Toyota 86 price $29,990! - Page 31

Fiesta_Man69 · 18-07-2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

http://www.carpoint.com.au/reviews/2...ous-five-31262

Definitely an article to read if you are one of the ones who don't get it.

So, according to the article, it's not a hot hatch, not a sports car and not an a to b vehicle... Hmmm a replacement for the Celica hey? We already know it's much slower around a track than a megane, gti and wrx. If you're prepared to compare it to the Veloster based on price alone then it has to be compared to the ss ute on driveaway price alone ($3K difference - double power and torque). Hmmm.

Bossxr8 · 18-07-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murph-51

Ford need their marketing strategies badly!!! Look entire 2012 allocated stock sold in 3 hrs!!!
http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2012...-success-31350

It was only around 110 cars though, when you take away dealer demos from the 200 they are getting this year, so hardly ground breaking sales numbers considering this is the only chance anyone had to get one this year.

TRD have admitted they are working on a supercharger kit to bring power up to around 185kw, which should wake it up a bit if it gets a good torque bump to go with it.

Oxa384 · 18-07-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murph-51

Ford need their marketing strategies badly!!! Look entire 2012 allocated stock sold in 3 hrs!!!
http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2012...-success-31350

thats insane.clearly the locals are missing something

dimka100 · 18-07-2012, 05:39 PM

Just about every car that gets released in this country with a very limited fixed quantity supply gets bought out before it even hits the show rooms ... same happened with the Focus RS ... that's because there are lots of dealers and individuals ready to cash in on the hype and instantly list these cars on the second hand market at a higher price than original RRP ... this has worked in the past and will continue to work as the Australian buyer loves to get ripped off on just about everything ...

Poetic Justice · 18-07-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

So, according to the article, it's not a hot hatch, not a sports car and not an a to b vehicle... Hmmm a replacement for the Celica hey? We already know it's much slower around a track than a megane, gti and wrx. If you're prepared to compare it to the Veloster based on price alone then it has to be compared to the ss ute on driveaway price alone ($3K difference - double power and torque). Hmmm.

No, you're still extremely wrong. There is far more similarity in the Veloster and the 86 than any two door coupe and a utility/workhorse. No matter what engine. Not one person in this world would lay claim to trying to decide between an SS ute and an 86.

Nikked · 18-07-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

How so? He's got a point.

The new 86 has a glass gearbox, highly strung engine (very limited for extra power), high compression ratio ruling out a turbo kit, or supercharger, and other lightweight (read: weak) parts that aren't able to handle more horsepower.

The kind of modifying Toyota/Subaru have in mind is body kits and fully sick big rims. But they make it faster, right?

TRD are developing exhaust, and other upgrades...TRD coil overs? thats the sort of factory support you want!

Then there is the open ECU...

Give it a few more months and the JDM boys will have bolt on kits..small Hp increases seem to be quite acheiveable.

Weak parts? Even the R35 became notorious for smashing gearboxes...even Ferrari's have had faults so they must be crap cars then hey?

nstg8a · 18-07-2012, 07:23 PM

How is 120/130 kw from a 2.0 highly strung?

My old ae111 running the blacktop 20 valve 4age had that from nearly half a liter less capacity. Those things were highly strung lol.
I'm picking there will reasonable scope for more power with your usual n/a mods.

Nic85 · 18-07-2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

TRD are developing exhaust, and other upgrades...TRD coil overs? thats the sort of factory support you want!

Then there is the open ECU...

Give it a few more months and the JDM boys will have bolt on kits..small Hp increases seem to be quite acheiveable.

Weak parts? Even the R35 became notorious for smashing gearboxes...even Ferrari's have had faults so they must be crap cars then hey?

The actual gearbox, or gear sets, weren't what failed on the original R35 gearboxes, it was a selector fork. It was remedied in the first GTR update. Stock gearbox is now fine for a P800 (800HP) upgrade kit.

147kW from a NA 2L engine is a lot in this day and age, really, with tightening emissions regulations etc. I just don't see a heap of power being unleashed from exhaust, extractors etc. Happy to be proven wrong.

Can someone link me to the confirmation of TRD building a supercharged version? That sounds like it'd be worth buying.

Nikked · 18-07-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

The actual gearbox, or gear sets, weren't what failed on the original R35 gearboxes, it was a selector fork...

Nothing wrong with them gears hey...

Not covered under warranty either...

Fiesta_Man69 · 18-07-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

No, you're still extremely wrong. There is far more similarity in the Veloster and the 86 than any two door coupe and a utility/workhorse. No matter what engine. Not one person in this world would lay claim to trying to decide between an SS ute and an 86.

Right, so a fwd lopsided fashion statement that has zero sporting pretences (106kW) is closer in comparison? Please.

And I'm glad you know what everyone in the world would do when comparing cars.

Nikked · 18-07-2012, 08:17 PM

Veloster isn't a 2 door anyway...

Poetic Justice · 18-07-2012, 08:20 PM

Fashion statement is pretty well the factor that you're actually ignoring. Which for most buyers, is what the 86 and Veloster are all about.

nstg8a · 18-07-2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

Fashion statement is pretty well the factor that you're actually ignoring. Which for most buyers, is what the 86 and Veloster are all about.

Thats it, as much as we are harping on about how good this thing is, reality is most are probably buying it for the looks, the image.

Fiesta_Man69 · 18-07-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

Fashion statement is pretty well the factor that you're actually ignoring. Which for most buyers, is what the 86 and Veloster are all about.

Bingo! The 86 is a fashion statement. Agreed. Toyota knows this - this is why they've been able to short change true driving enthusiasts in the engine department: seriously, produce 200Nm and claim its a 'drift' machine - ha! That's why the tv ad had to be done on sand.... even a 40kW Gemini could get sideways on that....

It's just so disappointing: (and this is what many o/s publications are bemoaning) with just another 50kW and 100Nm this thing could have been a revelation.

It shouldn't be up to the aftermerket to rectify this (and void warranties in the process). There will be some awesome examples produced soon - pity the public can't buy them like that from the showroom. At present, (and borrowing a line from EVO), its a case of hype over substance.

So yes - the 86 is a fashion statement. What a shame, when it could have been so much more. Here's hoping they slot in a turbo/supercharger soon for driving enthusiasts and let the posers buy the base models....

nstg8a · 18-07-2012, 08:46 PM

A hotted up version will ruin its affordability though, that needs to be remembered.

If the hot version comes in at say high 40s then all of a sudden it will be compared to a lot more competition.

I o, it's biggest advantage is its price. There is nothing comparable on the market.

Brazen · 18-07-2012, 08:58 PM

Reading about the development, the whole point about the 86 was that weight target - as soon as the power increases, every other component has to become bigger to handle it and therefore more heavier. The transmission would need to be stronger and so becomes heavier, the suspension heavier, bigger diff, bigger driveshaft, thicker frame...etc.

Sure they could have made it more powerful, but it would of ended up as heavy as a Monaro. The car's power is in perfect balance with the original goal of the car.

Nikked · 18-07-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The car's power is in perfect balance with the original goal of the car.

...and 99% of reveiws agree.

nstg8a · 18-07-2012, 09:16 PM

It's like the original mx5, lightweight, tuned to handle, but always felt a bit underpowered. Fast forward a few years it's got more power but more weight and whilest still a good thing most would agree the original is the more 'pure'

TheSneakiness · 18-07-2012, 09:21 PM

Someone posted a pic of the 86 on my FB page that had a 2JZ stuffed into it.

Would that work?

I've seen a couple on road (mainly New Farm, the "trendy" part of Brisbane) and they do grab your attention.

nstg8a · 18-07-2012, 09:29 PM

I'd be surprised if the engine bays long enough for a 2j. V8 conversion would be sweet lol. Still seemed to handle too

Nikked · 18-07-2012, 09:43 PM

2JZ

2UR-GSE

Cosworth EJ26

zilo · 19-07-2012, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

supercharging is more likely imo. more compact, easier to plumb in a tight spot.

.

12.5 compression stops all forced induction engine options with this package me thinks.

Even with 98RON and serious intercooling it would detonate to engine-heaven after a small amount of boost.

Nikked · 19-07-2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

12.5 compression stops all forced induction engine options with this package me thinks.

Even with 98RON and serious intercooling it would detonate to engine-heaven after a small amount of boost.

HKS have already supercharged it with great success...

Fiesta_Man69 · 19-07-2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

2JZ

image

2UR-GSE
image

Cosworth EJ26
image

So... not one of these engines is the one that your showroom buyer receives with the car (turboed or otherwise): guessing the point of these pics is you need to replace the insipid standard donk with proven muscle to get a real performance car and make the most of the chasis?

Poetic Justice · 19-07-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Bingo! The 86 is a fashion statement. Agreed. Toyota knows this - this is why they've been able to short change true driving enthusiasts in the engine department: seriously, produce 200Nm and claim its a 'drift' machine - ha! That's why the tv ad had to be done on sand.... even a 40kW Gemini could get sideways on that....

It's just so disappointing: (and this is what many o/s publications are bemoaning) with just another 50kW and 100Nm this thing could have been a revelation.

It shouldn't be up to the aftermerket to rectify this (and void warranties in the process). There will be some awesome examples produced soon - pity the public can't buy them like that from the showroom. At present, (and borrowing a line from EVO), its a case of hype over substance.

So yes - the 86 is a fashion statement. What a shame, when it could have been so much more. Here's hoping they slot in a turbo/supercharger soon for driving enthusiasts and let the posers buy the base models....

You are still missing the point. Toyota developed it in mind of people who WANT to modify it, whether the masses do is not up to them, however the main objective was to have a car that could be toyed with such as the modifiable ECU.

If they wanted a powerhouse, see the Lexus LFA. They know how to do it.

Do you think this is where the buck stops? You don't think there isn't the potential to then release a forced induction vehicle, or revive the Supra in a slightly bigger version of the 86 such as has been hinted?

Furthermore, with regards to drift capabilities, jump on youtube and you'll find that it's more than capable and not just needing to be on sand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK2EwymH9oY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CStAf5jAk2A

Wretched · 19-07-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

So... not one of these engines is the one that your showroom buyer receives with the car (turboed or otherwise): guessing the point of these pics is you need to replace the insipid standard donk with proven muscle to get a real performance car and make the most of the chasis?

You simply don't get it do you?
The car is a modification platform. it is there for all types of people who want a cheap RWD car that can be modified at all levels.
Don't want to go the whole hog of replacing the engine? That's fine, the ECU will allow tweaks to increase power.

Want to go the whole hog then go for it, the platform allows a complete engine swap.

We only get two models here, the GT and GTS, in Japan they have a very basic model that is very cheap for people who will completely change the car, engine, gearbox, etc.

Vesper Martini · 19-07-2012, 01:08 PM

Fantastic article, its funny when I had a trueno 20 years ago I thought it was plenty fast enough, a few people didnt get it then, untill they had a ride in it, white knuckles on the armrest stuff. bring back the pop up lights!!

Nic85 · 19-07-2012, 01:13 PM

Again, who buys a brand new car to modify it immediately, rendering your new car warranty void? You'd be a donut.

If you modified extractors, exhaust and CAI with a tune, in an already highly strung ATMO 2L engine, you might gain what? 15HP?

If you want a modification platform that's lightweight and RWD, there's a plethora of cars that fit the bill. I've said this already. It's such a stupid argument to say this car is a modification platform.

Just on the HKS supercharger too - there doesn't appear to be any exact information on it, and it looks as though the engine will need to be forged.

Fiesta_Man69 · 19-07-2012, 01:19 PM

So it's a platform that's meant to be modified, hey?

Okay.

So why would anyone buy a brand new car and instantly void the warranty? That's insane. You may as well save yourself $15K and buy a stock S15.

Saying it's up to the customer to modify the engine to increase power is a cop out, voids warranty and makes insurance difficult and expensive. And modifying the ecu in a highly strung atmo won't see a huge gain anyways....

flappist · 19-07-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

So it's a platform that's meant to be modified, hey?

Okay.

So why would anyone buy a brand new car and instantly void the warranty? That's insane. You may as well save yourself $15K and buy a stock S15.

Saying it's up to the customer to modify the engine to increase power is a cop out, voids warranty and makes insurance difficult and expensive. And modifying the ecu in a highly strung atmo won't see a huge gain anyways....

Go to this web site www.fordforums.com.au

It is full of hundreds if not thousands of people who have bought NEW cars and modified them potentially voiding warranty.

Your posts are becoming quite argumentative. That path only leads to pain, I suggest you get off it immediately.

Dong ma?