How many Kids have to DIE before the Government pulls their finger out????

[Whitey-AMG]

My father has a saying.....
The apple never falls too far from the tree..
The parents of these kids have some soul searching during the grieving period.

We dont need more cops and we dont need more driver education.
What has transpired here is beyond general societal controls.
Home is where the heart is.....responsible parenting and involvement with your kids lives cannot be overlooked here.

I feel sorry for all involved......

[Mr_Meaner]

Kids doing this kind of **** have no positive future.

Society has just been done a favour.

[79raven]

Originally Posted by Mr_Meaner

Kids doing this kind of **** have no positive future.

Society has just been done a favour.

Hang on a sec mate, you telling me you never made a mistake? Even something minor that you have done or will do can have an adverse effect. Who's to say this kid could not have came up with the cure for Cancer in a few years? Its easy to say goodbye to bad seeds, but if it was your kid who died would you have the same outlook? If I turn my back on my 2 year old for a minute and she puts something in a power point, does that mean she had no positive future and deserves to die? People make mistakes, its only the depth that varies.

[GQ_Smooth]

Time to close thread soon.

[blk6t]

It is a touchy subject, the Government can't always be to blame.
State Govt controls and laws I think are more than enough to control the masses. I do think driver training needs to be mandatory in schools. Driving is a big part of our lives and the fact that schools don't teach anything relating to driving is a BIG issue.

I find it ridiculous that that I learned to play a recorder in high school, but my school never taught me about driver safety and the dangers of speeding. When the hell am I ever going to use a recorder in life again???

We can't always blame the parents, we have all done stupid things when we got our license. If you honestly think that because you have great parents and your a A grade student, that your never going to hoon or speed...your living in LALA land.....yes there are shocking parents with kids that I feel really sorry for, most of which have already seen the inside of a juvenile cell.

Unfortunately there is no single answer to stop kids being killed behind the wheel of a car, no matter how harsh the laws, no matter how big the fine, even if you threatened 10 years in prison for speeding offenses....our younger drivers will still take a risks behind the wheel...No matter what you do or who you blame, as long as we drive cars on roads, young people will die in accidents.

Remember the masses are OK drivers, the masses are driving less powerful cars, the masses do have accidents, but are usually very minor...and it's usually enough to scare them into line.

[turbodewd]

There is also the chance that these are regular kids who made a dumb decision. Group dynamics and peer pressure and certain personality types can lead to disaster. There might have been 2 popular kids and 4 meek followers. The popular kids might have had a dumb idea they thought harmless...and it balloons from there.

[2011G6E]

Huh...guess "group dynamics" and "peer pressure" have changed a lot since I was a young bloke in the late seventies and started driving in '82...back then it involved stuff like being fifteen and someone saying "go on...have a beer...no one will care that you're underaged", to being 17 and someone saying "let's all head out to Thompsons Road outside Bundy and have some drag races".

Don't ever actually remember it involving kids saying "Hey, let's go and steal a car and try to get the cops to chase us"...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by blk6t

I find it ridiculous that that I learned to play a recorder in high school, but my school never taught me about driver safety and the dangers of speeding. When the hell am I ever going to use a recorder in life again???

They forced this on us from Grade 3 to 6 in primary school, time would have been better spent learning maths/english to be honest.

Also we spent a lot of time learning Indonesian, the only thing I can remember in Indonesian is that Nasi Goreng is fried rice.

[Sprint]

why just car driving?


why dont they teach" basic human stupidity" in school.

hahaha

[blueoval]

On a side note,

I'd like to know if there was a speed camera in the area, how the speed camera would have saved these people's lives???

Seeing as govco's motto is 'speed cameras save lives', I'd really like to know how a speed camera could have saved the lives of these people.

Something tells me, it would have done SFA.

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by ESP

My father has a saying.....
The apple never falls too far from the tree..
The parents of these kids have some soul searching during the grieving period.

We dont need more cops and we dont need more driver education.
What has transpired here is beyond general societal controls.
Home is where the heart is.....responsible parenting and involvement with your kids lives cannot be overlooked here.

I feel sorry for all involved......

Sorry I can't agree with anything that suggests not educating drivers. Our standards are lower than many other developed countries as it is. The number of our drivers who can actually regain control or maintain control of a motor vehicle when things go haywire is not that large.

If education saves some kids it will be worth it and in time as the these kids get older and have kids of their own the ideas and practices will be passed on to them.

Compulsory education was introduced to give the kids with usless parents a fair go at learning because the parents don't care. The same thing can be done with driver education. Bad parents are always going to be out there and as much as we whinge about them that won't change, so society needs to step in and give kids in this situation a chance and change the perception of what it means to be a good responsible driver.

We will never stop kids dying on the roads but it is a percentage of fatalities that can be brought down from what it is now and draconian measures that keep getting worse don't work!

I too feel sorry for all those involved!

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by 79raven

Hang on a sec mate, you telling me you never made a mistake? Even something minor that you have done or will do can have an adverse effect. Who's to say this kid could not have came up with the cure for Cancer in a few years? Its easy to say goodbye to bad seeds, but if it was your kid who died would you have the same outlook? If I turn my back on my 2 year old for a minute and she puts something in a power point, does that mean she had no positive future and deserves to die? People make mistakes, its only the depth that varies.

Mate, please don't compare your 2 year old putting something into a power point with these low lifes. Have I made mistakes before? Yes, plenty. Any of them criminal? NO WAY. I'll say it again: I'm just grateful that innocent people were not killed. I don't care how old they were. Even the youngest at 12 knows that stealing a car is wrong. If they fell to peer pressure, we don't need weak willed people like that in our society. What happens if when they were older they were 'peer pressured' into murdering someone?

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Sorry I can't agree with anything that suggests not educating drivers. Our standards are lower than many other developed countries as it is. The number of our drivers who can actually regain control or maintain control of a motor vehicle when things go haywire is not that large.

If education saves some kids it will be worth it and in time as the these kids get older and have kids of their own the ideas and practices will be passed on to them.

Compulsory education was introduced to give the kids with usless parents a fair go at learning because the parents don't care. The same thing can be done with driver education. Bad parents are always going to be out there and as much as we whinge about them that won't change, so society needs to step in and give kids in this situation a chance and change the perception of what it means to be a good responsible driver.

We will never stop kids dying on the roads but it is a percentage of fatalities that can be brought down from what it is now and draconian measures that keep getting worse don't work!

I too feel sorry for all those involved!

I agree with driver education, but this incident had NOTHING to do with driver education. These were criminals - they STOLE a car!

[noflac52]

As I said some will still fall through the cracks! We can never save them all from being young and stupid but if the attitude of a few can be changed thats more than our present system does and every kid is worth a try.

They stole a car, didn't know how to drive it properly, crashed and some died and you say it has NOTHING to do with driver education. It was a crime it was wrong in many ways but if the kid could drive better maybe they would still be here.

[mik]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Mate, please don't compare your 2 year old putting something into a power point with these low lifes. Have I made mistakes before? Yes, plenty. Any of them criminal? NO WAY. I'll say it again: I'm just grateful that innocent people were not killed. I don't care how old they were. Even the youngest at 12 knows that stealing a car is wrong. If they fell to peer pressure, we don't need weak willed people like that in our society. What happens if when they were older they were 'peer pressured' into murdering someone?

the problem is , kids know not of consequences, the old saying you can`t put an old head on young shoulders imo is very true.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Just heard on the News that some of these kids were in the States care, WTF!!!

2 issues here:

1. What were their carers doing at the time? I hope there is an investigation.

2. This is another example of my previous point, the break down of the family unit.

agreed Trev, having come from a dysfunctional /broken/family, i can truly say i think it`s a far greater problem than many people think about, and coming from a dysfunctional /broken family , growing up i found i ended up hanging with mates who also came from dysfunctional families, does any one see a pattern here?
all of us knew right from wrong , yet we all ended up getting into mischief at some stage , some of the mate`s did`nt survive past youth age, one ended up a paraplegic due to booze, for some of us the penny dropped and we became good citizens (i think).
if you have grown up in a good non impoverished households with 2 good parents and a stable home life it`s probably hard to see how people(even youngsters) can do screwed up things, but if you have come from that other environment , it`s very easy to see.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

There is also the chance that these are regular kids who made a dumb decision. Group dynamics and peer pressure and certain personality types can lead to disaster. There might have been 2 popular kids and 4 meek followers. The popular kids might have had a dumb idea they thought harmless...and it balloons from there.

What's a bunch of 16 and 12 year olds doing out past midnight........
Parents didn't realise the kids are missing ? Dumb decision is picking the wrong flavoured icy pole........12 year olds loitering around at midnight and stealing cars is off the scale premeditated stupidity. This isn't something that just pops into your head........there's some bad culture buried deep inside there..........

[JC]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Every kid I knew was hit by their parents. Several of my mates were beaten or intimidated by the police.

In spite of all of this strict discipline kids still did really stupid things, just like those kids did yesterday.

Just on the point of hitting as discipline - most of us are talking about an open handed smack, perhaps a wooden spoon, and maybe even a very few are talking about a belt (though the latter are viewed as weapons and you can be charged). We are not talking about beating a child with fists and the like - that is child abuse and is not discipline.

.......returning to the topic at hand..........

The reports I have heard are that some of these kids were on the state's watch list, not in the state's direct care as some have stated. ie, the homes they come from are abusive, or the parents neglect them, or the kids are known to authorities.

[Dusty1]

This is a tragedy, but the reality is that nothing is going to stop idiots from being idiots.

What gets me, as a poster said earlier, is the 'they were a good kid etc...'. I remember the car accident at the end of the Westgate before Millers Road a few years ago. That stretch has always been a speedway with idiots wanting to show who's car can go from 80 to 100 the fastest I've done it, but not now and not racing someone else. These kids were put up as pillars of society, never did anything wrong. That they got caught for until someone died.

Sad, but the government isn't to blame, whether it is federal or state. These kids were in an early Camry FFS! Proves you can act like an idiot in anything and get killed as a result, not just high performance/modified vehicles..

[rst2000]

Originally Posted by ESP

What's a bunch of 16 and 12 year olds doing out past midnight........
Parents didn't realise the kids are missing ? Dumb decision is picking the wrong flavoured icy pole........12 year olds loitering around at midnight and stealing cars is off the scale premeditated stupidity. This isn't something that just pops into your head........there's some bad culture buried deep inside there..........

the kids are under the care of the govt as they are "wards of state"...or that's how they are now starting to report it.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by rst2000

the kids are under the care of the govt as they are "wards of state"...or that's how they are now starting to report it.

Oh dear...........

[79raven]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Mate, please don't compare your 2 year old putting something into a power point with these low lifes. Have I made mistakes before? Yes, plenty. Any of them criminal? NO WAY. I'll say it again: I'm just grateful that innocent people were not killed. I don't care how old they were. Even the youngest at 12 knows that stealing a car is wrong. If they fell to peer pressure, we don't need weak willed people like that in our society. What happens if when they were older they were 'peer pressured' into murdering someone?

So you have never spun your wheels on a public rd? Not even a small one? If so thats illegal and therefore breaking the law.
What I mean by the 2 year old thing ( and 2 isn't a good age to use as a comparison sorry), we are all young dumb and full of cum at one point. We all think we are bullet proof and it wont happen to us. Wisdom comes with age and experience, thats all I was saying.
Also its just a shame that this person will never know what us older people take for granted i.e kids, morgage, falling in love. Just because of a stupid idea that kids lights are out, yes thankfully no innocent people died, but someone still did. There crime, a lapse of brain function that's now cost the ultimate price.
Lastly, who can say this youth couldn't have turned there life around and became a valid member of society? They could have also been a serial killer but we will never know.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by 79raven

So you have never spun your wheels on a public rd? Not even a small one? If so thats illegal and therefore breaking the law.
What I mean by the 2 year old thing ( and 2 isn't a good age to use as a comparison sorry), we are all young dumb and full of cum at one point. We all think we are bullet proof and it wont happen to us. Wisdom comes with age and experience, thats all I was saying.

Thinking one is bullet proof (hooning in your own car or ya mates once you HAVE a licence is one thing...) going out to deliberately steal a car (with no licence) while your of not "legal" age (young teens) and no doubt running away/ sneaking out with a group of other young teens is on a bit of another level of stupidity.

I never had the urge to commit a major crime of car theft and joy riding at that age...

[zilo]

I can't see what the problem is....

You steal a car, run over a few people, pull out a knife...stab a policeman,

wave down a ferrari...steal that after knocking the driver unconscious.....

Drive it into a river, do a "save game"...


Then press the reset button and pick the Brembo brakes and pickup where you failed from...

Isn't that how kids think it works?

That's how..... Grand Theft Auto .....works

[zilo]

I openly admit to stealing a car with a bunch of mates when I was 15.

we also crashed it...they all do...we were lucky that was the only difference

Good old HR holdens...you just turned the key flap without a key and the 186 roared into life.

We saw how to do it on "Matlock Police" on tv....

And yes...parents were nowhere to be seen.

[79raven]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Thinking one is bullet proof (hooning in your own car or ya mates once you HAVE a licence is one thing...) going out to deliberately steal a car (with no licence) while your of not "legal" age (young teens) and no doubt running away/ sneaking out with a group of other young teens is on a bit of another level of stupidity.

I never had the urge to commit a major crime of car theft and joy riding at that age...

Doing a burnout or stealing a car is still illegal. Both can easily turn into someone dying at the blink of an eye. If you went out tonight, smoked up the wheels and lost control, killing someone or yourself it would be the same, it would just be your car you did it in and not somebody elses.

[GTJOHN]

We are always so quick to blame upbringing and so on for these actions..
yes people do have bad home lives, it happens. BUT they must still know right from wrong,
all were young , on a school night and alcohol was also present. This was always a disaster waiting to happen. Very sad and preventable loss of young lives... Even in a bad home situation, is there still no sort of supervision at all ???.... This time it cost kids their lives, next time a innocent party may also be deprived of life and no government regulation can stop stupidity and kids with a reckless attitude.

[79raven]

Dont get me wrong Jim Goose, Im not having a go mate but just saying I am sure this kid didnt go out deliberately wanting to crash the car and die, just like doing a burn out we all think it wont happen to us.
I have never thought this was a valid excuse, but does anyone think movies and music have to be blamed? Honestly, I have done some BAD stuff in my time for reasons I will not get into. I never watched a movie and thought I could be just like Nicholas Cage if I steal a car and get chased by the cops, but that might just be me. Any thought on that one?

[79raven]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

image

They forced this on us from Grade 3 to 6 in primary school, time would have been better spent learning maths/english to be honest.

Also we spent a lot of time learning Indonesian, the only thing I can remember in Indonesian is that Nasi Goreng is fried rice.

So you can play hot cross buns on a recorder and comfortably go to an Indonesian restaurant and order fried rice, but your not happy? Some people are just hard to please.
What are you going to say when the world as we know it ends and in the new world a mans worth is judged on his recorder playing skills?

[xxx000]

people have always made wrong choices in life, sadly these kids did too

you can hardly blame a government for that, young people have always felt invincible hence why they drive faster and generally take more risks than their older parents