BF XR8 price puts it out of market

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think the majority of Ford based respondants have been remarkebly balanced and have constructed their arguements backed with factual evidence rather than personal opinion...

'No offence dude, but you must be going for the trifecta in the dumbest arguements anyones ever heard.'
Then you run away with it whilst us reasonable people laugh and think that those of your ilk must be jealous of ford.
. Especially when the 5.4 has superior torque that is also delivered a lot sooner than a rattling, slapping, pushrodded, oil drinking, toyota sounding hunk of junk coupled to a 1981 3 speed valve bodied auto with a lock up torque converter.'

Yeah, real balanced argument there :hihi:

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by fast66

A little harsh don't you think? What exactly is this crusade im on?
What im basically saying, (albeit with a degree of sarcasm), is that this is a Ford Forum, and as such THE MAJORITY of respondents are biased to Ford, and therefore unbiased discussion is unlikely.
If AFF is so open to opinions, then mine is just as valid as anyone elses, so who is wearing the Toothbrush moustache?
You can have your Ford any colour, as long as its BLUE!

Not harsh in the slightest! Almost restrained!

You attacked the integrity of this Forum! What basis do you have for this.
Have your posts been edited? Deleted etc? Has everyone been allowed to have an opinion? You state that intelligent discussion is not possible here, what basis do you have for this.

Do you propose anyone with an opinion that opposes yours is muted? Because that bucko, is not going to happen! Posters Red or Blue are allowed opinions equally and are pulled up equally for bad behavior.

If you see no merit in the forum, then I would ask you to leave! if you wish to contribute constructively then I would ask you continue politely. If that makes a dictator than call me Mussolini!!

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by MADDER

Given that, as I've had to point out, the original post in this thread was grossly misinformed in more ways than one it was no more than bait which a heap of us took, hook, line and sinker.

I request the thread be closed due to the fact it was doomed from the start. I also suggest that anybody that even thinks of dropping a post like this again think twice and do a bit of research, or at least ask some questions rather than stating rubbish as fact.

Threads like this just end up as pain and hurt for everyone.

Clear, concise, to the point and maybe just maybe your wish will come true.

[fast66]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think the majority of Ford based respondants have been remarkebly balanced and have constructed their arguements backed with factual evidence rather than personal opinion...

Fair enough. And for the record, v4man, you are not one of the ones I was refering to, however:

Originally Posted by quasi

A vehicle that doesn't wear a Holden badge......sounds like a bargain to me.

This is.
Nothing wrong with that, it's an OPINION. We just need to be able to see through the blue haze!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

AFF prides itself on an open minded and welcoming outlook. Diverse viewpoints are given every opportunity and peoples rights to those opinions are protected.

Absolutely. Just dont ever disagree with red.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Absolutely. Just dont ever disagree with red.

Got it in one buddy.. :hihi: or at least a few will agree with you!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Got it in one buddy.. :hihi: or at least a few will agree with you!

Lol, very agreeable of you mate :evil_laug

[VZSS250]

I have been enjoying this debate and there has been some really informative posts. Biased posts are generally easy to identify and are to be expected and ignored.

But, at the moment I'm not convinced that the six-speed auto is reason enough for people to miss out on the massive discounting being offered by Holden at the moment, both at the retail price level and the on road price level.

The VZ SSZ is fully optioned and packed with great gear. It offers $6000 more value than the previous VZ SS which was already a competitive package compared to the BA XR8. For those of us that salivate at the thought of driving either car, the value provided by the VZ SSZ is too hard to ignore when it comes time to hand over the dosh.

Lets not forget that the VE SS gets the same six speed auto next year and is likely to mutilate the BF on the market as the VT SS II did to the AU XR8. Ford will enter the discount war in the face of this competition, and is cheating its loyal customers by delaying.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

I have been enjoying this debate and there has been some really informative posts. Biased posts are generally easy to identify and are to be expected and ignored.

But, at the moment I'm not convinced that the six-speed auto is reason enough for people to miss out on the massive discounting being offered by Holden at the moment, both at the retail price level and the on road price level.

The VZ SSZ is fully optioned and packed with great gear. It offers $6000 more value than the previous VZ SS which was already a competitive package compared to the BA XR8. For those of us that salivate at the thought of driving either car, the value provided by the VZ SSZ is too hard to ignore when it comes time to hand over the dosh.

Lets not forget that the VE SS gets the same six speed auto next year and is likely to mutilate the BF on the market as the VT SS II did to the AU XR8. Ford will enter the discount war in the face of this competition, and is cheating its loyal customers by delaying.

Well i hope theres a mutilating going to occur, its too early to tell, but you got big brass ones saying that on a ford forum lol :1syellow1

[fast66]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Not harsh in the slightest! Almost restrained!

You attacked the integrity of this Forum! What basis do you have for this.
Have your posts been edited? Deleted etc? Has everyone been allowed to have an opinion? You state that intelligent discussion is not possible here, what basis do you have for this.

Do you propose anyone with an opinion that opposes yours is muted? Because that bucko, is not going to happen! Posters Red or Blue are allowed opinions equally and are pulled up equally for bad behavior.

If you see no merit in the forum, then I would ask you to leave! if you wish to contribute constructively then I would ask you continue politely. If that makes a dictator than call me Mussolini!!

Red, chill out! My basis for saying intelliegent discussion is UNLIKELY, is because as I've said, MOST people on this forum are biased to the blue side, people like VZSS250 and SSBUB are baised to the red side. Both sides are guilty of not researching the other side sufficiently, and as such discussions are flawed. Simple fact. If me stating this is attacking the integrity of the forum, you are seriously misguided.
I do see merrit in this forum, however when we get pointless arguements for 6 or seven pages over one brand or the other between people who are never going to alter their opionions, one has to question point.
And no, I dont think that anybody with an opion different to mine should be muted, but your wrist slapping of mine shows YOU do.
At no stage in this discussion have I attacked, insulted or even disagreed with any point anyone has made however you seem to have taken personal offence for some reason.
You keep talking about my opinion, and ask if I think everyone with a differing one should be muted? I don't know where you get that from, and by suggesting it, you are attempting to put words in my mouth and spin my post in a different direction.
For the record, show me where Ive stated my opinion on this topic. Im actaully in the process of doing some research, before I make up my mind one way or the other.

[WASP]

Play nice please as this thread is going nowhere FAST!

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by fast66

For the record, show me where Ive stated my opinion on this topic. Im actaully in the process of doing some research, before I make up my mind one way or the other.

Originally Posted by fast66

Perhaps there is a forum that is not biased .......[addtional insults removed]....... because it's clearly not here.

Nuff said!

[genebaby]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

Lets not forget that the VE SS gets the same six speed auto next year and is likely to mutilate the BF on the market as the VT SS II did to the AU XR8. Ford will enter the discount war in the face of this competition, and is cheating its loyal customers by delaying.

I don't think Holden are putting the ZF in the VE. Isn't it just the six speed version of the current box?

[KEV EB XR8]

"Mussolini" not a good reference......

History shows that Mussolini was taken down by his own side

We wouldn't do that to you "Red"

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Just wait for run out models and marathon sales. Prices always come down.

Yeah - exactly. And they wonder why resale is so bad. I'm trying to sell an AUIII ute (02 SE model) with 40,000km on the clock for $16+k and am having no luck because the BA XL utes are selling used for not alot more. Mine is as straight as you could get and has never been used for work but I still can't move it..!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

I have been enjoying this debate and there has been some really informative posts. Biased posts are generally easy to identify and are to be expected and ignored.

But, at the moment I'm not convinced that the six-speed auto is reason enough for people to miss out on the massive discounting being offered by Holden at the moment, both at the retail price level and the on road price level.

The VZ SSZ is fully optioned and packed with great gear. It offers $6000 more value than the previous VZ SS which was already a competitive package compared to the BA XR8. For those of us that salivate at the thought of driving either car, the value provided by the VZ SSZ is too hard to ignore when it comes time to hand over the dosh.

Lets not forget that the VE SS gets the same six speed auto next year and is likely to mutilate the BF on the market as the VT SS II did to the AU XR8. Ford will enter the discount war in the face of this competition, and is cheating its loyal customers by delaying.

You might save a few grand buying an SSZ but the resale will be so poor your whole discount goes out the window when it comes time to sell, Holden are just shooting themselves in the foot as they are so desperate to sell cars at the moment they are gambling their future resale values. Ford learnt their lesson discounting the AU are are not prepared to do it again. They would rather sell cars at a higher price and make bigger profits then discount the hell out of them to get sales numbers up only to have fleet sales deteriorate in the future due to poor resale.

As for VE it is going to be a big jump in price, Holden overspent on a platform they now have a lot less production numbers to make the money back on now that GM have put the platform on hold. They are in a bit of trouble, thats the reason they are using some many parts from overseas, they need to dramatically reduce costs so that they don't price themselves so far out of the market. Holden means a great deal to Australia, except when they overspend and need to go overseas to save cost.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by aualright

Yeah - exactly. And they wonder why resale is so bad. I'm trying to sell an AUIII ute (02 SE model) with 40,000km on the clock for $16+k and am having no luck because the BA XL utes are selling used for not alot more. Mine is as straight as you could get and has never been used for work but I still can't move it..!!

The market is flooded, so many people are buying new cars that their are now so many used cars out there in yards. All makes and models are suffering.

[XA-Coupe]

I can't see this thread lasting the distance ..... but in a bout of morbid curiosity..... it can stay for the moment................

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

'No offence dude, but you must be going for the trifecta in the dumbest arguements anyones ever heard.'
Then you run away with it whilst us reasonable people laugh and think that those of your ilk must be jealous of ford.
. Especially when the 5.4 has superior torque that is also delivered a lot sooner than a rattling, slapping, pushrodded, oil drinking, toyota sounding hunk of junk coupled to a 1981 3 speed valve bodied auto with a lock up torque converter.'

Yeah, real balanced argument there :hihi:

They're not my words, i did say majority however i believe the point he was making to be fair, even if the delivery was firm....

[MADDER]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

I can't see this thread lasting the distance ..... but in a bout of morbid curiosity..... it can stay for the moment................

Strangely fascinating, ain't it?! I too am waiting to see the shape of the stuff that hits the fan, but for now I'm not sure what it's devolving into.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

I have been enjoying this debate and there has been some really informative posts. Biased posts are generally easy to identify and are to be expected and ignored.

But, at the moment I'm not convinced that the six-speed auto is reason enough for people to miss out on the massive discounting being offered by Holden at the moment, both at the retail price level and the on road price level.

The VZ SSZ is fully optioned and packed with great gear. It offers $6000 more value than the previous VZ SS which was already a competitive package compared to the BA XR8. For those of us that salivate at the thought of driving either car, the value provided by the VZ SSZ is too hard to ignore when it comes time to hand over the dosh.

Lets not forget that the VE SS gets the same six speed auto next year and is likely to mutilate the BF on the market as the VT SS II did to the AU XR8. Ford will enter the discount war in the face of this competition, and is cheating its loyal customers by delaying.

Philisophically i see the Ford V Holden or XR8 V SS debate as similar to politics and the respective major parties.
You'll allways get staunch supporters of both Brands (or parties), these people wont change brand for anything, these people represent up-to 85% of the population, on the other hand the swinging consumer (or voter) is what determines who sells the most vehicles (or wins).
Id guess that the "swinging" consumer represents about 15% of total sales (or votes)....
You'll need more than price alone to capture the imagination of the swinger buyer... especially when it isn't that great a difference because none of us know what each Ford Dealer are prepared to discount to to hold a sale because we're debating price on List value, especially when the BF offers considerable benefits to off-set $$$...

The other point id like to make is you DONT discount a premium product when its clearly better than its opposition, people will pay a slight premium for quality and point of difference.

[SunDrifter]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

I have been enjoying this debate and there has been some really informative posts. Biased posts are generally easy to identify and are to be expected and ignored.

But, at the moment I'm not convinced that the six-speed auto is reason enough for people to miss out on the massive discounting being offered by Holden at the moment, both at the retail price level and the on road price level.

The VZ SSZ is fully optioned and packed with great gear. It offers $6000 more value than the previous VZ SS which was already a competitive package compared to the BA XR8. For those of us that salivate at the thought of driving either car, the value provided by the VZ SSZ is too hard to ignore when it comes time to hand over the dosh.

Lets not forget that the VE SS gets the same six speed auto next year and is likely to mutilate the BF on the market as the VT SS II did to the AU XR8. Ford will enter the discount war in the face of this competition, and is cheating its loyal customers by delaying.

Good grief man, did you not read my earlier post, when i mentioned that i bought my XR6 with extras on road for the same price as a storm ute on road despite a $4500 sticker price difference?

Forget the damn sticker price, judge a car on merits.

Please show me a credible source of information that states that the ZF 6speed auto is going into the VE SS? Because thats contrary to anything that i've read/heard.

[fast66]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast66
Perhaps there is a forum that is not biased .......[addtional insults removed]....... because it's clearly not here.

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Nuff said!

Really, If you look back, the so called "additional insults" are as follows:

Originally Posted by fast66

Perhaps there is a forum that is not biased.....one way or the other where comparisons can be made without patriotic emotion taking over logical and informed discussion...... because it is clearly not here.

Again Red, you are trying to put words in my mouth to create misinformtion. What was actually written could hardly be considered an insult.
As a moderator you should be using quotes accurately, not to attempt to defend your position by modifing them.
As I've said to you via PM previously, in no way do I want to argue with you or undermine you, you have the ultimate power with your "banning stick" as Sundrifer likes to refer to it, but please, be objective.

[VZSS250]

If Holden's discounting hits the second hand market, the flooding will spread to second hand examples of XR8s, which will have to compete with cheap second hand SSs. I think there are more "swinging" buyers than we think and those swinging buyers will not pay thousands more just for a badge...they want substance and value. Putting aside bias, the two cars are well built and great products and price is therefore a deciding factor.

I'll have to get a reference for my claim that the VE will get the ZF six speed auto. When I get home I'll find the mag that has reported it. So stay tuned.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

If Holden's discounting hits the second hand market, the flooding will spread to second hand examples of XR8s,

And? were talking New car sales aren't we?

Originally Posted by VZSS250

I think there are more "swinging" buyers than we think and those swinging buyers will not pay thousands more just for a badge...they want substance and value.

I agree, everyones said all along the XR8 is a better car and buyers get "substance and value" for all the reasons that have been given, weather they pay a little or allot more comes down to the individuals ability to negotiate a deal with their Ford dealer..

Originally Posted by VZSS250

I'll have to get a reference for my claim that the VE will get the ZF six speed auto. When I get home I'll find the mag that has reported it. So stay tuned.

Please no more "magazine" truths....

wow what an interesting read.

Funnily enough for me it was a toss up between an SS and the typhoon when i was looking at my car, price difference was huge. I could have driven away in an SS with leather, climate, 6speed for 42k. Typhoon was 74k.

SS was a very nice car, but its also noteble older in its design. Too much of mutton dressed as lamb. Brakes were appualing, was my only real gripe with it. Also the lack of torque, i dont beleive they are faster than an XR8 in a straight line, not by much anyway. Even motor has the XR8 doing a 13.9, vs a 14 for the SS.

The SS also has the rear suspension out of a 1970 austin maxi, its archaic, yet it seems to do ok on the track. But there is just no advancement. I have seen too much examlpes of holdens, just falling to bits.
My mates VXII Anniversary clubby is a prime example- Piston slap, electrics problems (brake lights dont even go unless you shake the loom!) and the after sales service is well, beyond poor.
I always have a GT loan car sitting there for me when my car goes back, and even with an HSV your lucky to get an astra. I found this another big selling point with the initial purchase, which i would gladly pay for the extra peace of mind.
I think overall both VZ and the BF's do represent good value for money, and if you pay sticker price (unless its an HSV/ FPV) ur an idiot.


I think what the SS-V (which is bloody lame IMO) does is show australians are still obsessed with LTD badges, and just extra stickers. Why couldnt they just put the extras on an SS and have the whole range upgraded? Putting a Z on the end cheapens it, and what the hell does it stand for?

But as has been said, people will by what the hell they want, and thats not going to change. And ford seem to be winning this war atm.

Long live the rivalry though, i thrive on this.

Cheers

[stang65]

I have never read so much entertaining dribble in my life,
To the Mods I take my hat off your patience in not closing this thread is to be admired and just go`s to show that not all forums are run by gestapo.

[KEV EB XR8]

I havent got the knowlegde of some of these blokes , and the off topic statistics and technical info has enlightened me, "BUT" IF YOU REMEMBER holden did this before with the HQ platform that spanned the decade and some, Tired and revamped 186ci,179ci,202ci,253ci,308ci, range of motors.

"DEJAVU", DIFFERENT DECADE, SAME PLATFORM ,SAME MONEY, Dosent it worry you that you are paying only $1300 less for a VN series update? :monkes:

[fast66]

Originally Posted by KEV EB XR8

I havent got the knowlegde of some of these blokes , and the off topic statistics and technical info has enlightened me, "BUT" IF YOU REMEMBER holden did this before with the HQ platform that spanned the decade and some, Tired and revamped 186ci,179ci,202ci,253ci,308ci, range of motors.

"DEJAVU", DIFFERENT DECADE, SAME PLATFORM ,SAME MONEY, Dosent it worry you that you are paying only $1300 less for a VN series update? :monkes:

I guess it could also then be looked at as saying your paying $1300 more for a EA update??

[KEV EB XR8]

Did a bit of homework on that before posting, AU platform has some resembalance but not an EA . major technical advances to chassi etc not just a cosmetic facelift . any synergy's the AU has with the BA were technically futuristic.