace them, let's put pen to paper and we'll design the FSV Thailand Special

Franco Special Vehicles Model Designation TS001

Engine(s):

4 cylinder GDI turbo engine with minimum 185KW/420NM utilising twin scroll turbocharger technology

V6 turbo diesel 185KW/650NM optional

Transmission:

6sp or greater torque converter automatic

6sp manual optional

Suspension:

Independent front and rear suspension with coil springs

Solid axle rear suspension with heavy duty leaf springs optional

Steering:

EPAS rack and pinion

Brakes:

Vacuum assisted 4 wheel disc brakes

Drivetrain:

4x2 with mechanical LSD

4x4 with front and rear mechanical LSD optional

Body size:

Standard Thailand Special specifications available in single cab, tub or tray or dual cab tub or tray.

Payload:

600KG for IRS 4x2 and 4x4 IRS variant tub or tray.

1250KG for solid rear axle leaf spring single cab tray variants, similar for 4x4 variants.

Tyres:

SUV specification highway tyres on 18" wheels for 600KG payload variant,

LCV 16" wheel and tyre package for 1250KG variant.

Electrical:

120A alternator on GDI-T engine

160A alternator on V6TD engine

Electric trailer braking integrated into vehicle electrical system

Minor options packages (available on any specification vehicle):

Electrical Package:

Programmable power distribution module with CAN integration and auxiliary switching capabilities

220A Alternator

Auxiliary battery

Trade Pack:

SAE J845/Class 1 amber LED beacons

LED work lamps

Various toolbox configurations via partnership through local specialists

Includes electrical options pack

TS001 Vehicle Option Packages:

Offroad Pack:

AT 4X4 wheel and tyre package (MT tyres no cost option)

Steel bash plates

Foam cell shock absorbers

Heavy duty suspension and steering components

Suspension lift +50mm

Electronic locking differentials for front and rear

Only available in 4x4 IRS and diesel engine.

Wog Pack:

20" wheels and low profile tyre package

Brembo front and rear braking package

Shorter final drive ratio

30mm lower than standard specifications

Short travel shock absorbers

Large front mount intercooler

Redesigned intake

Larger exhaust

Engine recalibration to 235KW/500NM

Transmission recalibration to firm up shifts

Only available as 4x2 IRS and GDI-T engine on single or dual cab variant with tub



Yes - it was a business purchase.

A business purchase where I made sure my warehouse manager had the most powerful new vehicle available in the budget I was allocated.

I could have saved the business a few thousand bucks and put him in a 2.7L Hilux Workmate or a povvo spec 4x2 manual Mitsubishi Triton.

Also - I avoid driving said Colorado where possible, if I do not require to transport pallets, I take our VF Commodore or our Hyundai IX35 company cars with the new Colorado last.

Notice my own personal vehicles currently consist of:

Modified turbo diesel Focus
Modified V8 Holden Caprice

I've also previously owned a GMC Sierra 3500 and an F100 - so yes I will drive utes.

Just not ones that come with tiny wheezy diesel engines that won't move out of their own way.

Which brings me to my next point, what is the sales breakdown of purchases of the top 10 selling vehicles of 2018 by ABN holders or private purchases.

So an Amarok with some options?
This thread is reminding me of whirlpool.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

So an Amarok with some options?
This thread is reminding me of whirlpool.

Yes, I love VW

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Ah PG2 here's my take.
Were going on about the built tuff ol Falcon ute etc but we also bitched about its QC issues no ? door handles, engine issues, constant front end repairs, rust rust rust but we forgive it due to the inline 6 or 8 and its car style drive.
DC's only 2 issues imo are
1 the motors - yes I'd love a V6 and or better than the RR TT2.0l.
2 the oe showroom suspension is shyte barring RR the exception.

I was never a DC supporter or anything 4x4 till I got my 09 Hipox 4x4 SR5.
I got it what owners raved on about re about its prac/family use more so hoilidaying, wish I got one years earlier sticking to my performance mantra for soso long.
I love its prac, put on a far better suspension kit, slotted front rotors with better pads its goes fine for me laden unladen.
Funny about your question re the rear drums.
I actually had a discussion about this with a fellow business Product Manager in the 4x4 Industry I'm involved in.
He quoted why do they need rear disc's ? he said why don't HDuty trucks have them ? He'd prefer the wider and near full circumforance of the brake lining than what the coverage is of a brake pad.
Look at the lining coverage of HDuty trucks.
Well that was his take and I kind of relate to it.

Franco is an ex mechanic, as am I, he also worked with a company that re fitted Vans etc for Ambos from memory that were quite dodgy as he expressed many times and the type of crap he had to work on that I can agree with, ex Burson employee from memory now in a crowd like Pirtek I think.
He's knows his **** I respect that but we all also have our prefs and not.
For eg he goes on about the Rams/Silverados, well for me they are american PO**** as well, their motors are their best point imo.
I've dealt with american products for 30yrs, crap in general, I'd sooner buy Jap/Korean Euro if having choice on made parts and even they have their QC issue now and then but nothing like yanky crap.
No car/LCV are made like they used to be, cost cuts everywhere thats todays world as we all know too well.

Close - I'm an ex auto electrician who specialised in emergency vehicles and yes, I do work in the automotive aftermarket.

Also modern prime movers have disc brakes - including Kenworth, they have Meritor DX195 brake calipers on them if you ever need to buy a set of pads for one

There's disc brake trailers about too.

The big difference between American utes and Thailand specials is the American ones are bigger, faster and they ride better.

Personally as far as commercial vehicles go, I like vans over utes.

By vans I mean new V6 Hiace, Transit Custom and MWB mid roof Mercedes Sprinter

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ye-ol Hiace has rear drums too.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/tradies...6-petrol-77838

At the end of the day they sell like hotcakes and do the job, no need for OEM to push until regs or the marketplace dictates too.

Thats cute - all these vans in my below image have rear discs?



Notice they don't have Toyota badges on the vans though.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Close - I'm an ex auto electrician who specialised in emergency vehicles and yes, I do work in the automotive aftermarket.

Also modern prime movers have disc brakes - including Kenworth, they have Meritor DX195 brake calipers on them if you ever need to buy a set of pads for one

There's disc brake trailers about too.

The big difference between American utes and Thailand specials is the American ones are bigger, faster and they ride better.

Personally as far as commercial vehicles go, I like vans over utes.

By vans I mean new V6 Hiace, Transit Custom and MWB mid roof Mercedes Sprinter



Thats cute - all these vans in my below image have rear discs?

image

Notice they don't have Toyota badges on the vans though.

Notice how they're all parked in the shed broken down, unlike the Toyotas that are still on the road.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Notice how they're all parked in the shed broken down, unlike the Toyotas that are still on the road.

Close, they're (were) all new

In that spec, mid wheel base and mid roof, they're about the same price as a high spec Thailand special but it has things like air suspension seats and captains chairs.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Personally as far as commercial vehicles go, I like vans over utes.

By vans I mean new V6 Hiace, Transit Custom and MWB mid roof Mercedes Sprinter



Thats cute - all these vans in my below image have rear discs?

image

Notice they don't have Toyota badges on the vans though.

You specifically pointed out the Hiace, you complaint was rear drums, Hiace has drums, thats it. You can cherry pick all you like but your concerns and quibbles dont seem to be in step with what the market is buying, but your free to have your opinion obviously.

Manufacturers and the market will work to the regs, so will consumers for their own benefit; so I am not sure what the issue is other than a biased opinion and the performance conditionals of a DC (even if thats not the design intent).

Raptor fills that void but its not going to ever sell in big numbers and thats why it has very little competition.

The way your going on about Asian topics lately I would have sworn you were MethodX.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The Chinese Foton Dualcab has Disc brakes on all 4 Corners..!!

It's also a Chinese Foton

Probably comes with a free serve of coronavirus.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

You specifically pointed out the Hiace, you complaint was rear drums, Hiace has drums, thats it. You can cherry pick all you like but your concerns and quibbles dont seem to be in step with what the market is buying, but your free to have your opinion obviously.

Manufacturers and the market will work to the regs, so will consumers for their own benefit; so I am not sure what the issue is other than a biased opinion and the performance conditionals of a DC (even if thats not the design intent).

Raptor fills that void but its not going to ever sell in big numbers and thats why it has very little competition.

The way your going on about Asian topics lately I would have sworn you were MethodX.

We have a difference of opinion and that's fine.

The Average Joe and corporate fleet manager is happy with mediocrity - as a car enthusiast I am not.

In my 'professional' life I live by continuous improvement principles, how can we make something better? I am continually disappointed by attitudes where 'that's the way we have always done it'.

Hence why I have no love for body on frame utes with drum brakes and 4 cylinder diesel engines, it's lazy and it's the automotive equivalent for 'thats the way we have always done it'

They're the automotive equivalent of a fork and knife.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

lol @ the usual suspects still banging on about how inferior Korean stuff is. But i guess it's still 1998, right?

What!!! When did this happen? It's not 1977???

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We have a difference of opinion and that's fine.

Hence why I have no love for body on frame utes with drum brakes and 4 cylinder diesel engines, it's lazy and it's the automotive equivalent for 'thats the way we have always done it'

They're the automotive equivalent of a fork and knife.

Not far off dinner time here in order to up spec some i could grab the chainsaw outta the shed and have a crack at cutting my steak with that though might be a pain trying to butter my bread with it so a fork and knife it is,call me old fashioned but if it works it works.

[Rastas]

By the time Hyundai's lux division (Genesis) unloads there new GX80 and G80 on our market - people may start to change their tune about Korean cars.
It's like they feel they have to absolutely have the best car at that price point to overcome all the old negative brand press.
Hell - even people like Franco might even think that the GX80 might be as good as a Terri

[XR Martin]

Lols.

Hyundai ute is going to flop.
Monocoque design dual cab. Honda and subaru tried it in the US and was a flop. Why would hyundai bother?

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...he-bare-metal/

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Lols.

Hyundai ute is going to flop.
Monocoque design dual cab. Honda and subaru tried it in the US and was a flop. Why would hyundai bother?

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...he-bare-metal/

Just because two manufacturers tried in the US only and it did not work, doesn’t mean Hyundai’s won’t work here and everywhere else in world.

Lols.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Lols.

Hyundai ute is going to flop.
Monocoque design dual cab. Honda and subaru tried it in the US and was a flop. Why would hyundai bother?

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...he-bare-metal/

They are doing 2 utes. The one shown is the monocoque one which we will most likely not get. We will get the body on frame one.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Just because two manufacturers tried in the US only and it did not work, doesn’t mean Hyundai’s won’t work here and everywhere else in world.

Lols.

It'll cost 'em a few sales I reckon..

How Many Dual cabs do you see with the Tub Removed , & an aftermarket Tray, or service body Fitted..???

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by hayseed

It'll cost 'em a few sales I reckon..

How Many Dual cabs do you see with the Tub Removed , & an aftermarket Tray, or service body Fitted..???

Plenty, but that does not mean there isn’t space for it or that it will be a flop.

[Tassie f100]

Probably not a real high percentage of twin cabs get trays compared to single and space cabs.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We have a difference of opinion and that's fine.

The Average Joe and corporate fleet manager is happy with mediocrity - as a car enthusiast I am not.

In my 'professional' life I live by continuous improvement principles, how can we make something better? I am continually disappointed by attitudes where 'that's the way we have always done it'.

Hence why I have no love for body on frame utes with drum brakes and 4 cylinder diesel engines, it's lazy and it's the automotive equivalent for 'thats the way we have always done it'

They're the automotive equivalent of a fork and knife.

Utility vehicle is what they are...for people to do all sorts of sh*t with and they do it well, sure you cant get 4m lengths of timber in the back or have the torque of a dodge ram

But if you want to buzz here and there picking up bits and pieces with the dog in the back and run on the smell of an oily rag perfect (try that bit in your dodgy ram$$$)
I` dont get your beef about the drum brakes....theyre pretty big drums and i think part of the reason for them is you can have a realy good parkbrake and you need that with their tow rating , try and hold 4 tonne on an incline with the ****y little shoe brakes inside discs?....as for the truck discs , trucks have air spring brakes that clamp the service brakes on for the park brake totally different set up .....the drums on the utes would be the best allround set up and the most cost effective
my 2cworth

[FTE217]

Poodog, agreed.
I didn't bother responding Franco on my previous post for he has his pov and others have opposite.
Nothing is perfect, I don't care my dual cab hilux doesn't steer or brake as good as a Falcon Ute nor care about a Ram etc......I'd like a bit more powa but I can live with what it is.
My ute overall has been so damn practical its not funny, from family hols on beachs/tracks to work needs to picking up most items I need from Bunnings etcetc.....
I have 2 other Falcons to cover my spirited driving needs.

[XR Martin]

Rear drums are there simply due to Thailand tax laws.

Theres a reason why US Rangers and the Amorak have discs, because they aren't made in Thailand.

American pickups all have rear discs and their park brakes are all fine for holding alot more towing weight

[Poetic Justice]

This thread to me kinda highlights why Hyundai might be reluctant at this stage to bring the smaller dual cab here - at least before the proper one arrives.

The amount of people that haven't been able to clearly establish here and also on car websites that there are two very different utes in the pipeline for Hyundai is surprising - and perhaps Hyundai might be a little worried that if they bring the smaller ute to the market first it might damage the brand before the proper ute gets here to build its own reputation first.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Plenty, but that does not mean there isn’t space for it or that it will be a flop.

I never said It'd be a Flop..

I merely pointed out They will (In my Opinion) lose a few sales due to the inability to be able to fit either a Tray or Service Body.
Not everyone Likes Prefers or needs a Tub & Canopy..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Lols.

Hyundai ute is going to flop.
Monocoque design dual cab. Honda and subaru tried it in the US and was a flop. Why would hyundai bother?

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...he-bare-metal/

Didn't Ford try something like this over a decade ago? The Explorer SportTrac or something?

It flopped too.

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Rear drums are there simply due to Thailand tax laws.

Theres a reason why US Rangers and the Amorak have discs, because they aren't made in Thailand.

American pickups all have rear discs and their park brakes are all fine for holding alot more towing weight

Makes no sense as the tax laws would only apply to Thai sold vehicles, not ones manufactured there and exported. The Raptor has discs and is sold and manufactured in Thailand as well.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Poodog, agreed.
I didn't bother responding Franco on my previous post for he has his pov and others have opposite.
Nothing is perfect, I don't care my dual cab hilux doesn't steer or brake as good as a Falcon Ute nor care about a Ram etc......I'd like a bit more powa but I can live with what it is.
My ute overall has been so damn practical its not funny, from family hols on beachs/tracks to work needs to picking up most items I need from Bunnings etcetc.....
I have 2 other Falcons to cover my spirited driving needs.

im the same ive got 2x v8's sitting in the shed and for popping to the shops the utes far more practical and economical ....towing a trailer loaded with builders mix behind the v8's , beating through traffic is expensive , i know before i got the ute thats what i used to do

Theyre not perfect but as said you cant have everything

[naddis01]

Kia rendering based on the Mohave.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...nd-ready-79281