Commodore to be built overseas after 2014

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by davway

Perhaps you should actually read what you have written - seems you dont even know what you say yourself.



The WAGON is the Adventra.
The Cross 6 and 8 are the UTES.
NONE of them are SUV's in any sense, shape or form.

Oh, and because its on YouTube - it IS correct - it came from HOLDEN themselves, who know a crap load more about it than you obviously do.

Convenient you picked up on my little stuff up with what body shape it was, but not on the name.

Now have you got the promo you-tube link for the cross 6/8? Because everything you see on you-tube has to be fact.

[Road Games]

I'd swear the Kluger's i have driven were front wheel drive as well ?

[39ClevoUte]

I live in a street where most people have fairly new cars and I would say a good cross section of what I see on the road. There are 12 houses: There are about 2 cars per household average. There is probably 7 Toyotas mainly Landcruisers and Prados and hilux types, 2 falcons, 1 territorry, 1 subaru, an old commadore, 1 barina, 1 mitza, 1 pajero, 1 Hot rod (hehe), 1 puegeot, 1 Vw. and the rest all look the same to me.
Australia has made up its mind, based on this 80% of the population don't buy Aus Ford or Holden. Doesn't mean they can't exist, but it will be tough.
List the newish cars in your street.....

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That was quite strangely administered by Ford Canada...

Being part of the old British Empire and the Commonwealth, Ford Canada was probably thought to be a better cultural fit for Australia and better positioned to understand what was needed in Australia and how to make it work.

Australia was also probably seen as to far away and to small a market for the head office to be bothered dealing with directly.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by XR6menace

I'd swear the Kluger's i have driven were front wheel drive as well ?

Comes in both fwd and awd versions

[Road Games]

Ah ha thanks mate i thought i was going mad

[jpd80]

What people have to understand is that Holden's business plan is completely different to For Australia,
while that might sound strange it is none the less true as you look at the contrast in local products:

- Holden builds Commodore, Sport Wagon, Ute and Cruze but elects to import Captiva.
- Ford builds Falcon sedan, (but no S/W), Ute and Territory but elects to import Focus and Mondeo...

That selection of product ensures both some overlap but clearly differences in perceived costs
associated with the various products as well as strategic importance going forward.

[gazza6]

Carsales:Holden loses another Commodore export deal words - Joshua Dowling
Middle East joins Brazil and stops importing Australia’s top-selling car

The strong Australian dollar has claimed another trade deal. Exports of the Holden Commodore to the Middle East have stopped just months after shipments to Brazil ceased.

Both export deals were small – Brazil was forecast to take 600 or so Commodores each year and the Middle East only took 150 cars last year – but they are symbolic of the dilemma facing Holden and its Australian manufacturing operations.

The car maker was hoping to export its way to a brighter future and better viability but the strong Australian dollar – which has risen 30 per cent since the recent export deals were announced – have made the trade deals uncompetitive and unprofitable.

In the meantime, Holden will continue to export the Caprice limousine to the Middle East – the same car it is trying to sell to the US as a police car – because it is protected somewhat by a higher retail price and profit margin.

Holden sold about 4000 Caprices in the Middle East last year – twice as many as were sold locally in the same period, but still only a fraction of the Caprice’s Middle East sales peak of 12,000 sales in the mid-2000s.

If Holden is struggling for the Commodore to make a business case then it is likely that Toyota, Australia’s biggest vehicle exporter, is also under financial strain.

More than two-thirds of the Camry sedans made at Toyota Australia’s factory in Altona – between 55,000 and 92,000 cars each year – are shipped to the Middle East.

The president and managing director of General Motors’ Middle East Operations, John Stadwick, said the remaining stock of Commodores (sold as a Lumina there) would not be replaced in the new year – and he expected buyers would instead opt for the new Malibu mid-size sedan or the Camaro SS coupe.

“We’re not selling the Lumina here in 2012,” Stadwick said. “We have the all-new Malibu and we also have the Camaro. The plan of record for a while now has been to discontinue the Lumina and go with the Camaro and the Malibu.”

However, Stadwick said the Caprice export deal was safe for the time being.

“The Caprice is a very strong nameplate … and a very important vehicle for us. I met with Minister Carr from Australia two weeks ago here talking about the importance of the Caprice for us going forward.

“We’re monitoring the number of Caprices [we import]. We want to keep the nameplate in the market. We don’t think that the Australian dollar is going to continue at its record strength and when it comes down we can look to export more vehicles out of Holden and into the Middle East.”

The head of General Motors International Operations Tim Lee added: “Exports from Australia have really been a key piece of our portfolio here in the Middle East for a long time [since the VT Commodore in the late 1990s].

“The fundamental problem we have is your currency has strengthened to the extent that it makes the export of the vehicle far less economic. I didn’t say we’re losing money but you tell me what the Aussie dollar is going to do and we’ll tell you how many Caprices we’ll sell.”



Read the latest news and reviews on your mobile, iPhone or PDA at carsales' mobile site…

[Gobes32]

If that is true about Toyota's numbers, you have to question why they continue to manufacture in Australia when the camry is made in 3 or 4 other factories also?

[Road_Warrior]

Mmm more doom and gloom

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news-reviews-advice/results.aspx?Ns=p_DateAvailable_DateTime|1&N=2981+ 4294967281+4294967279

The president of General Motors’ International Operations, Tim Lee, says the future or the fate of the Commodore rests in the hands of the Australian Federal Government.

The outlook of the homegrown Commodore was cloudy last week after a union representing engineers claimed the next model due in 2014 would be the last – and future models would be engineered overseas.

When asked to comment on the accuracy of the leaks and the likelihood of the 2018 Commodore being transformed into a front-drive mid-sized sedan, Lee told Motoring.com.au:

“You tell me when Australia locks down their social policy on C02 … and mileage requirements, you tell me when the government decides exactly how they want to move forward in terms of working with the automotive industry, and then I can answer that question,” he said.

“We haven’t made all of our portfolio decisions out in the … 2017 2018 timeline. What we need to understand is what will be the social policy in the country of Australia. What will be the industrial policy in the country of Australia.

“When we can start locking down these external variables then we’ll be able to do our product planning in a much more robust way. So it’s very premature for any of us to conclude anything, but we sure love the Commodore.”

He said regardless of where it is engineered the next generation Commodore must be a vehicle that can be sold globally, a remark that is eerily similar to the policy adopted by Ford boss Alan Mulally.

“You have to think about all of the automotive manufacturers as global companies. What we do in Australia can’t be just only for Australia,” said Lee. “So we will continue our migration to global platforms. And we will optimize our business results in Australia based on the brand equity of Holden the marque of the Commodore.”

Commodore or not, Lee repeated Holden’s commitment to vehicle manufacturing in Australia.

“We want to design, build and sell vehicles in Australia. The Holden brand is fundamental to General Motors and has been in our stable for along time. We are very committed to Australia,” he said.

He described the leaking of internal discussions by APESMA – a union representing engineers – as “regrettable” and gave employees unnecessary angst.

“We’re in the midst of our collective bargaining with several of our unions. The leak was not a good thing. It didn’t help our business whatsoever and it put a lot of uncertainty in the minds of our people.”

In reference to that article posted above me, those export numbers are shocking. I thought MEA exports were quite substantial?

[jpd80]

Caprice PPV is a joke, when GM brings out the new Impala on the same platform as Malibu,
I'm betting they do a V8 AWD version for US poilce departments and then PPV's goose will be cooked...

[vztrt]

More Cruze and less Commodore equals less profit

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25794800191DC0

Holden says it would need to manage costs better if Commodore is outsold by Cruze

14 November 2011

By JAMES STANFORD

A LEADING Holden official says the company would need to manage its costs better if the Commodore is out-sold by the Cruze small car.

That is now a very real proposition, with Cruze trailing the Commodore by just 6387 sales to the end of October this year, despite being offered in just one (sedan) variant.

Commodore sales are down 8.9 per cent to the end of October, while large cars have dropped 25.1 per cent during the same period, according to VFACTS.

Last week, Holden launched a locally-produced hatch version of the Cruze and expects it to boost sales, although it will not say by how much.

Holden executive director of sales and marketing John Elsworth told GoAuto the company would prefer the Commodore to remain the best-selling car in its range, but is prepared for it to be knocked off by Cruze.

“I think, emotionally, we love having the Commodore as the number one selling car, but to be perfectly honest with you we are not fussy what we sell people,” he said.

“If the market keeps moving and demanding small cars, that is just the way our company has to move and change with the market.”

“It’s not me or Holden that determines it. People will vote with their wallets.”

Mr Elsworth conceded Holden makes less profit making Cruze models than Commodores.

“Yes, in terms the transaction prices, small cars are cheaper than large cars,” he said.

“It is a more profitable outcome for us to be making Commodores. It just means we have to manage our costs better.”

Mr Elsworth said Holden was well positioned to manage the changing market given it produces both small and large cars at its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

“We have Cruze and it is a pretty strong position to be in to have the number one and number five top-selling cars as of October, with both cars coming out of the one plant,” he said.

“We can move our production around to keep meeting the needs of the reshaping market.”

Asked why Australians appear to have fallen out of love with locally made large cars, Mr Elsworth said: “It’s just the changing face of the market – the market continues to reshape itself and small cars and SUVs continue to be popular, along with light commercials.”

However, Mr Elsworth did suggest a lack of LPG-fuelled vehicles from both Ford and Holden contributed to the decline.

“One of the key drivers is LPG; we haven’t had a dual-fuel LPG (Commodore) for months, Ford were out of the LPG game for quite a while and (for them) it was pretty much one in three (LPG to petrol), or something like that.

“That changes the dynamics of the market.”

Holden will introduce a single-fuel LPG system for Commodore for the first time early next year.

[Nikked]

Im praising FoA's managment right now...

-THey have copped flak for not exporting the falcon
-They have copped flack for not building focus here
-They copped it because they cut funding to V8sc teams
-They had people winge when the fairlane was dropped, along with the wagon.

Yet, even with its low numbers, FoA still havn't really been in the danger seat with the falcon. Sure, alarmist articals about falling sales have been abound, but not any dribble about needing the Government to help. GM (and GM-H) sound like the spoilt kid who has its parents to help them out of situations.

GM-H billion dollar gamble on exports has failed, and there has been reckless spending (Ie, buying V8sc teams). The Cruze was never going to make (a high) profit for the company...

Ford menwhile seem to have spent wisely...

[Bossxr8]

Caprice is soon dead. And with it that means the glacially slow selling PPV is gone too.

There is no way they could justify updating the Caprice come 2014 with such tiny volumes. The Fairlane was selling more than the Caprice is now when it was axed. Export numbers don't add much volume either.

Holden are placing their bets on the aussie dollar at 70c, thats what they plan for, being over a dollar must be absolutely slaughtering them.

[bobthebilda]

One really does have to sit down and interpret exactly what Mr Elsworth is saying when he is quoted as saying

Mr Elsworth conceded Holden makes less profit making Cruze models than Commodores.

If you have accumulated approx. $600 million in negative profits in the last 7 years of commodore making, exactly how good for the bottom line is it to make a car that makes more negative profits.

You can see how much production has been cut back in the last few months (some due to export slow down, some due to toyota strikes etc), by the last two months production figures at

http://www.fcai.com.au/sales/monthly-production-volumes

Production averaged 15000 a month for last two months. Thats only a couple thousand more than local consumption.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Caprice is soon dead. And with it that means the glacially slow selling PPV is gone too.

There is no way they could justify updating the Caprice come 2014 with such tiny volumes. The Fairlane was selling more than the Caprice is now when it was axed. Export numbers don't add much volume either.

Holden are placing their bets on the aussie dollar at 70c, thats what they plan for, being over a dollar must be absolutely slaughtering them.

Boss, they just can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong........

Edit,
Sometimes we fans are harshly critical of Ford for perceived failures and inaction
but if I was a Holden fan looking at a string of losses since before VE, I'd be worried
about the decisions that companies chiefs are making. How stable is Holden really?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

, Cruze is chewing up a lot of resources for little return...

This is just one of the reasons why Ford gave away Laser production here in the 90's. To many product lines (Falcon sedan, Ute/Van, Wagon, Fairlane, Laser hatch/sedan) and too little development resources to cover them all. Things have changed alot since then, but Holdens profits on Cruze would be slim, it would cost the same to send a Commodore down the line as it would for a Cruze.

Its amazing looking back at all the media hype surrounding the "Billion Dollar Baby" VE range and how it would allow Holden to take on the world. Seems that big spend has bitten Holden on bum now because the rest world dosn't want a big, thirsty RWD sedan, no matter how much was spent (IMO wasted) on developing it.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Caprice is soon dead. And with it that means the glacially slow selling PPV is gone too.

There is no way they could justify updating the Caprice come 2014 with such tiny volumes. The Fairlane was selling more than the Caprice is now when it was axed. Export numbers don't add much volume either.

Holden are placing their bets on the aussie dollar at 70c, thats what they plan for, being over a dollar must be absolutely slaughtering them.

I dont know about that. Ford were only selling about 100 Fairlanes a month just before it was axed. Holden is selling atleast that now plus the 4000 a year to the middle east. I'm not sure how much PPV they are selling to the states.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Its amazing looking back at all the media hype surrounding the "Billion Dollar Baby" VE range and how it would allow Holden to take on the world. Seems that big spend has bitten Holden on bum now because the rest world dosn't want a big, thirsty RWD sedan, no matter how much was spent (IMO wasted) on developing it.

In fairness a good part of that cost was upgrades to the press line...
Most of the problem was GM Nth America continually changing its mind on Zeta vehicles
and that cost Holden dearly but worse for GM, it delayed important upgrades to FWD products.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I dont know about that. Ford were only selling about 100 Fairlanes a month just before it was axed. Holden is selling atleast that now plus the 4000 a year to the middle east. I'm not sure how much PPV they are selling to the states.

mmm, I doubt the sincerity of GM Middle East, I think as soon as new Impala arrives Caprice will be gone.
Similarly in the USA, as soon as GM develops a new Impala with AWD V8, Caprice PPV is gone...

[Nikked]

delete

[ivorya]

I find it funny that 'It's all in the Govenments Hands' Lol. what a joke.

Holden have had the same options as Ford Aus but they just didn't take the blinkers away to see out-side. They have themselves to blame if the boat sinks.
I just feel sorry for the unprotected workers of this country.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ivorya

I find it funny that 'It's all in the Govenments Hands' Lol. what a joke.

Holden have had the same options as Ford Aus but they just didn't take the blinkers away to see out-side. They have themselves to blame if the boat sinks.
I just feel sorry for the unprotected workers of this country.

It's amazing how all the speculation regarding Falcon's viability is now turning to the future Commodore...
As soon as the media doesn't get the answer they want, it all turns nasty, regardless of the brand..

The longer Ford stall the Falcon decision, the more on edge Holden gets, what are they playing at?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I dont know about that. Ford were only selling about 100 Fairlanes a month just before it was axed. Holden is selling atleast that now plus the 4000 a year to the middle east. I'm not sure how much PPV they are selling to the states.

Depends on a lot of factors.

1) Interchangeability of parts between caprice and commodore and interchangeability of parts between left hand and right hand drive caprices. 4000 exports 2000 local sales a year, are not really big manufacturing numbers to repay development costs. Of course they could aim for 20,000 PPV to help defrau the costs lol. But with WM getting old in the tooth, would they want to spend future development costs on a dying car.

2) It might be a matter of ringing up a car carrier to get 8 fairlanes or caprices interstate, its slightly harder to get 350 caprices a month to the middle east. It would be quite interesting to know how Holden actually do it. A lone charter would be quite expensive, building up 5 months stock and then shipping would be self defeating. I can only assume they piggy back on the ship that takes camrys from melbourne to the middle east (well that ship might stop soon too). A load of 350 caprices and 40,000 sheep might be the way to go.

[jpd80]

I Exports are so great, then how come Holden's books are full of red ink from about 2005?
Currency shifts murder exports, it just doesn't seem to quell Holden's insatiable lust for exporting...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

One really does have to sit down and interpret exactly what Mr Elsworth is saying when he is quoted as saying



If you have accumulated approx. $600 million in negative profits in the last 7 years of commodore making, exactly how good for the bottom line is it to make a car that makes more negative profits.

You can see how much production has been cut back in the last few months (some due to export slow down, some due to toyota strikes etc), by the last two months production figures at

http://www.fcai.com.au/sales/monthly-production-volumes

Production averaged 15000 a month for last two months. Thats only a couple thousand more than local consumption.

They actually did come out and say if the their main investor (govco) doesn't keep paying, Cruze won't be profitable.

Originally Posted by jpd80

In fairness a good part of that cost was upgrades to the press line...

What you really meant to say was the media line, wasn't it?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

They actually did come out and say if the their main investor (govco) doesn't keep paying, Cruze won't be profitable.

What you really meant to say was the media line, wasn't it?

No, that's the press gang....until they turn nasty and shyte all over you...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No, that's the press gang....until they turn nasty and shyte all over you...

In all seriousness I don't know about that. It was just this 2014 story that popped out of nowhere and the media had no choice but to report it. The test will be to see how soon this story's forgotten.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I dont know about that. Ford were only selling about 100 Fairlanes a month just before it was axed. Holden is selling atleast that now plus the 4000 a year to the middle east. I'm not sure how much PPV they are selling to the states.

From what I can remember Fairlance was selling around 200-250 a month before it was axed. Caprice is at about 150.

Those numbers to the middle east will continue to drop too.

Holden keep saying they are working on a number of 70c for the aussie dollar to calculate future model plans. They are living in denial. It won't go back to 70c any time soon. Based on 70c they would be losing about 30% of an exported cars cost. I wouldn't be suprised if that wiped out their whole profit margin. Especially with PPV as its price is slashed massively over what a Caprice sells for here and its essentially a fleet price being sold to government agencies like the police.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

From what I can remember Fairlance was selling around 200-250 a month before it was axed. Caprice is at about 150.

Those numbers to the middle east will continue to drop too.

Holden keep saying they are working on a number of 70c for the aussie dollar to calculate future model plans. They are living in denial. It won't go back to 70c any time soon. Based on 70c they would be losing about 30% of an exported cars cost. I wouldn't be suprised if that wiped out their whole profit margin. Especially with PPV as its price is slashed massively over what a Caprice sells for here and its essentially a fleet price being sold to government agencies like the police.

Holden would be better off absorbing Caprice by making Commodore slightly bigger,
the Zeta Impala was to be built on a unique wheelbase mid way between the two
and if they did that it would open up a beautiful space for the Malibu to slot in below.

Originally Posted by Falc'man

In all seriousness I don't know about that. It was just this 2014 story that popped out of nowhere and the media had no choice but to report it. The test will be to see how soon this story's forgotten.

All speculation I'm afraid, I doubt there is any substance to speak of....