The Eagle has Landed..or The Falcon has plummeted

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Careful where you tread here.
You take the point of need vs want for SUV style cars. Others could do the same with V8s, why do you NEED one when a turbo 6 can do the same?
Why do you need a station wagon when a SUV can do the same and more?

Fact of the matter is, there is a lot we don't need, but we have the freedom to want (or in some cases need) it and if the opportunity arises we buy it.

What you categorise as a need vs a want, others may or may not differ.

G'day , May I ask why you compare V8's to Turbo 6..Not what we're talking about here...For the record..some people just like a V8..some just like a Turbo 6..a preference of powerplant , not type of car..I accept your other points but not that..Cheers Rod

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

The good ole tuned FG2 GT actually gave 2 Huracans a run for their money. Nailing the throttle from 60kph to well over 130, the exotic overpriced designer twins couldn't pull away from the GT, much to the owners' surprise.

Yip I'm having fun dusting Euro stuff over here. They drive a badge and look down on the GT until they see the tail lights. Great fun.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day , May I ask why you compare V8's to Turbo 6..Not what we're talking about here...For the record..some people just like a V8..some just like a Turbo 6..a preference of powerplant , not type of car..I accept your other points but not that..Cheers Rod

To emphasise the point of what you perceive as want vs need.
It isn't and wasn't a V8 vs turbo 6 discussion.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

Yip I'm having fun dusting Euro stuff over here. They drive a badge and look down on the GT until they see the tail lights. Great fun.

You too are dusting off Huracans (5.2l V10 449kW 1422kg 0-200 9.9s top speed 325km/h) ?

P.S. just noticed you got 505rwkw -you actually might stay with Lambo until aero kicks in

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

You too are dusting off Huracans (5.2l V10 449kW 1422kg 0-200 9.9s top speed 325km/h) ?

P.S. just noticed you got 505rwkw -you actually might stay with Lambo until aero kicks in

Expected to get toasted by the Huracans. But 390kw at the treads in the GT with just a tune proved to be more potent than I expected.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Most people can't afford/don't want to afford/don't have the space for multiple cars, so one car that can do multiple things is needed. Can't move bulky items in a sedan, can't transport a dog in a sedan without trashing the interior etc.

In my case I needed a sensible family car that could occasionally carry bulky items, be a comfortable long distance cruiser, (easy so far) but the next requirement that narrowed the contenders considerably - it had to be fun to drive. The VF sport wagon ticks all those boxes... there isn't anything else on the market like it at that price.

Agree with this (tho we did buy an AWD Territory, great product & showcase of Aussie ingenuity). The last Aussie car I will be getting is a Sportwagon. Their recent dedication to E85 was a good thing too, we could 'grow' the fuel here in Australia if needed.

After Aussie cars, to shine a ray of light on things, I'm finding the Tesla approach very compelling - fully electric, generate your fuel on your roof, pay little for maintenance as far fewer moving parts - no bill at the petrol pump, little bill at the mechanic/dealer. Oh and it smokes the current hot hatch dinosaurs in 0/100. Bring it.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Agree with this (tho we did buy an AWD Territory, great product & showcase of Aussie ingenuity). The last Aussie car I will be getting is a Sportwagon. Their recent dedication to E85 was a good thing too, we could 'grow' the fuel here in Australia if needed.

After Aussie cars, to shine a ray of light on things, I'm finding the Tesla approach very compelling - fully electric, generate your fuel on your roof, pay little for maintenance as far fewer moving parts - no bill at the petrol pump, little bill at the mechanic/dealer. Oh and it smokes the current hot hatch dinosaurs in 0/100. Bring it.

Sounds like we're on the same page - love the Tesla's and really really want one.

Just in case you weren't aware though, Holden quietly dropped the E85 compatibility mid VF1

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Sounds like we're on the same page - love the Tesla's and really really want one.

Just in case you weren't aware though, Holden quietly dropped the E85 compatibility mid VF1

Yeah, I know. VE II and VFMY14 are the models with it. I think the 3.6 took longer as on launch VE II was only 3.0 and V8 with this capability. Going for one of these in 6cyl form is opening a can of worms as of a) timing chains b) sludge buildup and c) carbonation in cylinders so caveat emptor. Your ol' reliable red 186 this motor is not! Still worth doing the checking and work if you value fuel independence. One fellow on the Commodore forums further tuned his V8 and went 100% ethanol with success. Much cleaner running.

VF for long trips, Telsa model 3 for town. Keep the AWD Territory for the snow

[Sprintey]

add to that

d) oil consumption and e) oil sucked after PCV fault and pooling in join of intake and throttle body

ah, Holden alloy V6s...

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Fairly subjective Post - you don't know everybodys circumstances.

Why did you need a Falcon?

G'day...Easy answer..Because I needed a car I KNOW will see me through for a nice few years..Answer is Falcon..I NEED a Falcon...Thanks for asking Cheers Rod

[Boosted8]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I've got a bridge, it's a really, really big one.

Well, the door handle is part of the door skin isn't it?

Pretty bad design when it can just be pulled off.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Agree with this (tho we did buy an AWD Territory, great product & showcase of Aussie ingenuity). The last Aussie car I will be getting is a Sportwagon. Their recent dedication to E85 was a good thing too, we could 'grow' the fuel here in Australia if needed.

After Aussie cars, to shine a ray of light on things, I'm finding the Tesla approach very compelling - fully electric, generate your fuel on your roof, pay little for maintenance as far fewer moving parts - no bill at the petrol pump, little bill at the mechanic/dealer. Oh and it smokes the current hot hatch dinosaurs in 0/100. Bring it.

Dunno Sprintey , fewer moving parts ......... maayybeeeee , i still think these things are far from the simple electric car that people think they are ............ real life servicing costs ???? good question
i`d put a crisp 50 on it, 5 years ownership compared to a similar normal sedan overall cost would be very similar, happy to be proven wrong though.

[Sprintey]

Gremlins in the software, wiring... we will have to wait and see

Generating your own fuel is certainly a bonus

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

add to that

d) oil consumption and e) oil sucked after PCV fault and pooling in join of intake and throttle body

ah, Holden alloy V6s...

I'll add just one more:

f) just an all-round horrible engine in every way


(IMO)

[mik]

Originally Posted by Sleek the Elite

Absolute disgrace that falcons & even commobores will no longer be built in this country.

Every country needs a strong manufacturing industry & we've given ours away.

Government fleet sales (or lack thereof) have killed off the falcon.

On a positive note, how good were the BA falcons? Part of the reason they sold plenty was because they were a big step up from the previous model.

half way through reading your post i clicked on liked post , then saw your comment on the b series being so much better than the AU ..... i had to remove it .
yes the b series had some good upgrades , it wasnt all peaches and cream though and the Au models to this day are still better in some areas..

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...Easy answer..Because I needed a car I KNOW will see me through for a nice few years..Answer is Falcon..I NEED a Falcon...Thanks for asking Cheers Rod

There are a lot of cars that could see you through for a nice few years better and cheaper than a Falcon.

You wanted a Falcon - nothing wrong with that.

Just like the majority of People want an SUV over a large Sedan.

The difference is I can give supporting reasons why people would want the SUV

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by mik

half way through reading your post i clicked on liked post , then saw your comment on the b series being so much better than the AU ..... i had to remove it .
yes the b series had some good upgrades , it wasnt all peaches and cream though and the Au models to this day are still better in some areas..

G'day..I've had both , AU and BA ..I still have my AU ll and now an FG XR6..As I mentioned on this before..Even though both 2001 AU and 2003 BA weren't worth much as trades on the XR6..I had no hesitation on keeping my AU..The BA was really good to own for a while but as a daily the AU is actually superior.
Can't really put my finger on why either.. The BA was more powerful , it was better kitted out being a Fairmont , it was shiny-er..the AU is showing signs of oxidisation..but it just felt a better driving car for day to day..Not only that but in 13 years it's been near as dammit trouble free..and the BA needed Centre shaft replacing..issues with handbrake twice....and the ICC a couple of times..Nothing big but ......Anyway I kept the AU..got rid of the BA..That's just me though..Cheers Rod..

[beardo]

We have an au and ba. Au is much better except for the horrendous front seats. Series 1 ba xr seats are the best seat around for me and my back issues. Any of you guys going to start hoarding au's and ba's as they are starting to get stacked up at the tip

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by mik

yes the b series had some good upgrades , it wasnt all peaches and cream though and the Au models to this day are still better in some areas..

The B-series was the car that brought the Falcon into the 21st century. It had advanced (for its day) technologies such as DOHC DIVCT and turbo upgrades to the 4.0-litre six, drive-by-wire, dual zone climate, and later on, a ZF six speed auto.

It also had ergonomic improvements such as having much better seats which are directly in line with the steering wheel, a smaller, chunkier steering wheel, power adjustable pedal height and a generally better designed dash and centre stack with bigger, easier to reach buttons.

To my mind, the B-series is vastly superior to the AU and one of the best Falcons ever made, relative to its time.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by NX74205

The B-series was the car that brought the Falcon into the 21st century. It had advanced (for its day) technologies such as DOHC DIVCT and turbo upgrades to the 4.0-litre six, drive-by-wire, dual zone climate, and later on, a ZF six speed auto.

It also had ergonomic improvements such as having much better seats which are directly in line with the steering wheel, a smaller, chunkier steering wheel, power adjustable pedal height and a generally better designed dash and centre stack with bigger, easier to reach buttons.

To my mind, the B-series is vastly superior to the AU and one of the best Falcons ever made, relative to its time.

The ICC, standard IRS and DOHC/Turbo engine on the BA made the AU look antiquated (at face value) but lack lustre interior materials, a drive experience that doesn't match the engineering upgrades (that were spruiked) and niggly problems tarnish B-Series unfortunately. (IMO)

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I'll add just one more:

f) just an all-round horrible engine in every way


(IMO)

Yep, I raise a toast to the old 3.8 VY 'boat anchor' and SOHC AU Ford 6, and their much higher quality interior materials

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

The ICC, standard IRS and DOHC/Turbo engine on the BA made the AU look antiquated (at face value) but lack lustre interior materials, a drive experience that doesn't match the engineering upgrades (that were spruiked) and niggly problems tarnish B-Series unfortunately. (IMO)

Ford have had a pattern over the Falcon's life of improving in one area, then degrading in another in every Falcon generational change.

BA's improvement in engine sophistication was countered by cheaper interior materials. (Check the carpet quality between a AU and BA Fairmont).

FG's improved in technology and safety features again countered by lower quality parts and a lack of buyer options.

Its this pattern of give and take that has kept the Falcon affordable and allowed us a chance to buy performance bargains like XR's and FPV's

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Ford have had a pattern over the Falcon's life of improving in one area, then degrading in another in every Falcon generational change.

BA's improvement in engine sophistication was countered by cheaper interior materials. (Check the carpet quality between a AU and BA Fairmont).

FG's improved in technology and safety features again countered by lower quality parts and a lack of buyer options.

Its this pattern of give and take that has kept the Falcon affordable and allowed us a chance to buy performance bargains like XR's and FPV's

Yes, funny to watch the things that came and went over the generations. Little things like door pockets in every door, screws holding trims together, sound system quality/features like DSP/Dolby in EF/EL, power sockets in all doors (XF?), factory sunroof, 12 way seat adjustment in DL LTD.

[turbodewd]

The graph is misleading.

The entire auto industry in Aus now massively segmented, there are so many more manufacturers and models. The Commodore is still a top 10 seller most of the time. The Falcon could maybe have been, but it needed an expensive refresh and Ford USA wasnt going to stump up the cash for the small RHD Aussie market.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Ford have had a pattern over the Falcon's life of improving in one area, then degrading in another in every Falcon generational change.

BA's improvement in engine sophistication was countered by cheaper interior materials. (Check the carpet quality between a AU and BA Fairmont).

FG's improved in technology and safety features again countered by lower quality parts and a lack of buyer options.

Its this pattern of give and take that has kept the Falcon affordable and allowed us a chance to buy performance bargains like XR's and FPV's

I agree with one exception, EL to AU. The AU in just my humble opinion was the one Ford nailed in every way (I liked the Fortè).

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

The graph is misleading.

The entire auto industry in Aus now massively segmented, there are so many more manufacturers and models. The Commodore is still a top 10 seller most of the time. The Falcon could maybe have been, but it needed an expensive refresh and Ford USA wasnt going to stump up the cash for the small RHD Aussie market.

Plus a very calculated shut down process that has limited the volume potential, especially on Territory.

[mik]

Originally Posted by NX74205

The B-series was the car that brought the Falcon into the 21st century. It had advanced (for its day) technologies such as DOHC DIVCT and turbo upgrades to the 4.0-litre six, drive-by-wire, dual zone climate, and later on, a ZF six speed auto.

It also had ergonomic improvements such as having much better seats which are directly in line with the steering wheel, a smaller, chunkier steering wheel, power adjustable pedal height and a generally better designed dash and centre stack with bigger, easier to reach buttons.

To my mind, the B-series is vastly superior to the AU and one of the best Falcons ever made, relative to its time.

i have had my au 11 or 12 years and never noticed the steering wheel being offset, i`ll have a look next time im in it : )

i cant argue with a lot of what you have said there ......... but i have driven a stocker ba/bf some years ago, i cant remember which, and it was good enough to drive, but i still like the feel of my xr6, it just has a cocoon aura feel about it , steering feels very nice , sit a bit lower in the seat too ,
foot pedals already feel just beautiful , and i agree the au dash may be a tad underwhelming for the eye candy but it works,
by comparison it does not look clinical like a jumbo instrument panel with a mass of buttons ,
you dont even have to look at dash to find a heater control , its just a nice place to be even if it looks like your old slipper the dogs been playing with around the yard.
and the au still brought a lot of good things to the table, good aero dynamics, good handling, fail safe cooling system , reliability , a mass of different power plants , and going back to the interior , , the timer on car radio was a nice thing , sunglasses holder on the roof .

And last but not least durability , im still on my same ball joints from march 2001 build date , and 99% of the suspension bar the konis is still original , same diff , same auto , same head gasget , same timing chain , still goes well , starts with the flick of a key ...... so on that note of which is superior , we will agree to disagree .

[OZQUAD44]

All this gushing about the AU.... Look at the graph guys, the AU kicked the whole Falcon concept in the Knughts, if it wasn't for the BA, the falcon would have been lost to us 5 years ago. As good as the drive line of the AU was, it was a mutt only its mother could love.

I would agree that it has aged better than many cars on the road, because it is out there, but in its time it belted ford AU hard. I look at that car as one of the contributing factors as to why we no longer have and Australian Ford, so it gets no love from me I'm afraid.



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[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

All this gushing about the AU.... Look at the graph guys, the AU kicked the whole Falcon concept in the Knughts, if it wasn't for the BA, the falcon would have been lost to us 5 years ago. As good as the drive line of the AU was, it was a mutt only its mother could love.

I would agree that it has aged better than many cars on the road, because it is out there, but in its time it belted ford AU hard. I look at that car as one of the contributing factors as to why we no longer have and Australian Ford, so it gets no love from me I'm afraid.



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As one of the gushers, I'll say that AUs styling hampered it as a product (and that was reflected in sales numbers) but that doesn't mean the drive experience and better (but the not the best ever) quality build never happened.

Yes, BA and Territory sparked sales numbers back up again with their handsome styling and tech additions but as many found out there were comprises to be made.

I'm not sure how you can pin Ford Aus closure on AU, as Ford sold tens of thousands of B series and Territories afterwards.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

All this gushing about the AU.... Look at the graph guys, the AU kicked the whole Falcon concept in the Knughts, if it wasn't for the BA, the falcon would have been lost to us 5 years ago. As good as the drive line of the AU was, it was a mutt only its mother could love.

I would agree that it has aged better than many cars on the road, because it is out there, but in its time it belted ford AU hard. I look at that car as one of the contributing factors as to why we no longer have and Australian Ford, so it gets no love from me I'm afraid.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

G'day...That's ridiculous ..Makes no sense at all...Go out and look properly..BA /BF sold really well for a period so how in any way was that blamed on AU...I'll tell you something else for nothing..AU TS/TE/TL 50's are one of the most stunning and sought after Falcons , not just AU's of all time...and a good AU (which is most of them) have come into their own ..and appreciated..Clearly you are not one of those people..I feel sorry for you...cheers Rod..