Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by smoo

Why can’t they bring them here regardless?

We currently have to much Sulfur and aromatics within the fuel that will foul the sensor technology well before the specification (euro6 etc) time period. Once these die, more pollution and cost to the company and you.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ivorya

We currently have to much Sulfur and aromatics within the fuel that will foul the sensor technology well before the specification (euro6 etc) time period. Once these die, more pollution and cost to the company and you.

2027 is the date for the review of the Australian standards regarding our fuel.

If the government isn't retarded they could bring that forward immediately.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ivorya

We currently have to much Sulfur and aromatics within the fuel that will foul the sensor technology well before the specification (euro6 etc) time period. Once these die, more pollution and cost to the company and you.

What is different with the tech, aren’t they using existing tech, just more of it.
Like ad blue, and DPF combined?

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by smoo

Why can’t they bring them here regardless?

well, they can - my Transit is a UK spec Euro 6. If they can dump the crappy Euro 5 cars that they can't sell anywhere else, why would the sell the decent stuff. They can't mark up a Euro 6 car as it won't be competitive, so there is no incentive is there?

Look at Puma. They could sell the new Euro 6 UK model here, but they've chosen not to, and they are out of the segment all together as a result (apart from EV, but...)

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by smoo

What is different with the tech, aren’t they using existing tech, just more of it.
Like ad blue, and DPF combined?

for diesel yes, but petrol cars typically need a GPF which is an on-cost again.

But all this already exists in UK market cars, so all that is stopping the companies is ADR admin, and the will to bring the cars here.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by simon varley

yes. they are.

example. Ranger. In a RHD Euro 5 version, there are only 3 markets that car is sold in. South Africa sources from it's own plant. Thailand and Australia source from AAT/FTM. these are 2 different cars, so yes, 100% Ford makes specific cars only for the Aus market - plus needing to certify those cars for the stupid ADR approval

All the more reason why the general population better wake up and speak to their local member. It would be of little impact for the global auto manufacturers to simply exclude Australia from their model line up.

As I mentioned earlier the Thai PM raised this with Albo, even though he denies it. While Thailand might be concerned about the loss of exports to Australia I doubt Ford US really care.

[Franco Cozzo]

We can be like Cuba with no new cars and keeping old shitboxes on the road for 50 years Macgyvering old shit together

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by smoo

Let’s hope it stays that way.
The alternative is a huge money spinning operation with layers of bureaucracy paid by the end user and those who can least afford it.
The insignificant amount of crashes due to mechanic defects does not warrant annual or bi annual inspections.

Unfortunately that’s exactly the direction the government wants to take you. Under the guise of saving you thousands of dollars per year in fuel by getting you into an EV the average punter can’t afford under the guise of keeping the earth from warming 1.5 degrees.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Unfortunately that’s exactly the direction the government wants to take you. Under the guise of saving you thousands of dollars per year in fuel by getting you into an EV the average punter can’t afford under the guise of keeping the earth from warming 1.5 degrees.

Yes, and what better way to do it that by introducing a periodic RWC which will unreasonably fail perfectly usable older cars for defects that don’t make them economically feasible to repair.
An example may be minor rust on a B series Falcon at the fire wall seam, or boot lid strut etc.
A bit like the Covid farce… it’s all for our own safety, right.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

2027 is the date for the review of the Australian standards regarding our fuel.

If the government isn't retarded they could bring that forward immediately.

Quote from : https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-ch...ur%20to%202025.

Petrol
The petrol fuel standard describes the parameters of 91 Research Octane Number (RON) and 95 RON petrol. 98 RON petrol must meet the 95 RON standard.

Read the Fuel Quality Standards (Petrol) Determination 2019. The Australian Government will introduce legislation to reduce the amount of aromatic hydrocarbons allowed in 95 RON petrol from 2025. The legislation will adjust the start date for the 10 mg/kg sulfur to 2025.
Some additives are not included in this standard:

Tertiary amyl methyl ether (TAME)
Ethyl tertiary amyl ether (ETAE).
Potential importers or manufacturers of these (and other) additives should contact the Australian Industrial Chemicals Introduction Scheme to determine their obligations under the scheme.


So although it's 2024 and this will be implemented in 2025, we are in fact getting Europe's 2009 legislation.

https://www.transportpolicy.net/stan...-and-gasoline/

WOW. We are a backward country!!!!

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by smoo

What is different with the tech, aren’t they using existing tech, just more of it.
Like ad blue, and DPF combined?

So with increased enviro specification, the vehicle has to stay in "Specification" for longer. ie/ 100000kms, 200000kms etc

If the vehicle deviates and the company fails - fines.
If these sensors fail, all within this time, it'll cost the company to replace or you to have it replaced.

With diesel, other tech has been developed with would place it ahead of petrol but, diesel is a dirty word so, i'm sure i read, the europeans have just banned the sale of these, excluding certain vehicles of course.

[fatgas]

Question.

Are the remaining refineries up to the task (or the willingness) to produce fuel to these new standards? If not, full imports here we come and ZERO fuel security.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by fatgas

Question.

Are the remaining refineries up to the task (or the willingness) to produce fuel to these new standards? If not, full imports here we come and ZERO fuel security.

I don't think the oil companies care, it's probably cheaper for them to import anyway.

BTW, What fuel security?? It's all in the US and they would withhold sending to us because, they are the US!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fatgas

Question.

Are the remaining refineries up to the task (or the willingness) to produce fuel to these new standards? If not, full imports here we come and ZERO fuel security.

What fuel security? Didn't we close all our refineries anyway?

Govco should build a few super refineries, if we're going to throw shitloads of money around we might as well as spend it on something important.

[ljf12]

Happened upon this Car Expert article printed in May 2022.

“ The peak body for Australia’s car brands has used the change in federal government to again call for clear CO2 emissions target backed by penalties for non-compliance-as apply in Europe.

The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) put the introduction of CO2 reduction scheme onto the agenda for the government of Australia’s new Prime Minister Anthony Albanese.

Both the FCAI and various car brands which fund the lobby group in question have long demanded the introduction of CO2 emissions plans with teeth.

The argument behind such a policy is that it would force the overseas factories that produce low and zero emission cars to send more of them to Australia, to avoid fines.Their absence has led Australia being called a dumping ground for less efficient cars.”

If this is true maybe the FCAI didn’t expect so much change so quickly.

[fatgas]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What fuel security? Didn't we close all our refineries anyway?

Govco should build a few super refineries, if we're going to throw shitloads of money around we might as well as spend it on something important.

Geelong is still running flat knacker, I think there's one in Sydney still going?

[Sprintey]

Isn't the other one up in Brisbane? Anyway, BP Kwinana in the West closed so they've got nada refining. Viva Energy has done quite well with the Corio site and the blurb on intelligent investor says it supplies 1/4 of the nation's fuel needs.

https://www.intelligentinvestor.com....-group-limited


Our area is OK for refining.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ivorya

So with increased enviro specification, the vehicle has to stay in "Specification" for longer. ie/ 100000kms, 200000kms etc

If the vehicle deviates and the company fails - fines.
If these sensors fail, all within this time, it'll cost the company to replace or you to have it replaced.

With diesel, other tech has been developed with would place it ahead of petrol but, diesel is a dirty word so, i'm sure i read, the europeans have just banned the sale of these, excluding certain vehicles of course.

One would assume you have things like catalytic converters and various sensors added into service scheduling if this is going to occur.

Or you just design the car that it's useable life is say 140,000km which is what Euro cars feel like

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Standard operating procedure for these people - you know how it is.

There's a massive undercurrent of salty pricks about American utes around inner Melbourne, and its just because everyone is upset about others having the sort of coin to throw around on epic purchases like that, so they want them banned.

They're using the 'safety' aspect, with the green aspect on the tail end of the argument, but its not the agenda, its just the padding around the shit sandwich covered in sprinkles they want you to eat.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Melbourne councils specifically target large SUVs/Thailand Specials/American utes in disincentive programs because it will generally only effect people outside of their rate payers.

They have nothing to lose discriminating against people who live outside their LGAs who may own these vehicles, and only something to gain in the form of popularity with their electorate, if you live within 5KM radius of Melbourne CBD you won't usually own a Ranger, or a RAM.

Council could slug ‘truckzillas’, utes and SUVs with higher parking fees

An inner-Melbourne council could become the first municipality in Australia to increase parking fees for so-called truckzilla twin-cab utes and large SUVs, due to concerns about their safety and environmental impact.

Yarra City Council – which includes Fitzroy, Richmond and Collingwood – will on Tuesday debate a motion from Greens councillor Sophie Wade asking the council to investigate ways to discourage large and heavy vehicles on Yarra’s streets, including “proportionate parking fees based on a
vehicle’s size”.

Wade said she was “following Paris’ lead” in putting up the proposal, after Paris residents voted in a mini-referendum last month to triple parking fees for large cars, part of a push to get big cars off the city’s streets before the Olympics later this year.

“Here in Aus, we’re seeing RAMs and ‘Defenders’ on the rise,” Wade wrote on Instagram. She said no other council had tried the idea.

“These are luxury vehicles, costing upwards of $100k, and they’re significantly more dangerous than smaller vehicles.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...08-p5fazj.html

See the theme creeping in constantly?

'Luxury vehicles'
'Costing upwards of $100K'

Then throw in the 'safety aspect' which Citroen rightly pointed out it has nothing to do with the green angle they're targeting:



Um, thats not an SUV Sophie

Was mentioned on AFF before that these people are in a minority and that just because they're loud that it won't effect the rest of us, or something along those lines.

They might be a minority but they're disproportionately powerful and hold significant influence where it counts. How quick have you seen a council move like this before?

Curious to see the effects of this, because our TAFE is in their LGA and a lot of the students have Thailand Specials, vans et al, you know cause electrical apprentices.

They only sell like 200-250 Silverados/RAMs a month, its just that they're prominent so they stick out like dogs balls, there's not that many of them on our roads.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Or you just design the car that it's useable life is say 140,000km which is what Euro cars feel like

Euro 6 has tightened up in various editions. It uses something called a conformity factor, which relates how close the test is to actual real world driving. We all know that historically real world figures don't match the lab, but in the latest Eu6, the conformity factor is 1.0 which means lab must match road!

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Curious to see the effects of this, because our TAFE is in their LGA and a lot of the students have Thailand Specials, vans et al, you know cause electrical apprentices.

Yeah, that's how you separate the second year from the third year apprentices. The second year have a clapped out Hilux/Patrol/Ranger. The third year have a new Hilux or Ranger. The fourth year apprentices have it all kitted out with suspension GMV upgrades, camping kit, solar panels, and are usually towing a jet ski, high powered boat, or fully decked out camping trailer. The young sparkie in our street has so much kit hanging off his Ute, he could deploy tomorrow for the Gunbarrel Highway.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Um, thats not an SUV Sophie

I had a quick look at Sophie's web site, and she claims that she walks or catches public transport everywhere. Which is nice for those who don't have to lug around tools and materials to do their job.

In many respects the Greens are much like the 33% of kids who have no idea where milk comes from. They have no practical experience in dealing with making or installing something useful. Because they do not have these lived experiences, it doesn't exist or it is a fairy tale.

For example, it is really, really, hard to carry 20 solar panels (2m X 1m @ 22kg each), a solar PV inverter, conduit, and cables to install solar PV in the family home - using nothing but public transport. If it carn't be an SUV, then the only option is upwards in size. Like a Isuzu N-Series or a Fuso Canter.

(For some overloaded Tradie's vehicles, that might be a good thing. But that is another story.)

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

Euro 6 has tightened up in various editions. It uses something called a conformity factor, which relates how close the test is to actual real world driving. We all know that historically real world figures don't match the lab, but in the latest Eu6, the conformity factor is 1.0 which means lab must match road!

Wonder if that was because of everyone cheating emissions,

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by whynot

For example, it is really, really, hard to carry 20 solar panels (2m X 1m @ 22kg each), a solar PV inverter, conduit, and cables to install solar PV in the family home - using nothing but public transport. If it carn't be an SUV, then the only option is upwards in size. Like a Isuzu N-Series or a Fuso Canter.

(For some overloaded Tradie's vehicles, that might be a good thing. But that is another story.)

It's not impossible though, just a matter of thinking what's needed per jobsite and when.
I've worked in places where the trade guys will keep their stuff onsite and still want to park right in front of the front door for no reason other than being FN lazy.

When I work in $ydney I use public transport carrying a bag of hand tools.
Tons of sandstone can be delivered as can sand and cement, which I'll do regularly. Stone can show up onsite within a days order.
If its a job where I need star pickets, shovels etc these I can be dropped off via car/truck previous to starting said job.

Country Victoria is a totally different approach granite needs to be picked by myself from the quarry as it can not be pre delivered and simply cut to shape like NSW/QLD Sandstone.

And Melbourne, its back to a mix of PT or truck if needing to bring granite from outside. Melbourne's soft Blue stone is easy to work so can be delivered to site and worked into required shapes.

Any thing can be worked around if you are open to it, is my point.
Not for everyone but its a good mix.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

If its a job where I need star pickets, shovels etc these I can be dropped off via car/truck previous to starting said job.

But, somebody, somewhere has to drive a delivery vehicle to get the materials to site. Be that SUV, van, light truck.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by whynot

But, somebody, somewhere has to drive a delivery vehicle to get the materials to site. Be that SUV, van, light truck.

Think of it as supporting another persons industry/business by having it delivered while I can still be onsite working and not wasting time driving around a city looking for supplies.
I like to feel the client is paying for the time being worked not stuffing around.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...08-p5fazj.html

See the theme creeping in constantly?

'Luxury vehicles'
'Costing upwards of $100K'

Then throw in the 'safety aspect' which Citroen rightly pointed out it has nothing to do with the green angle they're targeting:

image

Um, thats not an SUV Sophie

Was mentioned on AFF before that these people are in a minority and that just because they're loud that it won't effect the rest of us, or something along those lines.

They might be a minority but they're disproportionately powerful and hold significant influence where it counts. How quick have you seen a council move like this before?

Curious to see the effects of this, because our TAFE is in their LGA and a lot of the students have Thailand Specials, vans et al, you know cause electrical apprentices.

They only sell like 200-250 Silverados/RAMs a month, its just that they're prominent so they stick out like dogs balls, there's not that many of them on our roads.

The bowtie in that pic is at perfect height for the kids to see and gain a strong brand impression so they become future customers.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The bowtie in that pic is at perfect height

as are bull bars. just right for smashing little kiddies brains in. I've said it before, but I've no idea why we still have these. If the council want to get on their high horse and ban something for 'safety' then how about look at these in the City?

[Citroënbender]

Without rigorous statistical analysis, simply recall of police/media reports - most squashed kids are run over in a familiar driveway by someone reversing at the commencement of an intended trip.

If people instead reversed into their driveways and also did a walk-around before getting in to drive away, many - if not nearly all - of these incidents would be mitigated.

Aside from this point of difference, I very much appreciate your experience/insight - particularly on issues of design conformity and specifications.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

as are bull bars. just right for smashing little kiddies brains in. I've said it before, but I've no idea why we still have these. If the council want to get on their high horse and ban something for 'safety' then how about look at these in the City?

Because it's not about safety, it's about power and control wrapped up in a lovely shit sandwich, advertised as 'safety', it's the sprinkles they put on the shit sandwich to make it a bit more palatable to the public.

I don't like these vehicles SO YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE!

I'm the most rabid Thailand Special hater on this forum but god damn I'll go down on the sinking ship defending your ability to purchase and drive one, they'll need to take the keys of your precious Thailand Special from my cold dead hands

Unrelated but this is what I loved about Mt Druitt/Rooty Hill in Sydney, everyone minds their own business, here in Melbourne everyone's all up in each other's shit and that's why we got flog councilors running a war on what car you drive rather than making sure the bins get picked up and the grass gets cut.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...08-p5fazj.html

See the theme creeping in constantly?

'Luxury vehicles'
'Costing upwards of $100K'

Then throw in the 'safety aspect' which Citroen rightly pointed out it has nothing to do with the green angle they're targeting:

image

Um, thats not an SUV Sophie

Was mentioned on AFF before that these people are in a minority and that just because they're loud that it won't effect the rest of us, or something along those lines.

They might be a minority but they're disproportionately powerful and hold significant influence where it counts. How quick have you seen a council move like this before?

Curious to see the effects of this, because our TAFE is in their LGA and a lot of the students have Thailand Specials, vans et al, you know cause electrical apprentices.

They only sell like 200-250 Silverados/RAMs a month, its just that they're prominent so they stick out like dogs balls, there's not that many of them on our roads.

Wouldn’t be surprised if more children and pedestrians are injured by rouge cyclists and E scooter riders than vehicles the greens love to hate.