Ford to shed 240 local jobs, cut production as demand slumps

[Brazen]

they stopped making these in 1999, based on the XD from 1979!!!!! And this was in the days when the factory was at full capacity and most XH utes were cheap povo pack specials.



It would have been great to see the BFIII wagon live on a few more years...

PS dont you love the old days when Aussie utes had ground clearance and looked like they could actually work.

[ED Classic]

Territory has been ok and Utes stable as ever but lets face facts, forgetting us enthusiasts who are on here, half the companies out there give big bonnuses to managers to cut company costs, enter corrolas, korean cars etc and these days people have money or they dont and very little in between, the ones who dont might buy a 2nd hand falcon but very rarely a new one, and the people with money (as i said unless an enthusiast like us) wont be seen dead in a Falcon and will happily pay 70-120k + for a 4wd, German etc etc.......Soooo sad but true, just have alook at how many Euro's etc on the road today compared to 15 years ago,

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

It actually make you wonder how long Ford will be manufacturing cars in this country.

Where are all those people with their rose coloured glasses? You know, the ones that said that even though Holden were selling heaps of Commodores, they were losing on each car? B**lsh**t. They've made a profit. What can we hang our hat on now? Falcon is in trouble. We all know it. It has Mitsubishi written all over it.

Maybe, but keep in mind GMH only seem to make a profit every 5 years or so.

What I was getting at though, was there is an obvious place where Ford could slash millions of dollars quickly. And that would be even more of a survival mode than offering redundancies.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Brazen

they stopped making these in 1999, based on the XD from 1979!!!!! And this was in the days when the factory was at full capacity and most XH utes were cheap povo pack specials.



It would have been great to see the BFIII wagon live on a few more years...

PS dont you love the old days when Aussie utes had ground clearance and looked like they could actually work.

Correct correct correct..

BFIIII wagon was needed. I would say they will possibly cover 200 of those sales a month atleast with Mondeo wagon, which is an easier product for Ford Aus to deal with, all they need to do is transport it from the wharf to dealer..

I give Broadmeadows 3 - 4 years... then it will be all over red rover. They have to keep gonig for now with the cash they have injected into products like Territory SZ and Lpi Falcon. The only way to trade out of this storm is to get moving on Lpi (June) and FG2... FG is now 3 years old this month, how time flys, but its definately starting to show tiredness, new wheels and colours are needed like yesturday!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Forda

Maybe, but keep in mind GMH only seem to make a profit every 5 years or so.

What I was getting at though, was there is an obvious place where Ford could slash millions of dollars quickly. And that would be even more of a survival mode than offering redundancies.

GMH Australia will last longer then Ford Australia.. While they haven't been on the profitable side for a while alot of their infrastructure is starting to work for them.. The V6 export program, Cruze and some extra exports for VE will only help them along.. Their foot print is much stronger then that of Fords at the present time. They are pretty much selling what they bulid each month, VEII is going great guns for them considering how they currently have their pricing structured... The cars are alot more expensive then they were back in 2007 / 2008 when they had paddock fulls of VE1's, the profits seem to be good.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well if you look at what has been given the chop over the past few years you can see why their market share has fallen...

Fairlane - this one I agree with actually, not much money in that for the effort you need to go into to make it look different from the Falcon. Id love to know how the Statesman/Caprice programs fared with return on investment...BUT..with the money saved from axing it more tech could have gone into the G series!

Wagon - even with updated mechanical it would have still turned over a few sales for little extra cost in integrating new drive trains

RTV - what happened there, why couldn't they carry over the chassis with FG drivetrains and body?

XR8 - dont even get me started on that, again a well engineered and balanced car but didn't deliver what the segment wanted. Its ok though, by the time they make a decision either way the current falcon will have 12 months left to run and they will wonder why they didn't make their money back..you could back a G8E/V8 option on other variants to spread costs.

Then you come to delayed programs....

LPI - well its damn close but should have been here start of the year if not last...haven't had LPG for a while when it took up such a large % of sales

Diesel - tell me again why this engine is not in the falcon sedan and ute? And why mules where running around in 2005 and it took until 2011 to get it in? Drivetrain programs when you dont even develop the engine should not take 6 years...and thats doesn't even include the time in which it was thought of before PD got their hands on it.

I4T - next year now? I actually think its a huge risk and LPG/Diesel offers better alternatives, but still, its going to be 12 months to late.

Ford have great cars, great tech and great people...but the decision making process is shyte to say the least.

IMO GRWD cant come soon enough before the Falcon name is completely tarnished.

Anyone who believes its purely the markets fault needs to take off the blue glasses. I love Ford, I really, do, but they make it very hard on themselves.

LPI and Diesel should do well, but FoA really needs to get their product forecasts in order, they only have another 4-5 years of this falcon left and its all going to be to late.

/****ed off rant

Holden certainly have their flaws, but they read the market and supply what the consumers want much better. People carry on that the sportwagon just steals from the sedan, well maybe a little, but maybe some sales could have easily gone to small/meduim hatch backs aswell? Thats just one example.

I agree with this. Ford are a victim of their procrastination.

The LILPG and Ecoboost Falcon are far too late. The diesel option in the Territory is 4 to 5 years too late. No diesel option in the Falcon? Are Ford kidding? They underestimated the market, especially the ute market. Imaging a TD Falcon ute....I'd buy one just for the sake of having one, let alone the benefits of fuel economy etc. It would make perfect sence.

Ford believes the crap spun by Holden marketing with their SIDIDI 3.0 and 3.6l engine line up. Instead Ford should have looked at what the European manufacturers are doing. There's a diesel engine option just about every model line up......

I suspect the Falcon is gone come 2015-2016.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

GMH Australia will last longer then Ford Australia.. While they haven't been on the profitable side for a while alot of their infrastructure is starting to work for them.. The V6 export program, Cruze and some extra exports for VE will only help them along.. Their foot print is much stronger then that of Fords at the present time. They are pretty much selling what they bulid each month, VEII is going great guns for them considering how they currently have their pricing structured... The cars are alot more expensive then they were back in 2007 / 2008 when they had paddock fulls of VE1's.

There is one key difference however. Ford's US parent company is fully solvent and has cash reserves available. GM US isn't solvent, and one particularly bad year could easily have Holden in the same position as Saab was.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

they stopped making these in 1999, based on the XD from 1979!!!!! And this was in the days when the factory was at full capacity and most XH utes were cheap povo pack specials.



It would have been great to see the BFIII wagon live on a few more years...

PS dont you love the old days when Aussie utes had ground clearance and looked like they could actually work.

Those two vehicles are 'Outback' packs with higher than standard ground clearance and the current crop of Falcon utes are just as capable.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Those two vehicles are 'Outback' packs with higher than standard ground clearance and the current crop of Falcon utes are just as capable.

These are the Tradesman pack limited editions with the Outback wheel and tyre setup but with the standard suspension. I bought a Hot Chilli Red bench-seat brand new Tradesman pack back in late 1998, only had it for a year or so ,sad story (sob).

[Polyal]

Thats an interesting point actually....I wonder how much of a loss per annum ford US could cope with and just let manufacturing here run its course until they either really sort it out or close it.

The way that Ford US has been running lately I dont think any manufcturing losses made by FoA get much air time...its little money for them. Even if FoA coudl run manufacturing at small losses they might even keep it.

Sounds silly, why would you continue if your not making money...but if your balance sheet is much better in other areas then you can deal with it and persist over time.

Naturally there is a cut off point somewhere though.

Ford have more to lose IMO pulling manufacturing than say losing $100M per year on FoA manufacturing. I reckon there would be a rather large public backlash if the manufacturing pin is pulled that would effect the entire range.

Although Mitsu seem to be ok now, but I dont think (recall) them being as entrenched into the "aussie automotive way of life" like FoA.

[Ford17]

Listening to Will Hagon ATM; he seems to think the diesel Teritory could make up a fair bit of the difference.

He also mentioned the worse than dismal hybrid sales by Toyota - remember the state & Federal govts kicked in $70m for the hybrid Camry alone!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats an interesting point actually....I wonder how much of a loss per annum ford US could cope with and just let manufacturing here run its course until they either really sort it out or close it.

The way that Ford US has been running lately I dont think any manufcturing losses made by FoA get much air time...its little money for them. Even if FoA coudl run manufacturing at small losses they might even keep it.

Sounds silly, why would you continue if your not making money...but if your balance sheet is much better in other areas then you can deal with it and persist over time.

Naturally there is a cut off point somewhere though.

Ford have more to lose IMO pulling manufacturing than say losing $100M per year on FoA manufacturing. I reckon there would be a rather large public backlash if the manufacturing pin is pulled that would effect the entire range.

Although Mitsu seem to be ok now, but I dont think (recall) them being as entrenched into the "aussie automotive way of life" like FoA.

I dont like this comparison with Mitsubishi, it was a different situation. Their sales sucked and there was no light at the end of the tunnel

Ford is different, there is the diesel Territory, new LPG, new Ecoboost, New FGII, there is light!!!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

These are the Tradesman pack limited editions with the Outback wheel and tyre setup but with the standard suspension. I bought a Hot Chilli Red bench-seat brand new Tradesman pack back in late 1998, only had it for a year or so ,sad story (sob).

Let me guess....you smashed it didn't you.

Personally I think they should do a re-run of the Tradesman ute pack.

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats an interesting point actually....I wonder how much of a loss per annum ford US could cope with and just let manufacturing here run its course until they either really sort it out or close it.

The way that Ford US has been running lately I dont think any manufcturing losses made by FoA get much air time...its little money for them. Even if FoA coudl run manufacturing at small losses they might even keep it.

Sounds silly, why would you continue if your not making money...but if your balance sheet is much better in other areas then you can deal with it and persist over time.

Naturally there is a cut off point somewhere though.

Ford have more to lose IMO pulling manufacturing than say losing $100M per year on FoA manufacturing. I reckon there would be a rather large public backlash if the manufacturing pin is pulled that would effect the entire range.

Although Mitsu seem to be ok now, but I dont think (recall) them being as entrenched into the "aussie automotive way of life" like FoA.

It's been said before, but as long as FoA turn a profit, they more or less fly under the radar. But when they go cap in hand to Dearborn for some capital for a new generation platform in a dying segment, they would sit up and take notice.

As for public backlash, you can count on it to a certain degree. One thing I touched on in another thread was the political fallout could be severe for Ford as well, for a number of reasons.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Forda

He also mentioned the worse than dismal hybrid sales by Toyota - remember the state & Federal govts kicked in $70m for the hybrid Camry alone!

It is interesting to note that Vfacts no longer show Camry Hybrid sales as a seperate model. Toyota obviously didn't want the public to know how poorly the vehicle is selling.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I dont like this comparison with Mitsubishi, it was a different situation. Their sales sucked and there was no light at the end of the tunnel

Ford is different, there is the diesel Territory, new LPG, new Ecoboost, New FGII, there is light!!!

I agree, FoA is in much better shape in everyway. My comment lasts until 2015/16, after that I think we know either two things are going to happen, GWRD or no Falcon. I think this is the case regardless of how well the next few years go, if its really good then GWRD makes sense.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It's been said before, but as long as FoA turn a profit, they more or less fly under the radar. But when they go cap in hand to Dearborn for some capital for a new generation platform in a dying segment, they would sit up and take notice.

As for public backlash, you can count on it to a certain degree. One thing I touched on in another thread was the political fallout could be severe for Ford as well, for a number of reasons.

True, but as above, I reckon they are buggered either way come next platform or not. I didn't like the idea of GWRD at the start, death of the home falcon, bye bye I6 etc...but it just makes sense. We get more tech, we keep some manufacturing and damage is minimized....perhaps getting OT now.

Id kill to be a fly on the wall in FoA HQ right now.

[BroadyFord]

Some detailed info in GoAuto with some explanation from Ford:

Ford and Toyota cut production

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578720022632B

Holden the only Australian manufacturer unaffected as Ford and Toyota cut outputs

14 April 2011
By MARTON PETTENDY
IN YET another blow to Australia’s automotive industry, Ford and Toyota today revealed deep production cuts for their local operations over the coming months.

The separate announcements, which came almost simultaneously this afternoon, have been blamed on two entirely different circumstances, leaving GM Holden as the only Australian car-maker to be unaffected by either sagging large-car sales or disrupted parts supplies as a result of last month’s Japanese earthquake.

Ford Australia issued a statement at 2.15pm AEST today revealing it would axe about 240 factory workers and reduce production by about 20 per cent from July as a direct result of declining Falcon sales.

Less than two hours later, Toyota Australia announced it will cut production at its Altona plant by about 50 per cent from May due to a lack of component supplies following Japan’s devastating quake and subsequent tsunami on March 11.

Holden, which two days ago announced a $112 million profit for 2010 after $579 million of accumulated losses over the preceding five years, continues to monitor its supply base in the wake of the quake but production of 430 vehicles per day so far remains unaffected at its Elizabeth plant in Adelaide.

GM’s Australian subsidiary, which underwent significant restructuring following its near-death experience during the GFC and its parent company’s bankruptcy in the US, currently employs about 2500 Holden Vehicle Operations workers but has closed its Family II four-cylinder engine plant in Melbourne and shed about 2100 jobs since 2008.

With production of its first small car – the Cruze, which received a $149 million boost from the federal government’s now-defunct Green Car Innovation Fund – now under way, Holden has returned to a two-shift operation five days a week after last year’s alternating “two-crew” arrangement that followed a slump in local and export Commodore sales.

Now heavily focussed on domestic sales, Holden last year exported 7800 Commodores to the Middle East, New Zealand, Brazil and South Africa – well down on the 52,000 it shipped in 2004, its last profitable year.

Holden’s domestic sales are down 11.8 per cent to March this year – about the same degree by which they increased in 2010, thanks largely to imports.

Export and domestic sales are also down at Toyota Australia, which grew its local sales by 6.8 per cent in 2010, when the total market was up by 10.5 per cent, but is down 7.3 per cent year-to-date thanks in part to 20 percent-plus declines of its locally produced Camry and Aurion models.

Now, however, Toyota Australia says the “short-term adjustment” for its Victorian plant from May will occur “to manage available parts supply following last month's Japan earthquake and tsunami”.

Toyota said the Altona factory will operate on a reduced schedule of around 50 per cent during May and that a similar outlook for June will see about 9600 Camry and Aurion vehicles produced for both domestic and export consumption in those two months.

Toyota is yet to announce its manufacturing plans for July but said it will continue to provide employment for its 3300 Altona workers, who from May 9 will work half-day shifts involving vehicle production and “where possible, training and plant improvement activities”.

Toyota spokesman Mike Breen told GoAuto that Altona staff would be paid 75 per cent of their regular wages during the reduced production period.

“It is important to note that this is a necessary response to a short-term supply issue and we intend to resume 100 per cent vehicle production as quickly as possible,” said Toyota Australia executive director of manufacturing Chris Harrod.

“Our focus is on ensuring optimum stock management to reduce the impact on customers of the immediate production shortfalls. It may be difficult to avoid some inconvenience for some customers.”

Toyota said it will endeavour to minimise delivery delays for its dealers and will continue to update customers as information becomes available via its public website.

“We are doing everything we can to support our employees, dealers and suppliers during this challenging situation,” said Toyota Australia’s Glenn Campbell.

“We want to be in a position to resume full production as soon as possible. It’s an unprecedented situation. Toyota Australia will adjust its vehicle production at its Altona manufacturing plat to match available parts supply and this follows last month’s Japan earthquake.”

For its part, the federal government said it was pleased that Toyota’s Melbourne workers remain in work.

“The company, workers and their unions have worked together to ensure that jobs will be kept and it is my understanding that the jobs of Toyota workers are not at risk,” said federal industry minister Kim Carr.

“This situation has been brought about by the after-effects of the recent Japanese earthquake and tsunami.

“The problem is not unique to Australia. Globally, integrated supply chains have been a feature of modern manufacturing for some time.

“I look forward to a speedy recovery of the Japanese suppliers and will be encouraging Australian component manufacturers to redouble their efforts to fill the gap,” said Senator Carr.

Toyota’s local manufacturing action plan follows the company announcement yesterday (April 13) that it will temporarily halt production at five of its European plants for several days in April and May due to quake-related parts shortages.

The move – which involves eight non-production days at Toyota plants in England, Wales, France, Turkey and Poland between April 21 and May 3 – follows the suspension of all output operations at most of its 14 North American factories for four to five weekdays later this month.

Toyota last week said that 50 per cent of production will take place between April 18 and 27 at its factories in Japan.

Meantime, Ford’s 20 per cent production reduction from July will not only include a fall in vehicle output from its Broadmeadows plant from 260 to 209 units per day from July, but also the shedding of about 240 jobs at both the company’s Melbourne and Geelong factories.

Ford Australia, which like Holden continued to unaffected by supply shortages, blamed its largest job-cutting measure since 2008, when it axed 800 jobs, squarely on the downsizing that has led to declining Falcon sales.

It would offer voluntary redundancy packages for those who could not be redeployed, with Geelong engine and casting plant staff most likely to be retained.

“The Geelong site probably has more opportunity for redeployment than Broadmeadows because of the casting plant contracts we have out there,” Ford Australia spokeswoman Sinead McAlary told GoAuto.

“That’s a part of the business that’s growing so we’ll look at that and work with the employees and the unions over the next few months, but where we can’t redeploy we’ll be offering voluntary redundancies.”

Designed to “more closely align production with current market demand”, Ford’s significant cut-backs from July follow a production slow-down to three days per week during the first three weeks of March.

Ford Australia is now back at full production and will remain so during April as the company prepares to release its upgraded/diesel Territory, but Ms McAlary told GoAuto that production will again reduce to three days a week during May and June.

“We’re back to full production now but we will be undertaking more down-days in May and June, which is also what we communicated to the union today,” she said.

“For May and June – until we can implement the down balance in the middle of July, and it takes a good three months to plan for that properly – we will be implementing more down-days, which will see working an average of three days a week.

“After that time we’ll be working normal production for five days a week, ongoing. Essentially – and this is a highly over-simplified version of the process – we slow the process down across the total manufacturing footprint, so you need less people when they have more time to do what they need to do.”

Ms McAlary said five-day-a-week production with a reduction in plant workers from 1800 to 1560 (which will see Ford Australia’s total workforce drop from 3400 to 3160 staff) was preferable to three-day-a-week production with current staffing levels - for both Ford and Australia’s supplier base, which is said to employ up to seven workers for every car factory worker.

“We’ve been running down-days for the last couple of months, as have our competitors, but it’s a disruptive way to go about business for our employees, for our quality and for our suppliers,” she said.

“So we took a look at the business and made the strategic decision that it was much better to actually align production to where realistic market demand is.

“We’ve done that before and we copped a fair amount of heat for doing it at the end of 2008, but it allowed us to return to profitability in 2009.

“It has been a global policy of Ford’s over the past few years that we do not want to get into heavy discounting of our vehicles, because it just erodes your customer loyalty base and your brand value more than anything else, so for the longer term we think the best thing is to realign production.

“That reduces the need for down-days which is obviously better for us, better for our quality control and far better for our suppliers, because if we’re having a down-day one day and Toyota’s having one another day - Holden’s had down-days too - then they can’t manage their businesses either, so this is better for everybody in the long run.”

As before, Ford workers will be paid either 50 or 60 per cent on the two down-days a week Ford that will average over the next two months, before reduced production commences with the smaller workforce in July.

“Our arrangement for down-days – and it differs for different days – is either 50 or 60 per cent, but our employees have the option to top that up to 100 per cent using sick leave or annual leave entitlements, which is what most of them do,” said Ms McAlary.

Ford is currently ramping production of the facelifted Territory and hopes its contracted production output from July will increase after the introduction of next-generation LPG and 2.0-litre four-cylinder versions of the Falcon in mid-2011 and early 2012 respectively – and the facelifted Falcon by October.

Ford has invested $232 million, including $42 million from the Australian government’s former green-car fund, to develop the Territory diesel and Falcon EcoLPI and EcoBoost models.

“One of the reasons we’ve announced this three months before we actually do it is because we need to manage the launch process,” said Ms McAlary.

“We obviously also have our new technologies coming in the next 12 month, which will stabilise and potentially grow sales again, but for now we needed to make the right decisions so that we can ensure our viability of the business ongoing.

“We’re currently producing the final sign-off vehicles for Territory - we’ll start shipping them to dealers in the next week or so. We had to go back to full production to do that and we will be trying to manage the launch process as we go through that.

“But from next month we’ll be back to three days and then from July it will return to five days with reduced output.”

Ford’s latest production cut-back is a turn-around from the significant levels of staff overtime it racked up in the first half of 2010, when its dealers were clamouring for cars after they reduced stock levels in the wake of the economic and wholesale financing crisis in 2008 and 2009.

So far this year, overall Ford sales are up 3.4 per cent in a 1.3 per cent smaller total market, after being down 1.3 per cent in 2010, but Falcon sales are down almost 40 per cent – on top of a near-five per cent decline last year.

The large-car segment is down more than 20 per cent in the first quarter of this year, following its substantial slide in the second half of last year. In the past decade, Falcon sales plunged by more than half – from 60,000 in 2000 to 29,516 last year.

Despite that, a leaner business and increased imports saw Ford Australia post its first positive financial result since 2005 in 2009, when it made a net operating profit of $13 million and promised to make further profitability gains in 2010.

“We returned Ford Australia to profitability in 2009, however, to continue strongly into the future we have to make the right business decisions now,” said Ford Australia president and CEO Bob Graziano today.

“Understandably, this announcement will be unsettling for staff, and we will work closely with our employees and our unions to ensure they are given all appropriate support and assistance.

“Ford is committed to making the necessary changes to ensure we are producing what Australian drivers want and value, which drives the viability of our business.

“This strategy has been successful for Ford around the globe and has contributed significantly to the company's strong recovery.”

Mr Graziano said that while the total number of vehicles it produces this year will reduce, Ford Australia will continue to manufacture a more profitable mix of vehicles in order to maximise its returns in the large car and medium SUV segments, while also increasing sales of its imported Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo models.

“In the past two years we have successfully improved our model mix to produce more of our premium models,” he said.

“This has seen our XR6 Falcon take over from the entry-level XT as the highest selling Falcon model and generated significant additional returns for the business.

“We are continuing to invest in the Falcon platform beyond the range of technology innovations and the refresh we are implementing in the next 12 months, demonstrating our on-going support for the large car segment in Australia.

“We are committed to the Ford brand and continuing to produce vehicles in Australia.”

Senator Carr said the federal government was disappointed with Ford’s move but would assist staff directly and by working with car-makers and unions.

“The government is very concerned at any job losses in manufacturing and especially concerned at job losses in Australia’s automotive manufacturing industry,” he said.

“Unfortunately, commercial decisions have meant that Ford needs to re-balance its operations to meet the demands of the market.

“Ford is, in part, doing this through the voluntary redundancies it is currently offering its workers.

“All affected workers will receive their full entitlements. Also, workers will be able to take advantage of the labour adjustment component of the government’s Automotive Industry Structural Adjustment Program, which can help fast-track them back into the workforce and assist with retraining and other support and assistance.

“While the past few months have been very difficult for Ford, there are promising signs for the company over the coming months with some exciting new products coming on stream.

“We will continue to work closely with Ford, its workers and their unions to move quickly through this period of adjustment as we have with other companies in the automotive industry,” said Senator Carr.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree, FoA is in much better shape in everyway. My comment lasts until 2015/16, after that I think we know either two things are going to happen, GWRD or no Falcon. I think this is the case regardless of how well the next few years go, if its really good then GWRD makes sense.



True, but as above, I reckon they are buggered either way come next platform or not. I didn't like the idea of GWRD at the start, death of the home falcon, bye bye I6 etc...but it just makes sense. We get more tech, we keep some manufacturing and damage is minimized....perhaps getting OT now.

Id kill to be a fly on the wall in FoA HQ right now.

I think GRWD as a concept is sound, but as a business case it is now dead in the water.

The liklihood of us getting 'new' RWD cars made here after 2015/2016 is looking extremely remote, unless Ford approves a plan to bring a 3 and 5 Series sized GRWD car to market that would underpin Lincolns for export to the Asian and European markets (as well as our own). No, I think future RWD cars for Australian consumption will be sourced from the US - namely the next generation Mustang and some sort of 4 door derivative kinda like the Jaguar XF.

As for manufacturing...who knows. I can see a C/D platform vehicle being built here but only if there is a viable business case to support it. A next gen Fusion, Edge and Mondeo liftback combined would do quite well and provide that business case.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I dont like this comparison with Mitsubishi, it was a different situation. Their sales sucked and there was no light at the end of the tunnel

Ford is different, there is the diesel Territory, new LPG, new Ecoboost, New FGII, there is light!!!

This is why getting rid of more workers has got me confused.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It's been said before, but as long as FoA turn a profit, they more or less fly under the radar. But when they go cap in hand to Dearborn for some capital for a new generation platform in a dying segment, they would sit up and take notice.

You'll find they go to Dearborn either way as they approve the money for the project. Hence why if a vehicle cannot be justified in a business case it gets canned.

[Road_Warrior]

“We are continuing to invest in the Falcon platform beyond the range of technology innovations and the refresh we are implementing in the next 12 months, demonstrating our on-going support for the large car segment in Australia.

“We are committed to the Ford brand and continuing to produce vehicles in Australia.”

Interesting. Spin for the media or...something else?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by vztrt

This is why getting rid of more workers has got me confused.

Yeah... I know what you mean.


Still bloody annoyed Burela cancelled Focus, Focus Ute and Kuga for domestic manufacture. I will go to my grave thinking that was the wrong decision. Anyway....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah... I know what you mean.


Still bloody annoyed Burela cancelled Focus, Focus Ute and Kuga for domestic manufacture. I will go to my grave thinking that was the wrong decision. Anyway....

I still umm and aah about this decision. And in fairness to Burela the deal was only about making the Focus and its body types - there was no plan to build the Kuga here or the 'Bantam' ute (is that what you mean?). They could have though, had the deal gone ahead. But still...it was a proposal that was treated on its merits at the time. I know it's 'cool' to hate on Tom Gorman on these forums, but the calls he made at the time with the Focus and the V6 for the Falcon were in the long term interests of keeping the plant running and keeping our Falcon going (and integrating into the global Ford empire) which is a damn sight more than what Ford has going for it now, impending tech and products notwithstanding. .

But producing a C segment car in Australia to compete in one of the most cut throat segments would not have generated much of a profit. They would have needed platform spinoffs like the Kuga to subsidise it. Hence the reason why Toyota said at the time Holden announced its Cruze decision "we can't work out how they will make money on it, we tried and it won't work".

Time will tell in that regard.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think GRWD as a concept is sound, but as a business case it is now dead in the water.

The liklihood of us getting 'new' RWD cars made here after 2015/2016 is looking extremely remote, unless Ford approves a plan to bring a 3 and 5 Series sized GRWD car to market that would underpin Lincolns for export to the Asian and European markets (as well as our own). No, I think future RWD cars for Australian consumption will be sourced from the US - namely the next generation Mustang and some sort of 4 door derivative kinda like the Jaguar XF.

As for manufacturing...who knows. I can see a C/D platform vehicle being built here but only if there is a viable business case to support it. A next gen Fusion, Edge and Mondeo liftback combined would do quite well and provide that business case.

I think those two products hold the key...Lincoln and Mustang, throw in Prodrive commitment to the 5.0 as a possible Linclon engine and I could see development being done here. Add to that FoA being called the 3rd PD centre and little bits gather pace.

I cant see any other car being made here (focus made no sense), we would only build to supply our market and the rest be done OS perhaps...a lot of crystall balling here and at the end of the day we should get a better product, what that costs us I guess is anyones prediction.

Other countries make cars for alot less than us, especially with the AUD currently. How the cruze and commodore are going to share the same space is going to be interesting.

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

“We are continuing to invest in the Falcon platform beyond the range of technology innovations and the refresh we are implementing in the next 12 months, demonstrating our on-going support for the large car segment in Australia.

“We are committed to the Ford brand and continuing to produce vehicles in Australia.”

Interesting. Spin for the media or...something else?

Means nothing. They all use the same language as air freshener to mask the smell of poo.

It's a long time until 2015 so perhaps they mean they are committed to producing cars in Oz only until then.

In reality, the high Australian dollar is to blame for most of what's going on in the large car segment. Cheap imports are now cheaper than ever before eroding the market share of locally-built large cars. Toyota is losing money on every Camry they export and GMH's exports are a fraction of what they were at their peak. Ford cannot possibly export any future Falcon if the exchange rate is the same or higher than now in 2015 which IMO is their only avenue of hope for continuing to manufacture here.

Sad but true.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Let me guess....you smashed it didn't you.

Personally I think they should do a re-run of the Tradesman ute pack

Yep got it one...



Your right though a Tradesman pack would be good. Free alloy tray, limited slip diff, alloy wheels and Bluetooth. Would be popular.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah... I know what you mean.


Still bloody annoyed Burela cancelled Focus, Focus Ute and Kuga for domestic manufacture. I will go to my grave thinking that was the wrong decision. Anyway....

Bill Osbourne wanted more, his plan was to build Mondeo here as well.....
That IMO, should still be done as FoA could make good money off it and
start plugging it as Australian made, fuel efficient and green alternative.
Evolve away from Falcon onto global platforms....Fusion/Mondeo and Edge.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Bill Osbourne wanted more, his plan was to build Mondeo here as well.....
That IMO, should still be done as FoA could make good money off it and
start plugging it as Australian made, fuel efficient and green alternative.
Evolve away from Falcon onto global platforms....Fusion/Mondeo and Edge.

IMO this is the only chance for FoA (as a local manufacturer) post 2015 / 6...

But where will the money come from ????

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

IMO this is the only chance for FoA (as a local manufacturer) post 2015 / 6...

But where will the money come from ????

The way car are built, Ford is into fractal element design,
meaning that there's already a bit of EUCD in the falcon
and most Ford cars are built the same way with most functions
performed at the same stages and work stations.....

This is where the money is saved and less changes are needed,
most things needed to reconfigure for Focus were done already
meaning Mondeo would be not that difficult to implement...

FG brought Falcon build process into line with other Ford vehicles...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Still bloody annoyed Burela cancelled Focus, Focus Ute and Kuga for domestic manufacture. I will go to my grave thinking that was the wrong decision. Anyway....

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Toyota said at the time Holden announced its Cruze decision "we can't work out how they will make money on it, we tried and it won't work".

what would toyota know i guess!!

how could we build focus here cheaper than in thailand? or china? just curious to know why some people think they know more than the bean counters at ford.

... and yes, i do think they are much more qualifyed to make the decisions they do, than just about everyone on this forum.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah... I know what you mean.


Still bloody annoyed Burela cancelled Focus, Focus Ute and Kuga for domestic manufacture. I will go to my grave thinking that was the wrong decision. Anyway....

Kuga was NEVER on the cards to be built in Australia (even iuf it is on same plant form), this is just wisefull thinking on your behalf!!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

what would toyota know i guess!!

how could we build focus here cheaper than in thailand? or china? just curious to know why some people think they know more than the bean counters at ford.

... and yes, i do think they are much more qualifyed to make the decisions they do, than just about everyone on this forum.

They did know better! After all they did approve the thing being built here. Burela came in and overturned the V6 engine and local Focus and derivatives. Or do we forget that it was approved???