Ford to shed 240 local jobs, cut production as demand slumps - Page 9

prydey · 18-04-2011, 02:26 PM

very rarely does a company axe models that are selling. rtv was obviously not viable. they can't continue to make products to cater to the few.

i know its unfortunate for those few that did buy them, but car manufacturers are in the business of making money.

up until 6 mnths ago, i've always had ford wagons. i sold my bf2 egas and bought my fg xr6. i'm leaving on a holiday on friday and have just spent the last hour dummy fitting the boot with luggage to make sure everything can fit. you will never find me whinging about lack of falcon wagon. i understand why there isn't one. being a blue blood i won't look elsewhere either which is why we will make do with a sedan. a territory wasn't an option as they are too thirsty on the juice for an everyday family car and once a year highway cruiser.

so my situation isn't a lot different to many. ford stopped making a product that i'd always bought, but thats life.

Smoke Pursuit · 18-04-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

very rarely does a company axe models that are selling. rtv was obviously not viable. they can't continue to make products to cater to the few.

i know its unfortunate for those few that did buy them, but car manufacturers are in the business of making money.

up until 6 mnths ago, i've always had ford wagons. i sold my bf2 egas and bought my fg xr6. i'm leaving on a holiday on friday and have just spent the last hour dummy fitting the boot with luggage to make sure everything can fit. you will never find me whinging about lack of falcon wagon. i understand why there isn't one. being a blue blood i won't look elsewhere either which is why we will make do with a sedan. a territory wasn't an option as they are too thirsty on the juice for an everyday family car and once a year highway cruiser.

so my situation isn't a lot different to many. ford stopped making a product that i'd always bought, but thats life.

They were selling them tho, just like they were selling Falcon wagons. They do things for a reason no doubt, but I dont believe its always becaues something isnt working, its sometimes because something else isnt working and they want to push it. e.g. ranger.

The amount of councils and governments that have them, I would hazard a guess that RTV was the second best selling ute to XL, their rational was that they were trying to push Ranger, and if you look ranger has taken off leaps and bounds since the dimise of RTV, but that doesnt help people like me who hate rangers (in their current state). The new Ranger may be a different story but I hope they have increased driver leg room.

jpd80 · 18-04-2011, 03:01 PM

The other option would be to offer a 2WD Ranger with either Ecoboost I-4 or better, the 3.7 V6.

Road_Warrior · 18-04-2011, 03:15 PM

I can't see the huge cost to Ford in making the RTV. The parts which made it an RTV are off the shelf bits that could have been fitted by FPV on subcontract. And yes, they were selling them, quite a few government departments in WA had them. It was the ONLY commercial vehicle available in Australia which had a 1-tonne payload, dedicated LPG, modest off road capability and didn't smash your internal organs apart like the Jap utes do.

SEZ213 · 18-04-2011, 03:21 PM

I think it's fair to say (without sounding like an officious ****) that the few who do know what goes on in the likes of corporate world understand that this isn't necessarily the end for Ford in Australia.

We suggest what Ford should have done, could have done, perhaps would have done - the long and the short is THEY DIDN'T. They have made business decisions to suit their business, one person didn't make these decisions, a group did.

Yes, the RTV might have been selling, but what was their return on such a product? Did they end up putting more money into it than they got out of it? Was it profitable enough for them? Possibly not...

Yes, there may be stock sitting in Melbourne 'rusting', but how do you know it's not a different white Falcon to the one that was there yesterday?

You may not like the decisions they've made, but you will have to live with them...

Fev · 18-04-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

very rarely does a company axe models that are selling. rtv was obviously not viable. they can't continue to make products to cater to the few.

i know its unfortunate for those few that did buy them, but car manufacturers are in the business of making money.

up until 6 mnths ago, i've always had ford wagons. i sold my bf2 egas and bought my fg xr6. i'm leaving on a holiday on friday and have just spent the last hour dummy fitting the boot with luggage to make sure everything can fit. you will never find me whinging about lack of falcon wagon. i understand why there isn't one. being a blue blood i won't look elsewhere either which is why we will make do with a sedan. a territory wasn't an option as they are too thirsty on the juice for an everyday family car and once a year highway cruiser.

so my situation isn't a lot different to many. ford stopped making a product that i'd always bought, but thats life.

Have a go at the Mondeo Wagon - the boots in those things are enormous. They're great on fuel, really nice to drive and come standard with a 6spd auto. No LPG but the Turbo Diesel is great.

prydey · 18-04-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

Have a go at the Mondeo Wagon - the boots in those things are enormous. They're great on fuel, really nice to drive and come standard with a 6spd auto. No LPG but the Turbo Diesel is great.

looked at mondeo, and personally the exterior styling doesn't sit well with me, nor does the interior. personally i think my fg interior/dash etc kills the mondeo, but thats just personal preference. also, we were swapping a few cars around. the wife used to drive the family car, but i bought her a focus. i was jumping out of a modified v8, so i still wanted a bit under my right foot.

Road_Warrior · 18-04-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sezzy

You may not like the decisions they've made, but you will have to live with them...

Consumers don't have to live with Ford's decisions, consumers will go and buy another product.

Bossxr8 · 18-04-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I appreciate that a production system is in place, but with the way the market can change so fast and modern scheduling processes I would have thought the current spec is a very odd/old way of producing.

Why is there a a need for this ratio? DASH makes a good point about contracts on parts etc but surely your better off storing parts in a shed then leaving cars out the back. Parts are alot easier to reuse/recycle if not used aswell.

Build numbers are locked in months ahead, as are parts supplies. They have to do this as it would totally screw the suppliers up if they had to chop and change parts numbers day to day or week to week. As far as i'm aware they need numbers locked in well in advance.

SEZ213 · 18-04-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Consumers don't have to live with Ford's decisions, consumers will go and buy another product.

Well, that's living with Ford's decisions isn't it? That's a choice you as a consumer make, but Ford's decisions are based on strategic business plans, not emotion.

If you take a look at Ford as a whole, their EBITDA is just starting to grow again after 3 years of a very bleak outlook, unfortunately there seems to be no individual data on Ford Australia, but I would envisage they are in a similar boat.

Unfortunately consumers want, want, want - the loyalty to a brand is non-existent anymore because we are so demanding. We don't want to wait 6 weeks, we want it now, or yesterday. Your comment is a testament to this fact.

My point is, there was clearly not enough of a support base for the products that you are all pining for now.

You really can't expect them to base their business decisions on what a small minority want...

**Charliewool** · 18-04-2011, 04:06 PM

The question must be: What does the future hold for Falcon?
Some of you guys "in the know" at Broady or Geelong would surely have an idea about it?
By now, wouldn't some sort of pre-production started on FG's successor?
There's been no mention of the next generation Falcon, or even IF there's to BE one?
My belief is times soon up for our beloved Falcon, and that Territory and Ranger are to be the only locally produced. (and if diesel terry flops, just Ranger)

jpd80 · 18-04-2011, 04:07 PM

For all the heartache of unsold products, i believe that FoA is still managing its costs well and
have probably waited as long as they dare before announcing reductions and down balancing.
I have a funny feeling that if sales really start to take off in the latter half of the year,
Ford might be paying for a lot of overtime or looking to increase line speed again.

Fingers crossed...

**Polyal** · 18-04-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The question must be: What does the future hold for Falcon?
Some of you guys "in the know" at Broady or Geelong would surely have an idea about it?
By now, wouldn't some sort of pre-production started on FG's successor?
There's been no mention of the next generation Falcon, or even IF there's to BE one?
My belief is times soon up for our beloved Falcon, and that Territory and Ranger are to be the only locally produced. (and if diesel terry flops, just Ranger)

Current platform will run until 2015/16 AFAIK....perhaps a minor revision after FG2 but it wont be much...so Ford have another year atleast (or two) until they HAVE to make a decision.

There are a couple options being talked about, how much they have progressed into research I am not sure.

IMO Ford NA will see what happens over the next two years with the new models, if FoA cant sell what they have coming up then thats it.

If there is proof of potential then IMO we will get some kind of GRWD concept with local body and interior and use mainly corporate drivetrain and chassis.

Just my opinion though.

Smoke Pursuit · 18-04-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The question must be: What does the future hold for Falcon?
Some of you guys "in the know" at Broady or Geelong would surely have an idea about it?
By now, wouldn't some sort of pre-production started on FG's successor?
There's been no mention of the next generation Falcon, or even IF there's to BE one?
My belief is times soon up for our beloved Falcon, and that Territory and Ranger are to be the only locally produced. (and if diesel terry flops, just Ranger)

Ranger isnt produced locally. It was designed here (the new model) but wont be built here.

Territories future rides on Falcon :(

**Polyal** · 18-04-2011, 04:13 PM

Although in saying that lead up for for entire new platforms/variants is typically 5 years so some decisions will be need to be made by the end of the year I would think.

**Charliewool** · 18-04-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Current platform will run until 2015/16 AFAIK....perhaps a minor revision after FG2 but it wont be much...so Ford have another year atleast (or two) until they HAVE to make a decision.

There are a couple options being talked about, how much they have progressed into research I am not sure.

IMO Ford NA will see what happens over the next two years with the new models, if FoA cant sell what they have coming up then thats it.

If there is proof of potential then IMO we will get some kind of GRWD concept with local body and interior and use mainly corporate drivetrain and chassis.

Just my opinion though.

The reason I raised this is because of not one, but three seperate "little birdies", (2 of who are reasonably long termers at Broady).
All reckon this Falcon platform is the last.

stevz · 18-04-2011, 04:32 PM

Went down barry rd today for the first time in a long while. Now I knew it was bad, but OMG!!! The place is absolutely bursting at the seams! It is full right up to the fence line. The way they are going they will be parking them out on the street soon!

bobthebilda · 18-04-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

Went down barry rd today for the first time in a long while. Now I knew it was bad, but OMG!!! The place is absolutely bursting at the seams! It is full right up to the fence line. The way they are going they will be parking them out on the street soon!

And when they park the cars, the leave the keys in them. Could be a popular way to get rid of cars, if they park them in the street.

jpd80 · 18-04-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And when they park the cars, the leave the keys in them. Could be a popular way to get rid of cars, if they park them in the street.

Nah, some would still whinge and moan about no pre-delivery being done and no warranty...

vztrt · 18-04-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford research when approving the RTV showed the number 1 complaint Falcon ute buyers had was the lack of ground clearance on their utes. Number 1 complaint!

Yet the RTV sold really poorly so much it couldn't be justified....which is a real shame as I really think they are a great ute.

robbo/region15 · 18-04-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

Went down barry rd today for the first time in a long while. Now I knew it was bad, but OMG!!! The place is absolutely bursting at the seams! It is full right up to the fence line. The way they are going they will be parking them out on the street soon!

Lol,keys ignition,wiper arms up,batteries disconected....spent a few days there last month,going over the Falcons on the Soccer field,then the footie oval was next,then the bitumen carpark.......

So,as a Tier 1 supplier to Ford ,we go into Easter not knowing our working days after Easter,ie;how many will we cop this time around?
*Does anyone know if Ford renewed there contract with Toll?

Smoke Pursuit · 18-04-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yet the RTV sold really poorly so much it couldn't be justified....which is a real shame as I really think they are a great ute.

Did it??

Most of brisbane city councils utes at the time were RTV's and most shire councils ran them...

I think Ford made out it was a poor seller to simply drop it and replace it with Ranger.. They had to beef up ranger sales to get it going.

vztrt · 18-04-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Did it??

Most of brisbane city councils utes at the time were RTV's and most shire councils ran them...

I think Ford made out it was a poor seller to simply drop it and replace it with Ranger.. They had to beef up ranger sales to get it going.

AFAIK it was doing less then 100 units a month when it settled, so it was low numbers. I would have loved to see it go to on even till euro 4 release.

I did see plenty of them in QLD but that's were they seemed to be popular.

Joe5619 · 18-04-2011, 07:20 PM

I didn't seen many RTV in Sydney.. I actually thought they where a big flop to be honest... But I dont know the numbers so dont know

BroadyFord · 22-04-2011, 11:57 AM

Nearmap has been updated - photo taken April 6.

Unsold cars as far as the eye can see:

http://www.nearmap.com//

Flat Top · 22-04-2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Probably not, alot of fleet operators (who lets face it are the people who buy cars) have moved away from Ford over the last 12 months, either not being able to get what they use to (e.g. wagon / gas) or finding better alternatives. One of my mates whos a rep has had Falcon wagons for the last 10 years, hes now got a new Subaru Liberty wagon and has said that the company he works for are changing their entire fleet, not because they wanted to but because they had to... I was suprised they didn't go Mondeo diesels but he reckons there was a supply issues, so it was Subaru...

if its that Australian paint company , make em park on the street??

Flat Top · 22-04-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Although in saying that lead up for for entire new platforms/variants is typically 5 years so some decisions will be need to be made by the end of the year I would think.

I think they will rue the focus decision????? better look at getting marketing into action and cut a few Fleet deals. Japanese cars gonna be hard to get in next 6 months (earthquake)

stevz · 22-04-2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Nearmap has been updated - photo taken April 6.

Unsold cars as far as the eye can see:

http://www.nearmap.com//

Fixed

You need to click on 'share' in the top right corner then use that link.

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.66504...h&nmd=20110406

**Fordman1** · 22-04-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

Fixed

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.66504...h&nmd=20110406

Employee Car park, and soccer pitch full

Toll yard not quite full, but storage area at rear pretty full too.

Lookign at those pic's, I reckon we're talking about 3,300 cars there right now.

jpd80 · 22-04-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

Fixed

You need to click on 'share' in the top right corner then use that link.

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.66504...h&nmd=20110406

Thanks for the link, just comparing the 6 April to 29 January photograph,
there appears to be a lot more stock in the latter shot but the difference
appears to be lot less white ones and more blue, red and black.

I dunno, this might have to be a long XR6 $34,990 sale....