Diabetes: Discussion thread.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by b0son

Any diet can. Doesnt need to be keto. It's the fasting that clears liver fat, not the foods you're allowed to eat on the diet.

So I can fast for 2 days then go back to vegetable/seed oils, sugar, processed gains, alcohol, snacking in between meals, having smoothies with 9 oranges in it, Maggi crap, condiments, sports drinks and not have a fatty liver? I'm all for that.

Keto is not a diet, it's how our fore-fathers lived. I shouldn't have mentioned diet because diets never work (my mistake) - most crash and burn and end up putting on more weight.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

So I can fast for 2 days

No. You would be better off doing intermittent fasting as a way of life. One or two fasting days per week, or eating in a small 6-8hr window, skip breakfast, etc. The point is to deprive the liver of any food intake regularly to encourage it to use the fat.

then go back to vegetable/seed oils, sugar, processed gains, alcohol, snacking in between meals, having smoothies with 9 oranges in it, Maggi crap, condiments, sports drinks and not have a fatty liver? I'm all for that.

??? where did I say that? I said it's easy to get the liver to lose fat simply by eating less.

The mediterranean diet probably has the best clinical evidence as a healthy diet. Not really sure why you think the only alternative to keto is unhealthy eating.

Keto is not a diet, it's how our fore-fathers lived.

We've been eating grains for millennia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8

It's worth noting that *NONE* of the long-lived ethnic populations around the world eat keto diets. In fact, most of them eat a large proportion of carbs.

[prydey]

Anyone seeking to lose weight or change their diet to improve their situation, I would highly recommend getting advice from a doctor AND a dietitian, to suit YOUR situation and YOUR body.

Please don't believe everything you read on the internet regarding what the best diet is.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by prydey

Anyone seeking to lose weight or change their diet to improve their situation, I would highly recommend getting advice from a doctor AND a dietitian, to suit YOUR situation and YOUR body.

Please don't believe everything you read on the internet regarding what the best diet is.

I considered my diet healthy and exercise rate above average as I am a landscape gardener. As I got into my autumn years I had put on a bit of weight and my blood pressure was prehypertension.

My GP has practiced over 30 years and taught other GP's for 20 years. After much research he changed the way he treats diabetes and pre-diabetes - obesity / weight loss - fatty liver - high blood pressure - abnormal lipids.

I am sceptical about diets having watched friends yo-yo for years. I have never been on a diet in my life and always believed "all things in moderation" worked for me. After much encouragement from my GP I gave in and tried the low carbohydrate, healthy fat (LCHF) eating approach he prescribes.

I lost 15kgs and have kept it off for over a year. My blood pressure came back to normal levels, I also noticed other benefits like my chronic reflux disappeared. I am still sceptical about diets but can not deny what happened to me eating LCHF.

LCHF eating is not a fade diet and has good science behind the theory.

Dr Paul Mason, weight loss, insulin: https://youtu.be/wBsnk2PtPeo

Dr Paul Mason, cholesterol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKJaQeteE0

Dr Jason Fung weight loss, insulin/hormonal theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKC3hiyLeRc

A Ted talk that came up watching your link b0son https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

LCHF eating is not a fade diet and has good science behind the theory.

Yep, not disputing it. It's particularly helpful for those for whom simple weight reduction doesnt yield an improvement in insulin sensitivity.

I saw a BBC program with twin doctors IIRC, both a bit overweight. One did high carb, the other did LCHF. Both lost weight, but the one doing LCHF had far worse insulin sensitivity. LCHF doesnt necessarily improve your T2D, you've simply stopped consuming the nutrient that produces the symptoms. Fine if you want do LCHF forever, but if you dont?

Dr Paul Mason, weight loss, insulin:

The graph with low carb vs low fat weight loss, misleading because on low carb, you strip much of your body's glycogen reserves. And with that, around 2-3x that weight in water weight. Accounting for water loss, either eating regime gives about the same fat mass reduction.

The graph of mortality stats against saturated fat consumption also arent consistent with most other (much larger) studies. The Nurses Health study (nearly 100k participants) for example showed that replacing some calories with saturated fat increased all cause mortality, however, replacing them with unsaturated fats reduced mortality. So by all means eat fats, but eat good fats. Saturated fats arent good fats, and while nowhere near as bad as Keys said they are, it's worth being choosy.

Dr Jason Fung weight loss, insulin/hormonal theory

Fung isn't even worth discussing. A well-renowned quack who peddles misinformation to sell his books and diet products. So much wrong in that video. Ditto for people like Taubes and Lustig. Google their names and debunked. Nobody that does research in those fields takes them seriously. The insulin hypothesis has been widely discredited for years. Most of these guys simply dont understand basic metabolic chemistry and energetics.

Beware of looking for good science from those with a book to sell, or who can only espouse it on youtube rather than via peer review. As per Prydey, speak to a doctor or nutritionist.

[prydey]

Also worth remembering that not all type 2 people are overweight or have a poor diet.

There is no 'one size fits all' diet.

Diet also doesn't mean trying to lose weight. Diet is simply what we eat and drink.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

Also worth remembering that not all type 2 people are overweight or have a poor diet.

It's mostly indians/asians who fall into this group (indians around 5x more susceptible than europeans, chinese around 3x). Asians are more predisposed to putting on visceral fat at lower BMI than europeans. The other big factor is activity/exercise (insulin isnt the only way to bring down blood glucose, physical activity does too). Sedentary lean T2D sufferers have higher mortality than overweight T2D who are active. So stay active people!

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

Also worth remembering that not all type 2 people are overweight or have a poor diet.

There is no 'one size fits all' diet.

Diet also doesn't mean trying to lose weight. Diet is simply what we eat and drink.

This!

One of fathers best friends developed T2. This man spent a lifetime in professional cycling, either competing or training. This is a 70 year old man that could destroy many younger wannabe's.

So Diabetes can develop even develop in people who have lived a healthy, active life.