Hyundai smells Ford blood

[Jimmyd]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

If you do not support the company with your Loyality than your not really a Ford enthusiast

I am a true Ford Enthusiast/fanatic - I have owned my RS2000 (Aussie built) for 20 years, had a ceremonial burning of 888 merchandise and I bought an AU.....

But competition is critical to survial of any industry, it is a true sybiotic relationship - just think what the Falcon would be if we did not have the Commodore to compete against and visa versa............

Cheers

James

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

And this is exactly what I am talking about, if they do as you say & manage to take Ford & Holden down to such a low point that they just become importers & close down the factories then will you still say its a good thing?

At some point in tiume we all have to think beyond ourselves or this car is cheaper than that car etc.. it is for the good of our great country!

Sorry I just noticed your like 18 & work at a Honda dealership so of course you dont care if Ford or Holden go down the gurgler.

If Ford or Holden require to be protected from competition then the only losers will be the buyers.

The only reason we have the style and performance that is currently available is because of competition from internal and external manufacturers. If that were blocked then the new Falcon GT would be a 150kw 6 cylinder FWD hatch fighting for position against the 155kw 6 cylinder FWD HSV GTS sedan. Both would be hugely more powerful than the NA 4 cyl petrol and turbo diesel FWD Falcons and Commodores.

You don't like these? Tough...... You have no other choices, everything else is either prohibited import or tarriffed out of affordibility.

As far as your personal attack on Damo about his age, attitude and therefore credibility, I have read many posts from both of you and Damo does not look like getting the silver medal.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Jimmyd

I bought an AU.....

i think that one alone quaifiles you as a Ford fan!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by csv8

But they are years away..not within 6 months

The new Territory with diesel option, Falcon V8, LPG and Ecoboost are all due by qtr1 next year.. Not within 6 monhs , but all within 7-9 months!!

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

the santa fe ,dont get me wrong ok vehicle for what it is but it dont handle ,goes ok ,loud as heck, uncomfortable ...built to a price !!! nothing more than a tin can with doors beside the prado

Sounds just like the "Jap Crap" of the 60's and 70's and look where that got em 20 or so years later! They even had to fight against the stain they left on the world after WW II which was still fresh in some peoples mind as well.

Bud Bud.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Sounds just like the "Jap Crap" of the 60's and 70's and look where that got em 20 or so years later! They even had to fight against the stain they left on the world after WW II which was still fresh in some peoples mind as well.

Bud Bud.

Yes & it was crap at the start, nobody back then was keen on buying a Jap car & it took them many years to improve to a point that people started buying them in large numbers.

WWII should always remain in peoples minds, while we can forgive we should never ever forget.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by flappist

If Ford or Holden require to be protected from competition then the only losers will be the buyers.

The only reason we have the style and performance that is currently available is because of competition from internal and external manufacturers. If that were blocked then the new Falcon GT would be a 150kw 6 cylinder FWD hatch fighting for position against the 155kw 6 cylinder FWD HSV GTS sedan. Both would be hugely more powerful than the NA 4 cyl petrol and turbo diesel FWD Falcons and Commodores.

You don't like these? Tough...... You have no other choices, everything else is either prohibited import or tarriffed out of affordibility.

As far as your personal attack on Damo about his age, attitude and therefore credibility, I have read many posts from both of you and Damo does not look like getting the silver medal.

Not at all, if we did not have the likes of Kia, Hyundai, Subaru, Mazda, Great wall etc we would still have many players would we not?

Also if we only ever had Ford, Holden, Toyota & say Mitsubishi all of these makers would have kept up to todays standards I am sure & as for why the Falcons or Commodores would have gone to FWD if we had less competition that just makes no sense as RWD is the older Tech & if I am following your meaning that with less competition we would also have less developed vehicles as a result (which I dont agree with) why would Ford or Holden spend money to go FWD?

What we would have is more cars made locally= more people employed to make them=a local industry that is strong.

As for this so called attack I see I need to expain that also for you is easy really, not many teens have much of a clue about life in general as they lack experiance & also their brains are not fully developed (these are facts & not my opinion) & next he works for a Honda dealer so Ford or Holden are competition, not to mention in what he said he thinks its great if overseas car companies stick it up the local makers (he said this not me) so if you think what he says in his posts gives him a gold medal (and I have looked back over his posts) than it is you my friend who has an issue also.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Jimmyd

Yes, but the AU build quality was a highpoint for Ford Australia......


Case in point – everyone seems to be getting hot and bothered over the FPV Supercharged Coyote engine. This engine is the culmination of a number of "borrowed" technologies. Think back to the first supercharged engine in 1921 (Mercedes), first EFI in 1968 (Volkswagen), first V8 in 1904 (Marmon), first 4 valve head in 1913 (Peugeot), first OHC engine in 1898 (Wilkinson) all packaged in a RWD Front/Rear chassis design from 1895 (Panhard Le Vassor).
Does anyone think twice about how cheap their mobile phones or computers are? Yes, derivative design and mass production is the answer - this is what the "Second Wave" are bringing to the table by leapfrogging the early development stages through observing their competitors and applying basic economies of scale by building for a global market.
Don't forget that without competition driving design and technological innovation we would all be still riding horses.....

Cheers

James

Good History lesson James

You do have some amazing facts & I do not disagree with those at all.

I wonder though can you tell me who actually invented the internal combustion engine, the first production line for mass produced vehicles, electricity, telephones, Guns, Radios, Fridges & the list goes on.

My point being that I am pretty sure you would find none of these things were invented in the east which goes back to the original point that the east are late commers who have done a lot of copying.

Yes they now make some amazing vehicles & electronics but did they actually invent them or have they copyied & in some cases improved?

[Carby]

Seduce XR6 - just reading this thread is all one needs to understand why the local Commodore and Falcon are doomed.........................

[Fled74]

Seduce XR6 - you've made your position abundantly clear.
While some of your points have merit, don't you agree that others here are entitled to opinions different to yours?
Don't you agree that there are ways of presenting rebuttals without making sweeping generalizations based on people's age, what car they drive, or where they work?

We don't all have to be friends here, but we can at least be civil, yes?

[Jimmyd]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Good History lesson James

I wonder though can you tell me who actually invented the internal combustion engine, the first production line for mass produced vehicles, electricity, telephones, Guns, Radios, Fridges & the list goes on.

My point being that I am pretty sure you would find none of these things were invented in the east which goes back to the original point that the east are late commers who have done a lot of copying.

Yes they now make some amazing vehicles & electronics but did they actually invent them or have they copyied & in some cases improved?

Sure, in order listed - Nickolaus August Otto (1862) - first patent; Henry Ford (1913) - first time applied; Benjamin Franklin (1752) - discovered; Alexander Graham Bell (1875) - though works based on earlier publications of Innocenzo Manzetti and Charles Bourseul; Sung Dynasty, CHINA (1250) ; Guglielmo Marconi (1895) based on earlier works of Heinrich Hertz, Carl von Linde (1876), etc.

The East was a hotbed of invention throughout the last two millenia, everything from gunpowder, genades, bombs, the compass, paper, parachutes, crossbows, row crops, rudders for boats, etc - all of which were copied and refined in the West.....

At the end of the day it does not matter who or where something is invented; some utilise the technology as is, other evolve the designs and concepts. As consumers we just get to reap the rewards (both good and bad) of their labour.

Cheers

James

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Good History lesson James

You do have some amazing facts & I do not disagree with those at all.

I wonder though can you tell me who actually invented the internal combustion engine, the first production line for mass produced vehicles, electricity, telephones, Guns, Radios, Fridges & the list goes on.

My point being that I am pretty sure you would find none of these things were invented in the east which goes back to the original point that the east are late commers who have done a lot of copying.

Yes they now make some amazing vehicles & electronics but did they actually invent them or have they copyied & in some cases improved?

Well the gunpowder that is the origin of all firearms is from China.

The oil used to power the internal combustion engines comes from the Babylonians and Persians with various oil powered "engines" appearing all over the world over the next several thousand years.

The first people to use production lines were the Chinese several thousand years ago.

Electricity goes back to 2500BC Egypt with a lot of the theory beginning in Greece and the Parthians (now Iran) were electroplating at least 2000 years ago.

Edit: I see someone else has more info.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

When I read things like is I'm not sure what to make of them.. Personally I think what you are saying is total BS!!! A sunvisor rattling?? Come on.... Please.. What part of a sunvisor would even make a rattling noise?? I've never heard of a sunvisor rattling, let alone 2 of them back to back in brand new cars!! Also, never heard anyting rattle in any car unless you're reving it hard... Do you really get a chance to do that enough times in a test drive, to hear this??

Sorry Joe if you didn't like my post, not. I have no reason to lie, even the sales person put their hand up on the visor to stop it rattling and was embarassed.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

au 2 /santa fe 09 /prado 150 in my driveway....au absolutely kills any build /drive/noise/whatever qualities of the santa fe ,dont get me wrong ok vehicle for what it is but it dont handle ,goes ok ,loud as heck, uncomfortable ...built to a price !!! nothing more than a tin can with doors beside the prado ,even my just sold patrol kills it for build quality ...but it flogs everyone on price ,has lots of options,great warranty and once someone upgrades to a new car the rose coloured glasses come on. so you get a customer and they have no problems or great service to fix said problems and you have a return customer .

im trying to sell mine barely worth whats owed , wont buy another . but will that be the nail for many ex ford/holden drivers that got bad service ,bad resale maybe, just maybe the big ones should look at the keep it simple process and more what the customer wants and things may turn around ... dont want to say it but ...toyota ...you can work the rest out ...my two cents.

I don't agree with you vanman. Ours handles very nicely and wasn't all that cheap ( mid forties ). The diesel can only be heard at idle, it's very quit when cruising and goes pretty good for something that weighs near 2 tonnes. Ok it is a tad uncomfortable on a trip across the nullabor, but i can't complain about the build quality at all.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well the gunpowder that is the origin of all firearms is from China.

The oil used to power the internal combustion engines comes from the Babylonians and Persians with various oil powered "engines" appearing all over the world over the next several thousand years.

The first people to use production lines were the Chinese several thousand years ago.

Electricity goes back to 2500BC Egypt with a lot of the theory beginning in Greece and the Parthians (now Iran) were electroplating at least 2000 years ago.

Edit: I see someone else has more info.

Omg yes the chinese made gunpowder but were not actually smart enough to make a gun were they lol

They did make rockets that they used as weapons though but that is just filling tubes with gunpowder & a wick

Who cares where the oil came from as again they did not make an engine.

I said mass produced vehicle production lines not cement blocks lol

Electroplating is not electricity used to power lights etc

Nice try but no cigar

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Carby

Seduce XR6 - just reading this thread is all one needs to understand why the local Commodore and Falcon are doomed.........................

Why is that?

I know why, because from this thread is clear that people do not really care where they buy there car from or for that matter our local Car Industry.

But I am interested to hear why you think Aussie cars are doomed?

[Carby]

[QUOTE=flappist]Well the gunpowder that is the origin of all firearms is from China.


The first people to use production lines were the Chinese several thousand years ago.



Gee, too bad it only clicked with them in the past few decades that you can advance your economy using this technique.

I would never buy a Japanese or Chinese made car and I couldn't give a Rats if they made the best cars in the world. Any race that that hunts and kills graceful animals like whales for food, and slaughters hundreds of thousands of shark a year just for their fins( these are surely in the 21st century an effront to decency), ain't ever going to see any of my money when it comes to cars - unfortunately for some commodities there are no alternatives, but for cars there is and I'm exercising that right. Those who think that they (JPN CHN) have a right to up hold these customs had better believe that everyone has given up long practised social customs - even headhunters, so there are no excuses, especially when most of the civilised world finds these acts abhorrent.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Fled74

Seduce XR6 - you've made your position abundantly clear.
While some of your points have merit, don't you agree that others here are entitled to opinions different to yours?
Don't you agree that there are ways of presenting rebuttals without making sweeping generalizations based on people's age, what car they drive, or where they work?

We don't all have to be friends here, but we can at least be civil, yes?

As long as I have people directing comments at me I will answer them.
I answer specific comments with specific answers so if other take a certain direction then I must follow & answer that specific statement.

If some on here are too thin skinned to see that what I have said re age is factual & not a nasty attack or that it makes logic does it not for a person who works for another brand not to be so worried about the competition going down than that is not my problem but theirs.

See it is the people who answer what I have said that often dont actually answer the main topic of what I have said but pick one comment here & there that take things off track with me left defending or explaining why I said what I said etc etc

You all should remain focused on the main points & debate them, not omg he said this about teenagers or that about a race of people lol
That is not important nor the main point & is just emotional nonsense.
But yes I will as I have said reply to a particular comment.

And I have never ever said others cannot have a different opinion, all can say what they want as we live in a democracy.
But just as they can say whatever they want so can I have my say specially if comments are directed at what I have said or myself.

I mean nobody has debated me with facts on the age topic, or the damage to our local industry if all of these companies manage to eat away at Ford or Holden, all I get is thats the way it is & welcome to globalization.

Nobody else has said yes seduce I agree as I am also a proud Aussie & am worried about our local industry & our fellow Aussie workers etc

Many may agree with me but may not wish to get involved.

If I cannot stick up for an Aussie Icon (being Ford) on a Ford Forum full of I would hope Aussies then something is really wrong here.

PS: Not that it matters to be honest but where are you from lol

[Jimmyd]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Omg yes the chinese made gunpowder but were not actually smart enough to make a gun were they lol

They did make rockets that they used as weapons though but that is just filling tubes with gunpowder & a wick

Who cares where the oil came from as again they did not make an engine.

I said mass produced vehicle production lines not cement blocks lol

Electroplating is not electricity used to power lights etc

Nice try but no cigar

Scroll a touch higher back up the page you'll see - oh stuff it, why waste the energy

***unsubscribes from thread***

[phillyc]

Wow. Hasn't this gone off topic!

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Jimmyd

Sure, in order listed - Nickolaus August Otto (1862) - first patent; Henry Ford (1913) - first time applied; Benjamin Franklin (1752) - discovered; Alexander Graham Bell (1875) - though works based on earlier publications of Innocenzo Manzetti and Charles Bourseul; Sung Dynasty, CHINA (1250) ; Guglielmo Marconi (1895) based on earlier works of Heinrich Hertz, Carl von Linde (1876), etc.





Cheers

James

Ah yes Henry Ford

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Jimmyd

Scroll a touch higher back up the page you'll see - oh stuff it, why waste the energy

***unsubscribes from thread***

I did before you invited me & it shows me nothing, well in fact it actually proves my points

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Yes & it was crap at the start, nobody back then was keen on buying a Jap car & it took them many years to improve to a point that people started buying them in large numbers.

Wrong, the oil crisis of 73 let the dogs loose, people bought up big. There were crappy 120Y's and 180B's everywhere. Coronas and Corollas were not much better. They were all still crap but they were cheap. They did seduce the market with things like AM FM push button radios but they were still crap but more importantly they were cheap. The next oil shock of 79 just cemented them into the Australian psyche. This time it really hurt Holden as they tried to introduce a smaller class of car and Ford ended up dumping the V8. The real loser however was the big Chrysler. This big sedan gave way to what ended up being a good seller at the time. A Sigma. This car was also crap but they sold like hot cakes anyway. The other shocker that comes to mind is the 2 litre Bluebird Australia's first 4 cylinder Limousine, Yeh right! My point is, people still bought them anyway. Today they are considered well built and great value for money. They are on top of the new car shopping list now.

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

WWII should always remain in peoples minds, while we can forgive we should never ever forget.

No agument here either. Lest we never forget. But don't make the mistake of thinking that the fellow that is screwing on the next door in a Japanese car plant is the same mad man who wanted to fly his plane in to the bridge of an enemy ship either. War is such an awful thing.

Bud Bud.