VFacts November 2013

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by Focused

On the topic of the Mondeo, there's a few things against it.
It's replacement looks amazing so any car-savvy will be holding off for that. And unfortunately, the interior of the current car is really showing its age.

Also I dare say that the few people who end up getting into the dealer may well spot a Kuga (damn nice) or Territory (damn good deals) in the distance and go with one of those.

I must admit I can't say I've seen a Mondeo ad recently. Maybe Ford are holding off a little until the new car arrives next year? I saw it in the metal at the Going Further event and it looked amazing!

I'm driving a Mondeo renter at the moment with low kms, LX. First Mondeo I've ever driven. Lots of nice things about it (looks good outside, spritely engine except for the snatchy accelerator from still, nice enough trans, handles ok) but it doesn't come across as a mid-30's driveaway vehicle competing with the likes of the Hyundai brigade. Surprisingly large inside though, nice use of space. Love the look of the new one but they might want to price it a little more keenly.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by superyob

My humble apologies for offending you with my 'stupid question'. I don't profess to know all...

Sorry but that type of question always gets to me. People come to the wrong conclusion that when a car company stops production they will no longer be able to get spare parts for their car. This type of misinformation is then propagated by the uninformed and before you know it, fiction becomes fact (e.g. people state the Nissan Skyline GT-R was banned from racing in Australia ).

The only time you would not be able to get spare parts for your Falcon is if the WHOLE Ford company went bankrupt. In this case, it is only Ford Australia which is closing. The Ford global company will continue to operate.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by fte50

Some valid points above re factors contributing to the death of our large oz cars , however beyond the the obvious "physical differences of the 2 above mentioned" one can safely argue that our large rwd sedans are infact versatile vehicles, just as they have been so for the last 60yrs.

Large sedans totally designed & engineered for our Australian conditions, accommodating 5 adults in comfort, able to be a family car, sports car, luxury car, work car etc all whilst producing great power & efficiency figures when considering all factors eg power/economy/weight/price.

People too quickly forget their family holidays, towing a caravan, family sedan packed to the brim and still accommodating a family .......... try doing that with half these new "versatile class leading cars" you speak of.

In reality the fact is they aren't half as versatile as our large cars, despite it being a trendsetting argument of late, but more to do with our ever changing lifestyles etc - as an example how many folks now choose to fly rather than drive on holidays.

I own a large V8 sedan and a dual cab 4wd ute with canopy and can tell you from first hand experience - 3 box sedan is the least versatile design for family, work car or camping trip away.
Efficiency wise dual cab is also more efficient and thanks to long range tank has over 1500km range . Ever tried carrying a dirty dog in a sedan ? Or muddy mountain bike ? Packing away fridge and a tent ? Easy in a dual cab.
Body on chassis design is also better for towing and diesel torque is where you need it. Can go off road too.
For all other times there is a sedan...

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Sorry but that type of question always gets to me. People come to the wrong conclusion that when a car company stops production they will no longer be able to get spare parts for their car. This type of misinformation is then propagated by the uninformed and before you know it, fiction becomes fact (e.g. people state the Nissan Skyline GT-R was banned from racing in Australia ).

The only time you would not be able to get spare parts for your Falcon is if the WHOLE Ford company went bankrupt. In this case, it is only Ford Australia which is closing. The Ford global company will continue to operate.

It is only local manufacturing that will close - Ford Australia will continue to exist.

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Enough of the passive aggressive posts from all please....move along with the topic.

Been an interesting read so far - seems I missed the memo that you have to drink tequila before participating in this thread.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Stupid question. All cars sold in Australia must carry spare parts for ten years after that model is no longer produced/sold. It is a legal requirement for all brands.

I dont believe that statement is true. I think the correct terminology is "reasonable time", but I stand to be corrected. More importantly, if the falcon or territory have unique parts (instead of from the global parts bin) , you can expect that
1- due to low number of yearly sales preceeding production ceasing, who ever has the tooling to make the parts, will be charging a premium to make it worth while due to low production numbers required.
2- low sales also means that the number of cars at wreckers (for spare parts) will also be lower in the future.

A Carolla at 40,000 sales per year more than likely will have 4 times as many of them in wreckers in years from now than a Falcon selling 10,000 per.

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Was that including Super Duty? Would have to be, that's insane when you compare that number to the tiny figures we get here.

Manufactured numbers up to 30 Nov 2013

F Series - 595,024
Super Duty - 258,490
Chassis - 13,227

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Sorry but that type of question always gets to me. People come to the wrong conclusion that when a car company stops production they will no longer be able to get spare parts for their car. This type of misinformation is then propagated by the uninformed and before you know it, fiction becomes fact (e.g. people state the Nissan Skyline GT-R was banned from racing in Australia ).

The only time you would not be able to get spare parts for your Falcon is if the WHOLE Ford company went bankrupt. In this case, it is only Ford Australia which is closing. The Ford global company will continue to operate.

If you like to be precise it is not Ford Australia that is "closing" - Ford Australia is ceasing local car manufacturing.
As for spare parts availability after local manufacturing closes - it will exist but there could be delays depending on type of part . Tooling gets outsourced and costs go up based on low volumes and small runs . Local first tier suppliers will hopefully continue their business . Basically end of local manufacturing is not great news for spare parts supply either.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I disagree to some extent.
You can't compare rugby to car sales.
A car is generally seen as an important purchase, usually the second highest costing asset one would buy. Most (including myself) take this purchase seriously. I look at what I want, what is on offer then begin to narrow it down.
Money is becoming tighter these days so many people are taking their car purchases a lot more seriously, head ruling over heart.
No point in buying something just because it is made here when it isn't the best available option you have.

I wasn't aiming to compare the two I was trying to illustrate a point. it's all good.
Maybe Patriotism is a good thing for our own economy tho? Our cars are practical, except for dual cab utes we have everything you need in a car with our local product how can anyone say that something else is better suited when most cars are pretty close in spec than something else these days?

[Bossxr8]

I'd love to know how many of those Falcons and Territories were factory lease cars. I'd say a very large percentage of them.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

I wasn't aiming to compare the two I was trying to illustrate a point. it's all good.
Maybe Patriotism is a good thing for our own economy tho? Our cars are practical, except for dual cab utes we have everything you need in a car with our local product how can anyone say that something else is better suited when most cars are pretty close in spec than something else these days?

There is nothing wrong with patriotism but blind patriotism is the problem.
A sedan is NOT practical for EVERYONE.
How can you know what people want in their purchases and then go on to state that they can adapt their lives to a local car they don't want?

How would you like it if I told you the only house you can get is a 1 bedroom unit with a kitchen and a toilet, no garden and no garage, i mean hey it is pretty close to the spec of a larger 3 bedroom house. It should do.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Wretched

There is nothing wrong with patriotism but blind patriotism is the problem.
A sedan is NOT practical for EVERYONE.
How can you know what people want in their purchases and then go on to state that they can adapt their lives to a local car they don't want?

How would you like it if I told you the only house you can get is a foreign built1 bedroom unit with a kitchen and a toilet, no garden and no garage, i mean hey it is pretty close to the spec of a larger 3 bedroom house. It should do.

I think the point you are trying to make is inserted in bold? Not trying to steer your argument, but is this what you meant?

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

I wasn't aiming to compare the two I was trying to illustrate a point. it's all good.
Maybe Patriotism is a good thing for our own economy tho? Our cars are practical, except for dual cab utes we have everything you need in a car with our local product how can anyone say that something else is better suited when most cars are pretty close in spec than something else these days?

Are you for real ? If this was the case why do imported cars make up 90% of sales.

[Focused]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

I'm driving a Mondeo renter at the moment with low kms, LX. First Mondeo I've ever driven. Lots of nice things about it (looks good outside, spritely engine except for the snatchy accelerator from still, nice enough trans, handles ok) but it doesn't come across as a mid-30's driveaway vehicle competing with the likes of the Hyundai brigade. Surprisingly large inside though, nice use of space. Love the look of the new one but they might want to price it a little more keenly.

Yeah it's OK (my prev car was a MA TDCI) but struggles when compared to the new 6 or Accord, let alone the preferred SUV shape/room of a Kuga or a Territory.

[Spammy]

How are you "buy local at all costs" guys going to cope come Feb/March next year when Holden announce they are stopping local production?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by superyob

I think the point you are trying to make is inserted in bold? Not trying to steer your argument, but is this what you meant?

Not really, my point was that everyone has different tastes, requirements and opinions. Just because I or you or anyone else prefers one thing over another doesn't mean we're right.
I find it amusing that some here find it their business to judge others for what or where they buy a product. That they feel they intrude into other people's lives to dictate the type of vehicle that should be bought and adapt their life to it just because that person has a bias towards that type of car.

No one should have to justify the purchase of their car to anyone on this or any other forum (unless of course their significant other is a member ).
Some people need to get it through their heads that the local cars are not a one size fits all, not everyone likes them and shouldn't have to be told to buy one. It's their choice.

[unkey]

Wretched,you wouldn't,as a matter of interest have Hondas figures for November,would you ???

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by unkey

Wretched,you wouldn't,as a matter of interest have Hondas figures for November,would you ???

Enjoy

Honda 2013 2012
Honda Accord 233 297
Honda Accord Euro 125 285
Honda City 34 144
Honda Civic 1,011 1,561
Honda CR-V 835 840
Honda CR-Z 3 9
Honda Insight 4 7
Honda Jazz 313 765
Honda Legend 1 0
Honda Odyssey 77 97
Honda Total 2,636 4,005

Change -34%

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Enjoy

Honda 2013 2012
Honda Accord 233 297
Honda Accord Euro 125 285
Honda City 34 144
Honda Civic 1,011 1,561
Honda CR-V 835 840
Honda CR-Z 3 9
Honda Insight 4 7
Honda Jazz 313 765
Honda Legend 1 0
Honda Odyssey 77 97
Honda Total 2,636 4,005

Change -34%

Thats making Ford look good.

[Focused]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Enjoy

Honda 2013 2012
Honda Accord 233 297
Honda Accord Euro 125 285
Honda City 34 144
Honda Civic 1,011 1,561
Honda CR-V 835 840
Honda CR-Z 3 9
Honda Insight 4 7
Honda Jazz 313 765
Honda Legend 1 0
Honda Odyssey 77 97
Honda Total 2,636 4,005

Change -34%

Poor Accord sales! Maybe there's just no interest in the mid-large sedans?

[Auslandau]

Poor Honda in general! They were going so well a few years back but cars like the Euro which was fresh 10 years or so ago and sold well is now looking old and boxy.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Enjoy

Honda 2013 2012
Honda Accord 233 297
Honda Accord Euro 125 285
Honda City 34 144
Honda Civic 1,011 1,561
Honda CR-V 835 840
Honda CR-Z 3 9
Honda Insight 4 7
Honda Jazz 313 765
Honda Legend 1 0
Honda Odyssey 77 97
Honda Total 2,636 4,005

Change -34%

Wait, what? So Ford Australia's total of Australian made cars exceeded Honda's overall total for the month? Hmm

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Wait, what? So Ford Australia's total of Australian made cars exceeded Honda's overall total for the month? Hmm

No Clearer reason to close Broadie down! Lol

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Wait, what? So Ford Australia's total of Australian made cars exceeded Honda's overall total for the month? Hmm

Yet Honda sold 4mill cars globally in 2012, 1.4mill cars in the US last year, Honda is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world, the largest engine manufacturer in the world and has started building jets.

Alll good arguments to continue building 25,000 loss making cars per year down here.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Wait, what? So Ford Australia's total of Australian made cars exceeded Honda's overall total for the month? Hmm

Now i take you for a smarter person than that. I hope it was a tongue in cheek comment.

In any case Honda may sell less than Ford AU make here but how many RHD cars in that list do Honda make each month?

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Wretched

There is nothing wrong with patriotism but blind patriotism is the problem.
A sedan is NOT practical for EVERYONE.
How can you know what people want in their purchases and then go on to state that they can adapt their lives to a local car they don't want?

How would you like it if I told you the only house you can get is a 1 bedroom unit with a kitchen and a toilet, no garden and no garage, i mean hey it is pretty close to the spec of a larger 3 bedroom house. It should do.

I didn't at any point say that people should only by falcons there, Holden is in the same boat and neither of them only make sedans. there are 4 cylinder hatchbacks and sedans, 6 cylinder sedans and utes and SUV's I the line-up too.Even V8 muscle cars are in the line up, the only thing that isn't there is a dual cab ute which when you think about it, most people don't need the towing capacity or ground clearance or 4wd so they are just a compromise for something else anyway

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

except for dual cab utes we have everything you need in a car with our local product how can anyone say that something else is better suited when most cars are pretty close in spec than something else these days?

Except sometimes our locally manufactured products don't match up with the competition. People have every right to buy the best car they can for the money and not give a second thought about where it's made.

I've driven both the Focus and the Cruze. The Focus ***** all over the Cruze - it's better in every way that matters. Who cares where the Cruze is made. It's not even a local design, we just build it here.

I've also driven both the Mondeo and the Camry, and the Mondeo - even the 2007 MA - is a better car than the current Camry. Why should I buy a Camry when there is a better choice?

Falcon and Commodore - fair enough, there's probably no better RWD sedan for the same money. But the number of people that want to buy large RWD sedans are dwindling, especially when smaller cars are better equipped.

Why are Aussie manufacturing jobs so much more important than others? The Ranger was designed here; the Everest was designed here - why isn't there any focus on them as Aussie cars? The loss of Australian manufactured cars isn't the end of the world and it isn't the end of the Australian economy. In the automotive industry alone, Ford Australia employs about 1100 people in the R&D department whose employment will likely continue past the 2016 manufacturing closure. We also have a sizeable aircraft parts manufacturing industry here - for one, the Boeing 777's rudder was made by Aerospace Technologies of Australia.

[TheSneakiness]

After spending some time in an i30 yesterday and especially coming out of the bus I have it does feel like a good drive, little down on power but for the day to day and offers Hyundai give you wouldn't walk past one.

[olds]

Originally Posted by NX74205

Except sometimes our locally manufactured products don't match up with the competition. People have every right to buy the best car they can for the money and not give a second thought about where it's made.

I've driven both the Focus and the Cruze. The Focus ***** all over the Cruze - it's better in every way that matters. Who cares where the Cruze is made. It's not even a local design, we just build it here.

I've also driven both the Mondeo and the Camry, and the Mondeo - even the 2007 MA - is a better car than the current Camry. Why should I buy a Camry when there is a better choice?

Falcon and Commodore - fair enough, there's probably no better RWD sedan for the same money. But the number of people that want to buy large RWD sedans are dwindling, especially when smaller cars are better equipped.

Why are Aussie manufacturing jobs so much more important than others? The Ranger was designed here; the Everest was designed here - why isn't there any focus on them as Aussie cars? The loss of Australian manufactured cars isn't the end of the world and it isn't the end of the Australian economy. In the automotive industry alone, Ford Australia employs about 1100 people in the R&D department whose employment will likely continue past the 2016 manufacturing closure. We also have a sizeable aircraft parts manufacturing industry here - for one, the Boeing 777's rudder was made by Aerospace Technologies of Australia.

You may have driven a Focus But I've owned one and they are rubbish

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by olds

You may have driven a Focus But I've owned one and they are rubbish

I too own one, actually my family have owned three, LR, LT and LW.
Which one did you have and why was it rubbish?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by olds

You may have driven a Focus But I've owned one and they are rubbish

Cool story.
Ive owned 2 and both are awesome, mind you one an XR5T and the other is a current ST.