Why do P Plater/Teens love Commodores so much? - Page 7

svo supporter · 06-02-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Sorry to disappoint you letting the thread run. The fact of the matter is if a topic can be discussed in an informative and fun way, despite your bias towards the way things are moderated there is no problems in letting these types of discussions run. Frankly, reading through the thread, I find an equal balance between those who are critical against Holden and those against Ford ....... And if you flick through the forums you will find that the bias is not as pronounced as you think it is. For a forum that caters for a single brand, it always surprises me on the level of tolerance there is here compared especially to the 'other' forum.

If people cannot discuss something without getting personal or abusive, there is no reason to close it. So far it has been a quite interesting read

Please don't think I'm questioning you're moderation style, but when you read quotes like "to keep d/h's out of Fords" and "'Or when you look at the centrelink car park, its filled with 10 year old commodores. People pick cars that match their personalities.", it does start going down the same path.

Check out the first page of this thread. These are just 2 comments I found and I didn't even get half way down, hence my comments.

I will grant, there has ben a swing towards "downgrading" Fords, but the downgrading of this brand doesn't extend a low as the above comments.

Glen 5150 · 06-02-2011, 11:03 AM

I totally agree with Polyal. It all goes in cycles and what is percieved as popular at the time. People want to be associated with winners. When i was in high school (early to mid 80's) all my mates wanted Commodores, and I copped an absolute bagging being a blueblood. Just remember the P platers of today are the sons and daughters of my era, and most sons follow in their Fathers footsteps when it comes to car choice? Ford v Holden. I've got no doubt the success of HDT and Brock at Bathurst was the catalyst at High School. Then came along the Mustang and Sierra, wonderful cars but you couldnt associate with one and the VL waived the flag again for Holden, with young blokes wanting either the 6, turbo or 8. Then the Nissan GTR comes along and dominates the track and the minds of young blokes. Everyone wants a Silvia or R31 or 32 or an early model Datsun with a hotdog? The Seton and DJR EB's and EL's brought the Ford diehards out, but it was to late, and momentum is a strange and powerful beast. Things got worse with the lack of success of the AU, but the sucess of Ambrose and 888 with the B series have turned things around though. I'm amazed how many P platers that are driving around in early B series XT's and XR6's. Commodore still dominates the wish list, but i'm sure its not as bad as it used to be?

4Vman · 06-02-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Please don't think I'm questioning you're moderation style, but when you read quotes like "to keep idiots out of Fords" and "'cos it's faster and rips better skids", it does start going down the same path. Hence my comments

You have to accept the fact this is a Ford forum first and foremost.... however out of all the "branded" forums ive seen this one is by far the most brand tolerant and "neutral" forum around, by a mile.

svo supporter · 06-02-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You have to accept the fact this is a Ford forum first and foremost.... however out of all the "branded" forums ive seen this one is by far the most brand tolerant and "neutral" forum around, by a mile.

Yes, I accept it's a Ford forum and it's a place for like minded people to share information, but getting on here and reading comments downgrading people due to the brand of their car they drive is a little "childish" Hence the reason behind my comments. Check out page 1 of this thread and there's about 3 really downgrading comments to start with.

Here's another example "Because they wrap around power poles better than the Falcon". Seriously, would you call this "acceptible" comments?

Ford_The_Win · 06-02-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Yes, I accept it's a Ford forum and it's a place for like minded people to share information, but getting on here and reading comments downgrading people due to the brand of their car they drive is a little "childish" Hence the reason behind my comments. Check out page 1 of this thread and there's about 3 really downgrading comments to start with.

Here's another example "Because they wrap around power poles better". Seriously, would you call this "acceptible" comments?

In all seriousness though, what would you expect from this sort of discussion on a FORD forum? What's your definition of "acceptable"? The Ford boys are not going to be saying "Because the Commodore has a superior powertrain, build quality level and overall a better package"

woteva · 06-02-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You have to accept the fact this is a Ford forum first and foremost.... however out of all the "branded" forums ive seen this one is by far the most brand tolerant and "neutral" forum around, by a mile.

Funny that. My opinion is that it is the other way around. In regard to Ford Vs. Holden at least.

Ryan · 06-02-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

You haven't heard how much of the new 335 GT is aussie developed?? Well, the engine anyway..
Oh and i'm reffering to the falcon vs commodore, which is more, don't really care for mondeo's, focus's and the rest... as good as they are.

In that case I can't disagree. The Falcon has had more Australian components for quite a number of years. I love Commodores, but have never carried on with the "Commodores are more ozzy mate". I know they're not. Hell mine is German designed, with a Japanese heart.

Anyway alot of people have brought up interesting points. I was only a child in the late 80s, so I don't remember what it was like to be a Holden fan back in those days (obviously).

If I was the age I am now back in 1986-1990, and I was looking for an Australian performance car the Commodore would have been much more appealing. For example if a young guy wanted a guy with a bit of muscle what would he choose? A VN SS, or EA S Pack?

Ford really hurt themselves by dropping the V8 in 1984. While the Falcon was a good selling car among regular Australians its image from its early days with the likes of the Phase 3 was basically shattered.

I don't even think when Tickford was formed it really helped Ford a great deal. IMO Tickford never had the same impact as HSV did when it was still a relatively young company. Growing up in the 90s I saw ads for HSV all the time. I didn't even know what Tickford was, because of their very thinly spread out exposure.

Then of course there was the dreaded AU era in V8SCs.

I was in high school from 1998 to 2002, and I must admit I used to give the Ford fans some stick back in those days.

In saying all the the introduction of the Turbo 6, and FPV has really helped Ford's performance image. In 10 years I can see the XR6T being a very popular car among young blokes. Even though they already are now really.

I guess everyone has their reasons for buying a Commodore, just as most have their reasons for buying a Falcon. Personally I think both are great cars, and I don't know what I would do without them. I've never really like Japanese Imports (there are a few exceptions), and as much as I love American Iron it's out of reach for me.

Aslong as Commodores, and Falcons continue to roam our streets I'll always be happy, but like most things you get the idiots that ruin it for everyone. Sometimes when I drive it feels like people give me the death stare, and expect me to rip a burnout, but I drive just like a average road user.

**Polyal** · 06-02-2011, 11:44 AM

Well I can add another sweeping statement that 90% of commy owners do not know a thing about their car, were it came from, who does the work, what parts are from were.

I remember in high school all the Holden lovers creamed over a VL turbo, funny how the most popular commodore made (pretty much!) uses a Nissan engine....

The two brands end product is actually very close when you step back, but the way they go about their business is completely different.

From being in thje industry a bit I have found that Ford are notorious for over engineering their cars, they spend so much time on this that the customer will not notice. This pays off when it comes to refinement and quality (speaking broad terms here).

Holden I think have played it rather smart and seem to upgrade the things that matter most to the consumer and keep it fresh. Yes they kill their resale but the keep current sales up and the ball rolling....so while resales come down the price for entry is less and you "appear" to get a better commy than a falcon. Its easier to move up the ladder on the red side.

Bunyip04 · 06-02-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

In that case I can't disagree. The Falcon has had more Australian components for quite a number of years. I love Commodores, but have never carried on with the "Commodores are more ozzy mate". I know they're not. Hell mine is German designed, with a Japanese heart.

Anyway alot of people have brought up interesting points. I was only a child in the late 80s, so I don't remember what it was like to be a Holden fan back in those days (obviously).

If I was the age I am now back in 1986-1990, and I was looking for an Australian performance car the Commodore would have been much more appealing. For example if a young guy wanted a guy with a bit of muscle what would he choose? A VN SS, or EA S Pack?

Ford really hurt themselves by dropping the V8 in 1984. While the Falcon was a good selling car among regular Australians its image from its early days with the likes of the Phase 3 was basically shattered.

I don't even think when Tickford was formed it really helped Ford a great deal. IMO Tickford never had the same impact as HSV did when it was still a relatively young company. Growing up in the 90s I saw ads for HSV all the time. I didn't even know what Tickford was, because of their very thinly spread out exposure.

Then of course there was the dreaded AU era in V8SCs.

I was in high school from 1998 to 2002, and I must admit I used to give the Ford fans some stick back in those days.

In saying all the the introduction of the Turbo 6, and FPV has really helped Ford's performance image. In 10 years I can see the XR6T being a very popular car among young blokes. Even though they already are now really.

I guess everyone has their reasons for buying a Commodore, just as most have their reasons for buying a Falcon. Personally I think both are great cars, and I don't know what I would do without them. I've never really like Japanese Imports (there are a few exceptions), and as much as I love American Iron it's out of reach for me.

Aslong as Commodores, and Falcons continue to roam our streets I'll always be happy, but like most things you get the idiots that ruin it for everyone. Sometimes when I drive it feels like people give me the death stare, and expect me to rip a burnout, but I drive just like a average road user.

Mate i totally agree with you about the HSV's, i remember my old man's boss was as redblooded as it gets, and he had these magazine's (can't remember the name... Extreme somethingorother pretty sure) that came out showcasing the GTO's and GTS coupes when they came out, and the Grange's, Clubby's and the rest... and i was amazed, i wouldv'e been about 16 at the time pretty sure, even when i see them in good nick now, it's pretty awe inspiring, espicially that there benchmark back then was like a 297 Clubsport, and we (Ford lovers) had the 220kw Tickford XR8... They were indeed dark times haha.

Oh and about the whole "Holden is more Aussie" thing, it just ****** me off when a "diehard" Holden fan, won't accept it, when they're the one that started it in the first place..

Ryan · 06-02-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

Mate i totally agree with you about the HSV's, i remember my old man's boss was as redblooded as it gets, and he had these magazine's (can't remember the name... Extreme somethingorother pretty sure) that came out showcasing the GTO's and GTS coupes when they came out, and the Grange's, Clubby's and the rest... and i was amazed, i wouldv'e been about 16 at the time pretty sure, even when i see them in good nick now, it's pretty awe inspiring, espicially that there benchmark back then was like a 297 Clubsport, and we (Ford lovers) had the 220kw Tickford XR8... They were indeed dark times haha.

Exactly mate. At that time I could name every HSV, because the advertising was everywhere. Even something as simple as going to K-Mart it was infront of me, because of the HSV/Holden merchandise. It wasn't until about 8-9 years ago that I knew Tickford was actually Ford's answer to HSV.

I always knew of Tickford's involvement in the ATCC, but I didn't know they enhanced Falcons much less being around in Australia since the early 1990s, and even having roots to Ford in Britain.

I've always seen Holden/HSV as far more aggressive, and persistent with pushing their product whereas Ford/Tickford/FPV have always been more conservative, and not as willing to go all out. In FPV's credit over the last few years they've been getting more aggressive however.

Bunyip04 · 06-02-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Exactly mate. At that time I could name every HSV, because the advertising was everywhere. Even something as simple as going to K-Mart it was infront of me, because of the HSV/Holden merchandise. It wasn't until about 8-9 years ago that I knew Tickford was actually Ford's answer to HSV.

I always knew of Tickford's involvement in the ATCC, but I didn't know they enhanced Falcons much less being around in Australia since the early 1990s, and even having roots to Ford in Britain.

I've always seen Holden/HSV as far more aggressive, and persistent with pushing their product whereas Ford/Tickford/FPV have always been more conservative, and not as willing to go all out. In FPV's credit over the last few years they've been getting more aggressive however.

Totally agree, i also could name every model, the old man was even impressed, and he's one of those stubborn Ford men from back in the day haha. Even just the advertising (as you've mentioned) was better than anything Ford had.
Actually, (come to think of it) the first i knew of Tickford's involvement with ATCC was Seto's Tickford Racing AU, That was quite an attractive looking rig mind you haha.

It's such a big shame it's taken this long for Ford to get it right...

I was the happiest young chap alive when they brought out the B series believe you me...

svo supporter · 06-02-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

In all seriousness though, what would you expect from this sort of discussion on a FORD forum? What's your definition of "acceptable"? The Ford boys are not going to be saying "Because the Commodore has a superior powertrain, build quality level and overall a better package"

So you're insinuating that saying "wrapping a car around a power pole" is or keeping DH's out of Fords is acceptible. This is the sort of garbage I thought the mods were clamping down on.

As for build quality, powertrain and all the rest. Mate, look around this forum at the dramas Fords are having. Ball joints falling out, brakes failing just to name a couple. Commodores didn't suffer those issues from new.

I'm not biased towards either brand, as I own both. To be quite honest, the last 3 Fords I have owned would have to be the biggest POS I have ever owned. That includes my 1995 Fairlane, that I still have. (Only has 241,000 on the clock as well)

To half back up my claims, repair list Fairlane in the last 3 months 1 Harmonic balancer, 2 head gaskets, 1 window winder cable and 1 brake light switch.

Commodore. Zilch. Both do about the same kays per day, so kilometres travelled aren't a factor. Commodore gets driven harder than the fairlane too, even though the Fairlane is an 8 and the Commodore is a red 6.

I just thought the mods were clamping down on the downgrading sorts of comments relating to Commodores.

SVR73 · 06-02-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auturbo6

The commodore revs harder and are more involving to drive, wheras the falcon is more lazy in it's driving delivery. The falcon is not slower than the commodore by any means, but just feels slower and more relaxed, which isn't what a young driver wants in a vehicle.

dont agree with that at all

ST · 06-02-2011, 04:13 PM

Come on kids, we all know none of you are right.

This thread has run its course now (descending into the typical belligerence this forum thrives on) and only further confirms what was written earlier - there is no definite or universal answer as to why.

XCwillo · 06-02-2011, 04:19 PM

Bunyip04 · 06-02-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

Come on kids, we all know none of you are right.

This thread has run its course now (descending into the typical belligerence this forum thrives on) and only further confirms what was written earlier - there is no definite or universal answer as to why.

Not everyone here is talking about why p platers blah blah blah.... anyway.
Like for instance, Ryan and myself, reminised about when HSV made their yr 2000 onwards models, that was interesting to hear his opinion.
No need to slag out EVERYONE....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

(descending into the typical belligerence this forum thrives on).

ST · 06-02-2011, 04:44 PM

I'm not slagging on anyone at all, my (light-hearted) comment was actually aimed at svo supporter and Ford_The_Win but somebody replied before me so I edited my post.

4Vman · 06-02-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Yes, I accept it's a Ford forum and it's a place for like minded people to share information, but getting on here and reading comments downgrading people due to the brand of their car they drive is a little "childish" Hence the reason behind my comments. Check out page 1 of this thread and there's about 3 really downgrading comments to start with.

Here's another example "Because they wrap around power poles better than the Falcon". Seriously, would you call this "acceptible" comments?

I think we can all see the jest in those comments. Look, i accept you've got a preference for Holden/Chrysler, its clear from your post history, which is perfectly fine, i sometimes look at other Brand Forums too, but i think you're getting a bit over protective of Holden by worrying about those kind of comments on a Ford Forum....

Bunyip04 · 06-02-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

As for build quality, powertrain and all the rest. Mate, look around this forum at the dramas Fords are having. Ball joints falling out, brakes failing just to name a couple. Commodores didn't suffer those issues from new.

I'm not biased towards either brand, as I own both. To be quite honest, the last 3 Fords I have owned would have to be the biggest POS I have ever owned. That includes my 1995 Fairlane, that I still have. (Only has 241,000 on the clock as well)

To half back up my claims, repair list Fairlane in the last 3 months 1 Harmonic balancer, 2 head gaskets, 1 window winder cable and 1 brake light switch.

Commodore. Zilch. Both do about the same kays per day, so kilometres travelled aren't a factor. Commodore gets driven harder than the fairlane too, even though the Fairlane is an 8 and the Commodore is a red 6.

I just thought the mods were clamping down on the downgrading sorts of comments relating to Commodores.

Mate... In the end it's luck of the draw.... I've met a coupla tow truck drivers that say they pick up equal numbers of Falcons and Commo's all the time, not to mention mechanics in the industry that talk about the faults Ford's and Commo's have unique to that particular model.....

Bunyip04 · 06-02-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

I'm not slagging on anyone at all, my (light-hearted) comment was actually aimed at svo supporter and Ford_The_Win but somebody replied before me so I edited my post.

Ah...

Roger, my appoligies....

vztrt · 06-02-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.0

That's another thing that peevs me off with Ford..why the hell do BF XR6 utes have a crummy old T5 while the sedan gets the T56..all Holdens had a 6 speed, Wasn't until FG that Ford got the 6 speed in the n/a utes.

Have you driven these utes, the 5 speed is much much better then the BA's, and as good as the 6 speeds.

At the end of the day they run Tremec boxes which are pretty ordinary boxes when it comes to refinement.

G6E Turbo 2 · 06-02-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Could be second generation knock on affect from Ford losing their way in the mid 80s dropping the V8 and using the Sierra as their Bathurst Special. Guys my age didn't think much of contemporary Fords at that time and a lot favored Holdens (I bought old XC 351s). those people kids are getting to drive age now.
Plus Ford does their best to sabotage themselves in all forms of advertising; it's like they fear directly competing with Holden so just don't bother.
I drive a Commodore and like it .. It was the best tool for the job at the time. Like wifes FG ute (and my old AU ute) .. You don't buy a Holden ute to carry or tow anything.

That theory pretty much gets my vote

AND FORD doing a realy poor marketing job for 20 years

My Son In law owns a Calais V8 and my G6ET kicks its ****
His goes to the dealer every 2 months for fixing faults
mine has never been to the dealer for a fault in 80K

GS608 · 06-02-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Have you driven these utes, the 5 speed is much much better then the BA's, and as good as the 6 speeds.

At the end of the day they run Tremec boxes which are pretty ordinary boxes when it comes to refinement.

Yeah I had a 5 Sp BF XR6 up till last month, hadn't driven a previous T5 though, assumed they'd be the exact same box?

RAPID_BA · 06-02-2011, 11:28 PM

Is it because young people think they can make a 6 (and 4s) sound like a V8? Bigger exhaust bro!!

Zero_PSI · 07-02-2011, 02:33 AM

I kinda swung towards ford for the reputation of not being the typical p plate thrashbox. Then I fell inlove with fords....They just seem better built and more refined than any other car I've been in.

XCwillo · 07-02-2011, 08:39 AM

Okay so when i was out cruising last night i asked most of the commodore guys why they bought a commodore

AND HOLY CRAP

Surprisingly, it's just because they like the brand, and the look of the cars and the fact everyone else has one.

Did not see that one coming at all

So everyone can stop wasting their time writing up paragraphs saying how one is more reliable then the other, one has better traction, one has better torque.
Because they very rarely consider any of those

The guys i interviewed basically said
"my mate has one, so he could help me do work on it if i needed to"
"cause they good when you do 'em up right"
"Cheap and powerfull"
"Its a Holden, I like Holdens"

I don't see we needed all this discussion to come to a conclussion.
Its the EXACT same reasons us P platers who have fords have bought fords.

They have a personal opinion and so do we.
Weird, hey?

/Thread closed?

EB# · 07-02-2011, 08:43 AM

Holden is very clever at marketing an "Aussie Car" that up until '06 is not Australian.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/data/2937/quote.jpg[/IMG]
From Australian Muscle Car, Issue 51, Sept '10.

For those who may not know, the "Opel" is originally a European manufacturer,
then later aquired by GM.
The real first Commodore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_V_platform_%28RWD%29