Are Fpv/Tickfords Overated

Originally Posted by sbutler

Overated compaired to what??
The're are among the best made in Australia, & I think rank somwere in the top ten when compaired with the current crop of performance cars here & overseas, & probably the top 2 in there price range. The only competitor here is HSV & there pretty close in that market segment..

As for compairing them to the old school car, there no contest, the current cars would murder the old ones in every area!

Spot on Butler it took FPV though to do it.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Big statement youve made there,sure in creature comforts,road noise and refinement,but in BFYB performance and driver experience I dont think so..

BFYB????

Dude no offence but you can pay as much as $30K-$40K for a 'restorer' aka rust bucket.

I really don't think BFYB should be brought into it because again the old school factory performance would be slaughtered, and yes mainly because of the little things like the additional comforts now standard.

As for driver experience it really depends on the experience you want, some want to cruise in a classic while others prefer to throw a car into corners and know it's going to steer, or hit the anchors and actually stop.

Bad example dude sorry. :

[Stav]

Hmm are these cars overrated ? Depends how much you like it , how much you paid for it and how many times you have to fix it. Ultimately it is a personal choice and voicing that view will cause conflict. I think my wallet will be talking for me next time I buy a car and I am not totally convinced that these brands are the ultimate driving machine...they dont have an FPV typhoon station wagon or gt station wagon .This a shortfall which I cant be expected to make by modding the crap out of a wagon to make it go ok cause ford could not.

[The Mighty Red]

Originally Posted by useless

Hmm are these cars overrated ? Depends how much you like it , how much you paid for it and how many times you have to fix it. Ultimately it is a personal choice and voicing that view will cause conflict. I think my wallet will be talking for me next time I buy a car and I am not totally convinced that these brands are the ultimate driving machine...they dont have an FPV typhoon station wagon or gt station wagon .This a shortfall which I cant be expected to make by modding the crap out of a wagon to make it go ok cause ford could not.

c'mon useless , we all know you will modding the crap out of a Turbo territory

[flappist]

Is Jim Beam/Jack Daniels/Bundy/Chivas over rated, you can get just as drunk on a flagon.....

[FalconXR6]

There's absolutely no way that Tickford's are overratted. If anything, they are underratted. EBII-AUIII Tickfords are absolutely brilliant machines. Especially for the money you pay for them.

FPV's overratted??? Hmmmm. Very tough question. I don't think they are overall, but the V8's could certainly use a dollop more grunt to boost their credibility. Then again, the lack of a power upgrade is possibly the biggest reason as to why their resale is higher than an HSV's. Boss V8 FPV's are 290. Have been for ages. HSV V8's range from 260, 285, 297, 300, 307 in basically the same time period. Also, take a look at the GTS. Brand spanker, a GTS would command nearly 100K on road. You can get a brand spanker VE for a tad over 85K now. Instant 30K depreciation for a loyal (and you would have to be loyal to fork out for a GTS) buyer. Tsk tsk.

But no. Neither are overatted. I think HSV's are well and truly overatted. Especially VN-VS Clubsports.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Our Blue XR6

c'mon useless , we all know you will modding the crap out of a Turbo territory

Hehhe..probably right.. :togo:

[Bucknaked]

I think they are only over rated if you don't own one.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

BFYB????

Dude no offence but you can pay as much as $30K-$40K for a 'restorer' aka rust bucket.

I really don't think BFYB should be brought into it because again the old school factory performance would be slaughtered, and yes mainly because of the little things like the additional comforts now standard.

As for driver experience it really depends on the experience you want, some want to cruise in a classic while others prefer to throw a car into corners and know it's going to steer, or hit the anchors and actually stop.

Bad example dude sorry. :

Ok,thats what you think,I can tell you I spend less on my rust bucket than a new tickford/fpv,and I bet theres not many here that could run a low 11 sec quarter and do a 1.52 at eastern creek and a 112 at wakfield park.
and the new one Im building will be significantly faster,sorry it wont get slaughtered,drum brake rears and all..

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I think they are only over rated if you don't own one.

That's about sums it up. it:

[Falc'man]

They are what they are, you either love'm or you don't.

Brand loyalty may influence what we think. And some people may see them as good value. Some people will tell you they just look tough and sound awesome.

When or if you I go out to buy one, its because of all of the above.

I reckon FPV's have aroused passion in most of us Ford lovers, and that speaks volumes.

We tend to forget most of the 80's and 90's when Holden was smashing Ford in the bragging rights... Alot has changed. Thank you Tickford/FPV.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Ok,thats what you think,I can tell you I spend less on my rust bucket than a new tickford/fpv,and I bet theres not many here that could run a low 11 sec quarter and do a 1.52 at eastern creek and a 112 at wakfield park.
and the new one Im building will be significantly faster,sorry it wont get slaughtered,drum brake rears and all..

Ye but you are talking about a heavily modified car bud, if I spent the same money on the Typhoon as you have on the XA I'd probably be doing a 10 or less quarter as for Eastern I don't know what a good time is their but I'm sure I'd shave a few seconds off that too. Guys are doing 11's in the BA/BF with as little as $3K, how much did you spend on engine/trans/diff??

We are basically talking here out of the box and I think this is where alot of people have gone slightly off track, out of the box in a GS you would do what, high 15 maybe low 16, stock standard I mean, and as for Eastern Creek you would be somewhere in the low to mid 2's.

I'm sure your car is great now that you have built it the way you want it, but it isn't stock standard anymore and that is what I thought this was all about, an out of the box off the showroom floor experience.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Ye but you are talking about a heavily modified car bud, if I spent the same money on the Typhoon as you have on the XA I'd probably be doing a 10 or less quarter as for Eastern I don't know what a good time is their but I'm sure I'd shave a few seconds off that too. Guys are doing 11's in the BA/BF with as little as $3K,

Correct and you could still drive it around Australia with the 2.78 factory diff gears, and a 10.5 trip fuel average.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

I think HSV's are well and truly overatted.

How you figure that one? HSV is the Holden equivalent of FPV.

Practically the same thing with a different badge and cosmetics with similar performance.

Down to personal taste in the long run.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Ye but you are talking about a heavily modified car bud, if I spent the same money on the Typhoon as you have on the XA I'd probably be doing a 10 or less quarter as for Eastern I don't know what a good time is their but I'm sure I'd shave a few seconds off that too. Guys are doing 11's in the BA/BF with as little as $3K, how much did you spend on engine/trans/diff??

We are basically talking here out of the box and I think this is where alot of people have gone slightly off track, out of the box in a GS you would do what, high 15 maybe low 16, stock standard I mean, and as for Eastern Creek you would be somewhere in the low to mid 2's.

I'm sure your car is great now that you have built it the way you want it, but it isn't stock standard anymore and that is what I thought this was all about, an out of the box off the showroom floor experience.

Of course it was modded if it was stock I wouldnt have the slightest interest in it,im not a collector,and the new one wont even have a factory engine,but the whole thing including purchase of the new car will still be under 35k.
A new GTP or F6 is how much?
Thats where BFYB comes from.
Now dont get me wrong,Im not knocking the FPV's,I wouldnt knock one back,they are a great car but its not where my interest lays thats all,I just get my back up a bit when people knock the old muscle when they havent seen what a good well sorted one will do.
As a perspective of times,you will be killing some very exotic sports cars at those lap times,and I have raced against some turbo 6's,how modded they were I cant say though,just dont think because a car is old tech it cant handle..

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

How you figure that one? HSV is the Holden equivalent of FPV.

Practically the same thing with a different badge and cosmetics with similar performance.

Down to personal taste in the long run.

Perhaps what I should have said was, that HSV's are well and truly overatted by their owners.

Ever had a chat with a VN-VS Clubsport owner? Ever offered them a freindly race? They usually laugh and carry on and claim that there is no way an XR6 Falcon would keep up with their Clubsport. Until you conduct said friendly race and talk to them about it afterwards. Most are gutted, as they didn't think that there was much out there that would touch their HSV, let alone a lowly XR6.

[TS50]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

Perhaps what I should have said was, that HSV's are well and truly overatted by their owners.

Ever had a chat with a VN-VS Clubsport owner? Ever offered them a freindly race? They usually laugh and carry on and claim that there is no way an XR6 Falcon would keep up with their Clubsport. Until you conduct said friendly race and talk to them about it afterwards. Most are gutted, as they didn't think that there was much out there that would touch their HSV, let alone a lowly XR6.

you are just cruel doing that to a poor HSV owner

[MAFIA]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Just wondering if people think that FPV's and Tickfords are overrated....when compared to old school GT's etc....and also value for money in relation to other cars in the ford stable eg. XR8/6T etc!!!

Nah FPV/TICKFORD are not overrated but compare to HSV they are not only overrated but overdone too. :

[CATFORD]

HSV are alot closer to what the customer wants than FPV are....and if you cant see that....then you are a typical Tickford/FPV owner.....just have a look at the production series in Australia over the past few years when BMW's, SUBARU's, TOYOTA ,HSV's and that fantastic's packages from FPV/T-series...how many races has an FPV's or T-Series won......very few actually you could probably count them on 1 hand for the past 8 years or so.....why...because they were missing the "PERFORMANCE" part out of "FORD PERFORMANCE VEHICLES"

This is my point.....you need the mumbo to back up the badge....it's what a GT deserve's.....doesn't it!!!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

HSV are alot closer to what the customer wants than FPV are....and if you cant see that....then you are a typical Tickford/FPV owner.....just have a look at the production series in Australia over the past few years when BMW's, SUBARU's, TOYOTA ,HSV's and that fantastic's packages from FPV/T-series...how many races has an FPV's or T-Series won......very few actually you could probably count them on 1 hand for the past 8 years or so.....why...because they were missing the "PERFORMANCE" part out of "FORD PERFORMANCE VEHICLES"

Any ideas then as to why they're selling like hotcakes???? Infact a few months ago they outsold HSV....

[CATFORD]

Good on them....maybe it was the fact that most HSV owners new there was a brand new model coming out....see how there sales go over the next 12 mths.....especially the GT and GT-P!!!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Good on them....maybe it was the fact that most HSV owners new there was a brand new model coming out....see how there sales go over the next 12 mths.....especially the GT and GT-P!!!

No, please, enlighten us, seeing FPV's sales have steadily and consistantly grown over the past 3 years, tell exactly why that is if they're not giving the customer what they want?

[CATFORD]

Ok.....sales have increase hey really explain this then....

CARSALES
http://www.fcai.com.au/sales.php/2006/12/sales.html


SEGMENTED ( PERFORMANCE, SUV, 4X4 etc )
http://www.fcai.com.au/sales.php/200...mentation.html

[Cosmo Kramer]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

No, please, enlighten us, seeing FPV's sales have steadily and consistantly grown over the past 3 years, tell exactly why that is if they're not giving the customer what they want?

I think you'll find that the only growth in FPV at the moment is with the F6. The sale of V8 sedans is a different story.
First 6 months of GT/GT-P's life (2003) - average of 141 vehicles per month.
Following 21 months for GT/GT-P - average of 97 vehicles per month.
First half of 2006 for GT/GT-P - average of 89 vehicles per month.
(source - fpv.com.au and Blueprint)

I know a couple of ex FPV V8 owners now driving VE HSVs because when it came time to update, the FPV V8 had nothing really extra to offer them over their current FPV.

Many FPV V8 owners who are due for replacement vehicles over the next 12 months, and are not prepared to wait for Orion, will face the same dilemma.

[FalconXR6]

I'm very interested by CATFORD's comments.

Why would you say that HSV are giving their owners / buyers what they want better than FPV?

Take a look at the letters published by Wheels and Motor over the past 12 months. There are an absolute shedload of owners / buyers out there who are quite upset and unhappy that their cars are outdated within 3 months, due to the never ending power increases that HSV introduce. In 3+ years, HSV's have gone from 250, 255, 260, 285, 297, 300 and now 307. ****, you can get hold of a new "270" killowatt SS for 45K which outperforms all HSV's from just 3 years ago!!! Not only that, but you can buy a brand new VE GTS for around 85K. They were 100K on road when new! This is an instant 20K depreciation for loyal (and you would have to be bloody loyal to pay 100K for a GTS) customers. Plenty of HSV owners / buyers are unhappy and NOT giving owners what they want.

Resale value is proof of this.

Sales figures are proof of this.

Magazine write-ups are proof of this.

Owner / Buyer opinions and comments are proof of this.

HSV's were, reportedly, a better bet as a track weapon than the equivalent HSV, which may have given some owners / buyers what they wanted. While the FPV's were regarded as a better day to day proposition, which gives the FPV owners / buyers what they want.

Take a look at the HSV lap times now. They are slower than before.

Take a look at which car is now regarded as line ball or slightly better than the FPV's as a better day to day proposition.

Clearly HSV have moved towards building their cars with day to day driving in mind first. Providing the "total performace package". Funnily enough, this was and is FPV's philosiphy and the reason it is selling more vehicles that HSV's.

Now, it seems, that HSV has done a backflip are now giving their customers what they want according to market research. Which is what FPV have been offering for quite some time now.

So what is it, exactly, that FPV aren't offering their customers that their customer want???

[CATFORD]

"There are an absolute shedload of owners / buyers out there who are quite upset and unhappy that their cars are outdated within 3 months, due to the never ending power increases that HSV introduce. In 3+ years, HSV's have gone from 250, 255, 260, 285, 297, 300 and now 307. ****, you can get hold of a new "270" killowatt SS for 45K which outperforms all HSV's from just 3 years ago!!!"



So your telling me HSV shouldn't increase power outputs from model to model....and that they should do what FPV have done with no power upgrades for the GT since 2003.....what a performance company....also they just do a few minor facelifts here and there.....extra stickers here and there.....ohhhh....put a six speed manual in....( which HSV/Holden have had for years mind you ).....you have got to be kidding at least HSV are trying to improve there products performance....Ford have sat on the success of the BA for so long ( going on 4 frigging years )....and now with the new Holden VE range ......it is about to get slaughtered in the sales department which could lead to the end of Ford Australia.....it all will rest on the Orion.....also the only reason FPV's have better resale value is because they dont sell as many vehicles as HSV.........Ford and FPV need to pull there finger out.....and soon.....thank got we have the Turbo six to save us....god that hurts to say that!!!!

[TS50]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

"There are an absolute shedload of owners / buyers out there who are quite upset and unhappy that their cars are outdated within 3 months, due to the never ending power increases that HSV introduce. In 3+ years, HSV's have gone from 250, 255, 260, 285, 297, 300 and now 307. ****, you can get hold of a new "270" killowatt SS for 45K which outperforms all HSV's from just 3 years ago!!!"



So your telling me HSV shouldn't increase power outputs from model to model....and that they should do what FPV have done with no power upgrades for the GT since 2003.....what a performance company....also they just do a few minor facelifts here and there.....extra stickers here and there.....ohhhh....put a six speed manual in....( which HSV/Holden have had for years mind you ).....you have got to be kidding at least HSV are trying to improve there products performance....Ford have sat on the success of the BA for so long ( going on 4 frigging years )....and now with the new Holden VE range ......it is about to get slaughtered in the sales department which could lead to the end of Ford Australia.....it all will rest on the Orion.....also the only reason FPV's have better resale value is because they dont sell as many vehicles as HSV.........Ford and FPV need to pull there finger out.....and soon.....thank got we have the Turbo six to save us....god that hurts to say that!!!!

I know what you are saying, a bit of an increase is necessary, but not to the extent that HSV have done it and crucified anyone that bought their vehicle 3 months earlier. You lose so much as soon as you buy a new vehicle, you dont need to lose more by the manufacuture making your car so obsolete straight away. You will find people more willing to buy a s/h 2004 BA GT, than a 2004 VZ Clubsport. Because the BA GT is still up there with the current GT, whereas the VZ is almost blown away by a standard VE crummydore.

I know someone that bought a 2002 HSV GTO coupe for a bit over a $100k, within 2 years he went to sell, value was way under $50k, lost approx 60% of his vehicle in under 2 years, and why? because the latest base HSV model had basically the same power etc as his coupe. That hurt him, and he has not, nor will he, buy another HSV vehcile. This was not his first HSV,it was his 7th, all new. So they lost a customer. That is talking with your feet and wallet.

[SpoolMan]

The initial question is are FPV/ Tickfords overrated.
The thread is losing its way, time to move along forget about HSV vs FPV.

[CATFORD]

Originally Posted by TS50

I know what you are saying, a bit of an increase is necessary, but not to the extent that HSV have done it and crucified anyone that bought their vehicle 3 months earlier. You lose so much as soon as you buy a new vehicle, you dont need to lose more by the manufacuture making your car so obsolete straight away. You will find people more willing to buy a s/h 2004 BA GT, than a 2004 VZ Clubsport. Because the BA GT is still up there with the current GT, whereas the VZ is almost blown away by a standard VE crummydore.

I know someone that bought a 2002 HSV GTO coupe for a bit over a $100k, within 2 years he went to sell, value was way under $50k, lost approx 60% of his vehicle in under 2 years, and why? because the latest base HSV model had basically the same power etc as his coupe. That hurt him, and he has not, nor will he, buy another HSV vehcile. This was not his first HSV,it was his 7th, all new. So they lost a customer. That is talking with your feet and wallet.

That is rediculous these are mass produced cars.....you cant expect a company to sit on it's butt....just so the customers who have brought cars can have better resale value....that is obsurd....if FPV or HSV didnt improve there cars why would you care about resale value....as chances are you wouldn't trade it in as the lastest offerings from your brand have not changed seriously....if FPV supporters carn't see FPV have done nothing...than maybe you guys are to ONE EYED.....Also HSV's do not lose value just becasue the new model comes out with more kw's.....its the fact they sell more and have more models to sell.........anyone who buys and FPV or HSV.....surely isn't that stupid to the think which one is going to have the best market value in 3 years....they are mass produced Auzzie cars....and they have terrible market value.....in the end the Falcon is just a TAXI with options no matter if its an FPV or XT.....and Holden is a Bogan mover.....I know this Forum is a Ford one....but positve and NEGATIVE feeback about everyones beloved Ford/FPV is a good thing.....especially "negative"....as this shows areas were we can improve....and FPV and Ford need to!!!

LETS END THIS ALL.....FPV'S ARE GREATEST CARS EVER....DONE!!!

[FTE217]

LETS END THIS ALL.....FPV'S ARE GREATEST CARS EVER....DONE!!![/QUOTE]

Oh thank god for that , is it over :