Ford throws Falcon a RWD lifeline

[jpd80]

If a slightly smaller more fuel efficient Falcon was developed,
it could then serve as an alternative to Mondeo/Fusion in
key markets in our region as well as unique Lincoln products.

A next generation Taurus could then take over the mantle of
full sized car replacing Falcon/Fairlane and relieving FoA of
the financial pressure to develop such vehicles and freeing
FoA to reposition Falcon as global player in tandem with Mustang.

I could live with that idea.

Broadmeadows could then be RHD production centre
for Falcon/Ute, Mustang/Capri, Taurus/Explorer (or Territory)

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Whilst that all sounds very pithy, and an apparently great “put-down,” unfortunately it’s absolute rubbish.
We knew almost a decade ahead of time that the EA26 was going to be developed in Australia, and the same for the AU (code name escapes me for the moment.) Similarly the Barra and Orion were telegraphed well ahead of time.


These articles say absolutely NOTHING new, and give absolutely ZERO guarantees about the future of Falcon as an Australian Car, yet suddenly everyone is drunk on the euphoria of false hope.
This is simply a PR exercise around managing expectations. As I said, what this confirms 100% is that the next “all new” Falcon will be based on some 2nd rate Yank platform, but of course they’re going to try and package that in the sweetest language possible. It’s bit like the VL Commodore. GM didn’t come out and say that they’d given up on the Aussie 6, and bought a rubbish Datsun engine. No, they trumpeted their new OHC engine. Whatever shape the next all-new Falcon takes, you can rest assured that it will be sold to us as the latest and greatest, and many will choose to believe it. Just look at the VN; a hasty botch of an inflated Opel body, on a bastardised VK platform, with an archaic Buick engine. Relatively speaking the worst car Holden ever made, yet GMH diehards flocked to it like the 2nd Coming.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE American cars, the bigger the better. They were serving up luxury appointments when we were still making do with 3 on the tree and vinyl. On balance, they are probably still the best car makers in the world, and their best engines are awesome. (I just wish that we’d start getting their engines when they were still new, instead of when they’re looking to get of old junk!)
But let’s face it, the American concept of “handling” is that it should be comfortable sitting in a traffic jam. Don’t believe me, just read any review of Any American car; they all read the same: “Good Looks, Great Value for Money, Comfortable & Well-Appointed, Load of Power, and CRAP Steering and Cornering. The Mustang has gotten away with it’s archaic platform, simply because it COULD. Why fix it if nobody complains.

Whilst I will lament the passing of the I6, switching to a global all-alloy quad-cam V6 could yield significant benefits, provided we get the latest versions and not the cast offs.

As I indicated, I just hope that Ford Australia get significant input into the development of this platform, Retuning the platform to what we expect in the way of handling, should be relatively simple with enough Australian input. I’d be quite happy with an AWD Falcon, provided it retains a big torquey engine. However FWD would be the pits.

Igot to love how you start with (And I quote) "These articles say absolutely NOTHING new, and give absolutely ZERO guarantees about the future of Falcon as an Australian Car", yet go on to say (and I quote) "what this confirms 100% is that the next “all new” Falcon will be based on some 2nd rate Yank platform"..

Those 2 comments alone contradict each other, so you can't have it both ways I'm afraid!!

[billy302]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If a slightly smaller more fuel efficient Falcon was developed,
it could then serve as an alternative to Mondeo/Fusion in
key markets in our region as well as unique Lincoln products.

A next generation Taurus could then take over the mantle of
full sized car replacing Falcon/Fairlane and relieving FoA of
the financial pressure to develop such vehicles and freeing
FoA to reposition Falcon as global player in tandem with Mustang.

I could live with that idea.

Broadmeadows could then be RHD production centre
for Falcon/Ute, Mustang/Capri, Taurus/Explorer (or Territory)

The Next generation Taurus is I believe a larger car than Falcon is now.
As for economy 8/litres/100Km in the country is great for a 4.0 litre engine.
it's not bad in the City either.
Rear Wheel Drive makes sense in Australia.

[XRFutura]

just saw this article on carpoint, sorry if this is repost. Looks very promising.
Ford Boss: Falcon safe beyond 2015

[Gobes32]

I am a glass half full kind of guy so here is my take on things......

E8 platform being sent o'seas suggests that the control blade IRS is going in the Mustang, hell, if FPV can get 4.6 secs with that **** end then why not plant it in the Mustang?

An American being sent over to lend a hand suggests he is developing a LHD model of Falcon's next chassis.........?

Australia's design team is regarded as world class due to exciting platforms designed on limited budgets. Also, no where else in the world can factories produce such limited numbers of vehicles profitably like we can. ( except for Ferrari, Porsche etc. )

It makes sense for Oz to design and build a large RWD vehicle and produce the RHD variants here, and share that design with an american factory producing the LHD variants.

[Polyal]

As long as they sort the bloody diff bush issue out then I am happy for the IRS to go over, that or redesign on please!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by XRFutura

just saw this article on carpoint, sorry if this is repost. Looks very promising.
Ford Boss: Falcon safe beyond 2015

No, its not a repost, thanks for sharing it.

Some very interesting comments there. Particularly:

"We have no plans to make any change [to our local manufacturing operations]. We have a facility here that is certainly capable of manufacturing cars and we've invested hundreds of millions of dollars over the years to do so. Why would we invest all this money if it wasn't for the future?

"When the world was in [financial] meltdown and everyone was ... closing hatches because it wasn't a sensible thing to do to spend money, we came out boldly as a company and announced a significant investment to continue to invest in local manufacturing and local products such as Falcon, ute and Territory."

"We are currently in the process of evaluating what a new Falcon will be. We need to make a decision by late 2011, early 2012.

"Working out the size, the engine, the package etc, all that is taking place right now... We are very fortunate. When we launched the current generation FG Falcon it actually bought us time. We've actually got time on our side which allows us to then choose which technologies, where the styling is heading, where the car is heading and where customer preferences are heading," Burela elaborated.

Ford insists the Broadmeadows and Geelong factories are viable, and pointed to the company's Australian operations posting a profit last financial year as proof of this.

"The large car segment over the last 15 to 20 years has declined, there is no question about that. But ... as the industry has grown, the number of cars manufactured in Australia has remained [about the same].

"People in Australia are not averse to driving large cars, what they're absolutely focused on [is] that you deliver them value for money, cost of ownership, fuel economy. And we're working on that," Burela said

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Whilst that all sounds very pithy, and an apparently great “put-down,” unfortunately it’s absolute rubbish.
We knew almost a decade ahead of time that the EA26 was going to be developed in Australia, and the same for the AU (code name escapes me for the moment.) Similarly the Barra and Orion were telegraphed well ahead of time.

Just because its designed it doesn't mean that the car is going to continue. Orion(FG) was not approved for production till late 06.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XRFutura

just saw this article on carpoint, sorry if this is repost. Looks very promising.
Ford Boss: Falcon safe beyond 2015

The Falcon's only as safe as the CEO.

[Ohio XB]

Whilst I would LOVE to own a Mustang, their iconic status has allowed them to lag way behind in areas such as handling. Sure, there is a new one due out, and it will supposedly finally get IRS (20 years too late) but I can confidently predict that it will remain decades behind the times and barely up to the standard of the current generation Falcon.

Though I admire the flag waving your comment is not entirely, if not vaguely, accurate. I believe the 2005 Mustang, with it's dinosaur solid rear axle, was questioned about the wisdom of keeping it with this old technology. When a Ford Exectutive was asked why Ford hampered the new Mustang with this detriment the Exec stated "The Mustang doesn't seem to be having any handling problems in the last 5 out of 6 (road) races it won."

2011 Mustang GT with 5.0L engine 0 - 60 MPH in 4.8 seconds. Skid Pad lateral G's - 0.91g .


Bobthabilda: I have no idea how you extrapolated those conclusions.


FOA design and engineering has received all kinds of praise and accolades from Ford's top brass in Dearborn. They have also been listed to be involved in a number of projects rather then being thrown a single token project. It seems FOA D&E are a very big part of One Ford.



Steve

[jpd80]

E8 Falcon will be with us for at least another 5-6 years....

[jpd80]

Stronger signals that Ford have resolved to continue RWD Falcon.

"We are currently in the process of evaluating what a new Falcon will be. We need to make a decision by late 2011, early 2012.

"Working out the size, the engine, the package etc, all that is taking place right now... We are very fortunate. When we launched the current generation FG Falcon it actually bought us time. We've actually got time on our side which allows us to then choose which technologies, where the styling is heading, where the car is heading and where customer preferences are heading," Burela elaborated.

"We don't have to have a replacement vehicle in place until we get to around the 2016 timeframe."

[vztrt]

News got to the US.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/05/r...h-mustang-not/

Report: RWD Ford Falcon could merge platforms with Mustang, not Taurus

by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on Oct 5th 2010 at 10:01AM

A big part of Ford's recent successes can be attributed to the "One Ford" mantra CEO Allan Mulally instituted early on. But while the program may be a recipe for success, speculation stemming from Mulally's comments at the 2010 Detroit Auto Show left some wondering if the next Ford Falcon would one day share a front-wheel drive platform with the Taurus.

RWD-loving Australians Down Under shuttered at the thought of a front-drive Falcon, but Drive reports that comments by Mulally at the Paris Motor Show may calm those fears. The Ford CEO acknowledged that rear drive vehicles still have a rock-solid business case, adding that the automaker would continue to make vehicles that customers want, "starting with you (Australians)."

Mulally didn't specifically state that the Mustang and Falcon would one day share a platform, but several hints indicate the move is very possible. Mulally insisted that rear-wheel drive platforms will be global in the future, adding "we love our rear-wheel drive platforms and we love Mustang, and they're global platforms."

And this isn't the first we've heard about the Falcon and Mustang sharing a rear drive platform. Way back in January Motor Trend cited inside sources at Ford who said the next Mustang would house an independent suspension under it's boot. Those same sources claimed that the Falcon and an unnamed RWD Lincoln would share that platform.

[Source: Drive]

[music189]

Check out the latest goauto enews

http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews.nsf/edition/CDE155D23E7E22BACA2577B3001CB0F0/$file/GoAutoNews_552.pdf

looks like we have liftoff with the next Falcon

[Ohio XB]

Going to read all that when I get the chance. Good link.

How does everyone feel if a Falcon was to be built in the US and maybe sold as a Lincoln to compete in the luxury sports sedan segment? And perhaps a Ford branded derivative with a different looking body?


Steve

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Going to read all that when I get the chance. Good link.

How does everyone feel if a Falcon was to be built in the US and maybe sold as a Lincoln to compete in the luxury sports sedan segment? And perhaps a Ford branded derivative with a different looking body?


Steve

Not a problem as long as it is still manufactured here in Australia too. It would be like the VE Commodore and the Camaro sharing the platform but built in Australia and Canada respectively.

Using the RWD expertise of FoA to get a leg-up with the next Mustang and upmarket Lincolns is smart business. The budget could be increased, the volume increased dramatically bringing great cost savings and either a lower sticker or more features/tech for the same price.

I particularly like the idea of reducing the weight of the Mustang and Falcon which is the aim for future cars under One Ford.

They could easily enough have the Falcon in Australia and US, market it as the Scorpion if need be in Europe too with the EB2.0 motor and DSG and a diesel.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Going to read all that when I get the chance. Good link.

How does everyone feel if a Falcon was to be built in the US and maybe sold as a Lincoln to compete in the luxury sports sedan segment? And perhaps a Ford branded derivative with a different looking body?


Steve

Australia building units for the US would be silly, you NA for their market and use Australia for the market down here.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

How does everyone feel if a Falcon was to be built in the US and maybe sold as a Lincoln to compete in the luxury sports sedan segment? And perhaps a Ford branded derivative with a different looking body?


Steve

You are forgetting the sentiment that occurs when a product is manufactured in your own backyard. A Falcon built in the US and brought over here is not the same thing.........

[Ohio XB]

In my theory I don't mean for the Falcon built in the US to be shipped to Australia. I only mean if LHD Falcons were built in the US for the NA market. Though of course it would be preferred by Australians that the Falcon for ANY markey be built in Australia, is there any animosity if it were to be built here in the US, or is it accepted as the way things have to be?

Me and a coworker were kicking some ideas around this week while working on the line and we wanted to get your views on the idea.


Steve

[JPFS1]

Would have no issue at all if US wanted to build LHD falcons for N.A market providing Dearborn underwrite Ford Aus Manufacturing Ops.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

In my theory I don't mean for the Falcon built in the US to be shipped to Australia. I only mean if LHD Falcons were built in the US for the NA market. Though of course it would be preferred by Australians that the Falcon for ANY markey be built in Australia, is there any animosity if it were to be built here in the US, or is it accepted as the way things have to be?

Me and a coworker were kicking some ideas around this week while working on the line and we wanted to get your views on the idea.


Steve

My bad, I think that would be a fantastic idea, fingers crossed............

[outback_ute]

Makes sense of course for LHD versions to be built there & RHD here - unless they wanted to do a "few" LHD utes for example, or a "few" RHD Lincolns

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

In my theory I don't mean for the Falcon built in the US to be shipped to Australia. I only mean if LHD Falcons were built in the US for the NA market. Though of course it would be preferred by Australians that the Falcon for ANY markey be built in Australia, is there any animosity if it were to be built here in the US, or is it accepted as the way things have to be?

Me and a coworker were kicking some ideas around this week while working on the line and we wanted to get your views on the idea.


Steve

If it's built there it's easier to sell to those in the U.S.
Plus, we can't keep up here to supply our own market let alone anyone else's.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Would have no issue at all if US wanted to build LHD falcons for N.A market providing Dearborn underwrite Ford Aus Manufacturing Ops.

Would the Top Hat have to be changed as well?

Flat Rock builds LHD Mustang and LHD E8 while Broadmeadows builds Falcon and RHD Mustang?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Plus, we can't keep up here to supply our own market let alone anyone else's.

I'm sure they could increase the line rate back up if they were guranteed (and not a GM gurantee mind you) 100K+ units a year.

[Crazy Dazz]

Unfortunately some people seem to be confused between the concepts of the Falcon continuing as a (uniquely) Australian car, and that of a car badged as a Falcon being assembled in Australia.

Nobody doubts that Ford will continue to sell a car badged as the Falcon. Whilst the volume apparently nolonger warrants it’s own development, it can probably justify ongoing local assembly.
In some ways, I would like to see imported RWD Falcons based on an updated Mustang platform (similar to the DEW98) perhaps even with a Coupe version.
However local assembly IMHO points towards the D3 Platform, shared between the Falcon/Taurus, and the Territory/Explorer.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Though I admire the flag waving your comment is not entirely, if not vaguely, accurate. I believe the 2005 Mustang, with it's dinosaur solid rear axle, was questioned about the wisdom of keeping it with this old technology. When a Ford Exectutive was asked why Ford hampered the new Mustang with this detriment the Exec stated "The Mustang doesn't seem to be having any handling problems in the last 5 out of 6 (road) races it won."

Funnily enough, that’s EXACTLY what they used to say about the Falcon, twenty years ago.

It’s hardly Flag-waving on my part, I LOVE BIG American cars, but not even Americans claim that their cars are setup for handling or roadholding.
Oh, and don’t be fooled that the crap setup foisted on the Mustang was anything other than a cost saving measure. The current Mustang was to have been developed on the Global DEW platform (along with Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc.) One derivative, the DEW98, was used for a Lincoln model and it incorporated double-wishbone Independent suspension all-round. However to keep Mustang costs down, they opted for struts and a live axle, and dubbed it the D2C.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The current Mustang was to have been developed on the Global DEW platform (along with Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc.) One derivative, the DEW98, was used for a Lincoln model and it incorporated double-wishbone Independent suspension all-round. However to keep Mustang costs down, they opted for struts and a live axle, and dubbed it the D2C.

I correspond with an engineer who was on S197 and what you're saying is not true.
The only part of dew that was used was a small part of the floor pan, the
shock towers on the DEW were too close to allow Ford DOHC V8s to be used.
DEW was a nightmarishly expensive platform, even Lincoln struggled to justify the LS and
the two seater Thunderbird was another low production run for the exclusive platform.


When the S197 was begun engineers looked at BA Falcon platform, DEW and Fresh design. To cut a long story short, they ultimately went with their own design because DEW was completely unworkable and expensive, Falcon held hope but was too different around the rear wheel well area of the chassis to be developed into a Mustang Coupe. In the end it was just easier to start with a clean sheet design.

You are right about Phil marten's penny pinching, the original S197 design had CB IRS with unique pick up points that allowed a rear seat between the wheels coupe. It was torn up to save a pittance, one of the lead engineers was so upset that he left the project.

One interesting foot note was that at the time the IRS was being scrapped FoA was working with the Mustang engineers on changing their design to accommodate the Mustang and provide a common affordable IRS. Unfortunately, Territory was at design lock in and a common IRS escaped them...

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Funnily enough, that’s EXACTLY what they used to say about the Falcon, twenty years ago.

It’s hardly Flag-waving on my part, I LOVE BIG American cars, but not even Americans claim that their cars are setup for handling or roadholding.
Oh, and don’t be fooled that the crap setup foisted on the Mustang was anything other than a cost saving measure. The current Mustang was to have been developed on the Global DEW platform (along with Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc.) One derivative, the DEW98, was used for a Lincoln model and it incorporated double-wishbone Independent suspension all-round. However to keep Mustang costs down, they opted for struts and a live axle, and dubbed it the D2C.

No, no Americans believe the solid axle was for any other reason than a cost saving measure. That is believed by everyone. However, if you are going to have a solid rear axle, Ford has it figured out to the extreme limits of it's capability.

I am sure most Americans that are considering a next gen Mustang are praying for IRS.


Steve

[outback_ute]

Agree Steve, except for the highly vocal drag racing focused minority. Defending the live axle using race track results doesn't wash either - race tracks are smooth so the unsprung weight issue doesn't raise its head.