Lambo seized after mechanic caught speeding

[4Vman]

That mechanic would be my chauffeur courtesy of the workshop for a month if he did that to me...

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by b0son

how has he learnt respect? by deferring the punishment to someone else??? you have a warped view of human nature.

How so?
There has been no mention of what punishment the driver has received (or will receive) as yet.
For all we know he will loose his licence for 6-12 months and more than likely, his job at the workshop too.

That is were (hopefully) the respect will be learnt.

Originally Posted by b0son

what's more likely to instill a change in attitude, punishing the culprit? or splitting the punishment between the culprit and another party?

you seem to be assuming the act of punishing the victim somehow fills the culprit with greater remorse/guilt, sufficient to ensure a lower likelihood of a repeat offence.

i suggest you have no real idea about how the human psyche works.

Oh please, now your being silly.

Again for those that can't seem to work it out - While the owner has not committed any offence, his vehicle was used to committ an offence and so, under the Traffic Act of Western Australia will be impounded for a period of 28 days.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The mechanic should forfeit his own car, and the customer given his own car back, end of story.
Im sure common sense will prevail and the customer gets his car back.

The mechanic will forfeit more than his car.... his licence for 6+ months and possibly his job/career.

[crispymk2]

Originally Posted by b0son

How does punishing the owner help the owner?

Of course, how could we ever expect anyone involved in the law to display an ounce of common sense. They cant see the forest for the trees.

Exactly. The mecahnic is punished via fines and loss of licence which should be sufficient to "scare" him into not doing it again.

If it was some elderly pensioner and the mechanic got her Pulsar impounded how long do you think it would take before they bowed to public pressure and released the car?

Should be no different for the doctor and his car.

Just swap the damn thing over for the mechanics car, justice served...

[silvergsvan]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

"It is clearly written in 'hoon' laws that the vehicle will be taken, no matter who the owner is. -"

that will get destroyed once it goes to court.

making the guy who has no control responsible for other peoples actions.

ridiculous.

"The Law is an ***" but it the law, properly presented in Parliament and signed off.

It seems to me, though, that the car gets punished for not being driven properly. It wouldnt surprise me if a change comes from this, but there won't be compensation where the actions in impounding the vehicle complied with the law.

Pity the owner (even if he does have a lawyer for a brother).

[crispymk2]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Why doesn't the owner launch a legal action against the government for impounding his property?

Why should he have to go to the time and expence of court proceedings?

And on what grounds? The law is clear, the cops have acted within the law the problem is the law itself and to get to the point where you can challenge the legislation in the Supreme court you are looking at 100k+ in court costs + the time + stress = not worth it.

Minister needs to quit being a and admit that it is unjust.

Would struggle to sue the mechanic too in civil court as it would be very difficult to substantiate actual loss and damaged caused through the mechanics actions.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by DJL351

That is were (hopefully) the respect will be learnt.

So why the need to also punish the owner?

Again for those that can't seem to work it out - While the owner has not committed any offence, his vehicle was used to committ an offence and so, under the Traffic Act of Western Australia will be impounded for a period of 28 days.

Noone's arguing that isnt the law - we were arguing the merits of said law.

The mechanic will forfeit more than his car.... his licence for 6+ months and possibly his job/career.

Had the offence been committed in his own car, he'd receive the disqualification AND have his car confiscated. By using someone else's car, he keeps the car, so receives a LESSER punishment.

The loss of his job is incidental and nothing to do with the courts - its a consequence of his actions and shouldnt be considered.

[Neeek]

It's a silly law, and unfrotunate for the Doc.

But for me, a bloke called Neil has taken the cake with this comment on some random website which covered the story, speaking of copper Rob Johnson:

“It’s not something that I’m prepared to change the law for simply because somebody who owns a Lamborghini does not have that car for 28 days...." Said an unrepentent Mr Johnson, conveniently forgetting to add.. "Yes I did write ill-thought out legislation to rush the laws through Parliament. The law is only an *** because I wrote it." Mr Johnson continued to flap his gums to deaf ears.. "Besides, anybody who owns a lamborghini deserves everything they get!. The good Doctor should have bought a commodore or a corolla or something."

[phillyc]

Maybe the dealership should invest in a AWD/4WD Mainline or similar dyno?!

I would love to hear that Gallardo's 5.0L/5.2L V10 at full tilt!!! Even better the Murcielago 6+L V12...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by b0son

what's more likely to instill a change in attitude, punishing the culprit? or splitting the punishment between the culprit and another party?

you seem to be assuming the act of punishing the victim somehow fills the culprit with greater remorse/guilt, sufficient to ensure a lower likelihood of a repeat offence.

i suggest you have no real idea about how the human psyche works.

i suggest you have no real idea about how the human psyche works


maybe the fear of losing a job or business will stop mechanics from thrashing customer cars


once again, the law is the law - instead of complaining about what i cannot change, i am trying to find a positive in it

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by crispymk2

Exactly. The mecahnic is punished via fines and loss of licence which should be sufficient to "scare" him into not doing it again.

If it was some elderly pensioner and the mechanic got her Pulsar impounded how long do you think it would take before they bowed to public pressure and released the car?

Should be no different for the doctor and his car.

Just swap the damn thing over for the mechanics car, justice served...

And where was your voice when this was introduced? (not directed at you as such - other than I can see you are from WA)
This is not new - it has been 'law' in WA for more than 12 months.

No one is in disagreement that the Act/law is wrong. But, the police, government and courts have done nothing wrong in this case, because of the way it is written.

It is much easier to stop junk like this becoming law if you stand up at the beginning - changing once it is in place is so much harder.

Originally Posted by b0son

Had the offence been committed in his own car, he'd receive the disqualification AND have his car confiscated. By using someone else's car, he keeps the car, so receives a LESSER punishment.

So he gets to keep his car..... that he is not allowed to drive?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by crispymk2

Would struggle to sue the mechanic too in civil court as it would be very difficult to substantiate actual loss and damaged caused through the mechanics actions.

Well, it has depreciated at about $50-80k/year so far. So 28 days is probably $5k worth of depreciation. Add $1k for finance & insurance per month.

I would as someone mentioned, be concerned at how they got it onto the tilt tray, then back off again. Scraaaaape...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by crispymk2

Why should he have to go to the time and expence of court proceedings?
...

Would struggle to sue the mechanic too in civil court as it would be very difficult to substantiate actual loss and damaged caused through the mechanics actions.

Depreciation using the ATO's own depreciation formulae, cost of a rental, lost income preparing for and taking the case to court.

It would end up being a significant sum.

And as the mechanic would not have such a sum, either a payment plan would be arranged, further inconveniencing the owner, or in a real irony, the magistrate would say there is nothing to be gained by further punishing the mechanic, leaving the owner to wear the loss.

My money's on the latter.

The owner is probably acutely aware of this and will just have to cop it on the chin. Its what our pollies and legal fraternity expect of the sheeple...

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by DJL351

On what grounds?

i consider that stealing/joyriding. i would call the police if i seen my car being treated like that.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

once again, the law is the law - instead of complaining about what i cannot change, i am trying to find a positive in it

saying you can't change it is a defeatest mentality GT.

but you can change it.

people power can change it.

there is no positive in something that makes criminals out of someone based on someone elses interpretation, or the innocent party is affected in anyway.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by blueluvr

Do what stuff all the time? hoon around on customers bikes, doing runners from the cops? mate, please don't go there.
I have been doing this for over 25 years straight in a lot of different shops, and honestly in that time, I am yet to hear of a wrench do this on a customers bike. Besides, bikes have number plates too you know ;) Or maybe we actually change the plates before we go on our "bikie" hoon rampage of the streets ?????

When we are on customers bikes (and sales bikes), and in most cases identifiable workwear, the last thing ANY workshop (bike or car) needs is a rep for fanging customers bikes on test rides. How would you feel if you found out from a mate who saw your local tuner out there thrashing your pride and joy on the streets? That's prob why he doesn't do it either.

word gets out pretty quick if that's going down, esp. in the bike trade, which is still very cottage. I'm sure there are some that do ride like idiots, but after being in this trade for this long, I have come to notice they don't last long at all......literally. When a modern litre sportsbike does well over a ton in first gear in less time than it takes to fart, you learn to show restraint.

When you do it for a job, it aint about the test rides. As much as you may or may not think it's fun riding around on bikes for a job, it's far from the truth. In reality, we are riding in the middle of congested citys, and as such, we are simply trying to avoid getting run over by you tin top drivers. Car drivers "do this stuff all the time and there's no way they can get caught, unless they stop, not likely" (see what it sounds like when you generalise like you did ;)

We used to service the cop bikes at one place I worked, and a senior mech at the time was taken out by a car in downtown Parramatta who pulled out on him......... he was riding a full dress cop bike ferchrissake!

Sorry for going off topic, but your comment was nothing but a generalised rant.

To get back OT, I agree totally that it's outrageous the owner has lost his car and even your local polly is saying he's not getting it back. If I were the owner, I'd be going the whole hog, and it certainly shows the real world flaws when governments make knee jerk decisions.



Spot on.

Yes maybe I was generalising a bit, but it does happen. Yes they have number plates, but on the back, so here in WA speed cameras can't pick them up.
I know one shop that has a laneway behind it and have seen the mechanics doing mono's up and down the laneway on customers bikes.
Another shop that I have to park near when waiting to pick up my daughter I regularly see the mechanics even with their distinctive company vests on come flying down the road at mach1, pulling mono's and blowing the STOP sign at the end of the street.

I suppose like any business there's good ones and bad ones, so your point taken.

[crispymk2]

Originally Posted by b0son

Depreciation using the ATO's own depreciation formulae, cost of a rental, lost income preparing for and taking the case to court.

It would end up being a significant sum.

And as the mechanic would not have such a sum, either a payment plan would be arranged, further inconveniencing the owner, or in a real irony, the magistrate would say there is nothing to be gained by further punishing the mechanic, leaving the owner to wear the loss.

My money's on the latter.

The owner is probably acutely aware of this and will just have to cop it on the chin. Its what our pollies and legal fraternity expect of the sheeple...

Yeah, I agree. It would work out to be a bit of money but vs the time stress and cost of proceedings it would probably not work out as being worth pursuing.

As I said earlier, if it was someones grandmother stuck without a car to get to church/bingo/doctor would the minsiter be so harsh and in-flexible? I think not, so why can he get away with discrimiating against the doctor just because he has a Lambo?

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

i consider that stealing/joyriding. i would call the police if i seen my car being treated like that.

Unless it stated somewhere on the R/O that the vehicle would not be test 'driven' more than xxKms you'd have no hope.
He gave the keys to the workshop, aware that the vehicle would/could be driven.

Now, if he left his mp3 player in the car and upon picking the car up found it to be missing - then police could become involved to investigate that.


Again, I don't disagree with you feels/thoughts (I'd want him charged with something for sure) - but claiming the car was stolen - thats thin.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by DJL351

Unless it stated somewhere on the R/O that the vehicle would not be test 'driven' more than xxKms you'd have no hope.
He gave the keys to the workshop, aware that the vehicle would/could be driven.

Now, if he left his mp3 player in the car and upon picking the car up found it to be missing - then police could become involved to investigate that.


Again, I don't disagree with you feels/thoughts (I'd want him charged with something for sure) - but claiming the car was stolen - thats thin.

im assuming you have left a car at a workshop before? i understand that a test drive is pretty much a given when ANY work is carried out. but i doubt any reputable workshop would class a 60km drive reaching 160km/hr a test drive. thats just plain illegal on many fronts, and if someone can defend that in court and win, then that isnt the country im proud to live in.

edit- in an earlier post i mentioned DUTY OF CARE, anyone who operates their own business knows they have a duty of care to operate their business within certain guidelines otherwise they are open to prosecution. im sure there are members here who know more than me about this, but i know im right as it is prominant in my own insurance policies.

[DJR-351]

For those of you who disagre with this issue write to your local MP or get a lobby group together, i have sent numerous letters to mine (MP) over the years, but unfortunatly the inbox is usualy pretty low...

Jumping on these forums and making statements about how this needs changing and that is wrong achives absolutely nothing, send your feelings to the one it concerns, it might not get you anywhere but it feels a dam site better sticking to the man than blowing of here....

To those that are quite happy to bend over and be tolerant, understanding, condoning or even agreeing to these sorts of laws in the mistaken belief that it is good for the masses, you are deluding yourselves and deserve to have yourself placed in the same situation, it would be interesting to see how understanding you are then....

Thats my 2 bobs worth on the subject...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

maybe the fear of losing a job or business will stop mechanics from thrashing customer cars

so not confiscating the car somehow protects him from being sacked by his employer? surely being caught would alert the boss?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by DJL351

So he gets to keep his car..... that he is not allowed to drive?

which his spouse can continue to use.

although you raise a valid point - why impound the car at all?

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

For those of you who disagre with this issue write to your local MP or get a lobby group together, i have sent numerous letters to mine (MP) over the years, but unfortunatly the inbox is usualy pretty low...

Jumping on these forums and making statements about how this needs changing and that is wrong achives absolutely nothing, send your feelings to the one it concerns, it might not get you anywhere but it feels a dam site better sticking to the man than blowing of here....

To those that are quite happy to bend over and be tolerant, understanding, condoning or even agreeing to these sorts of laws in the mistaken belief that it is good for the masses, you are deluding yourselves and deserve to have yourself placed in the same situation, it would be interesting to see how understanding you are then....

Thats my 2 bobs worth on the subject...

they don't care until they have a pain in the a** like barnaby joyce or nick xenephon. i not a huge fan of either but i respect the fact they ran on a single ticket platform, and continue to be able to to bleat loud enough to get changes made. nick xenephon was able to affect changes to pokie laws just by being there.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

im assuming you have left a car at a workshop before? i understand that a test drive is pretty much a given when ANY work is carried out. but i doubt any reputable workshop would class a 60km drive reaching 160km/hr a test drive. thats just plain illegal on many fronts, and if someone can defend that in court and win, then that isnt the country im proud to live in.

Yes I have - I've also worked behind the counter.

No one is saying that driving the vehicle at that speed was the right thing to do.

Customer complains of a wind noise at between 90 and 100KPH... nearest road to drive a car at that speed is about 15Kms away. Mech takes it out, drives along said road for 4Kms - then returns to workshop - that a 30+ trip.... so with out knowing all the details - we can not say why he was 60Kms from the workshop.

[jaydee]

Well the Police Minister may back down and is going to change the law in about 12 months. He's still defiant about this guy getting his car back it seems.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by DJL351

Yes I have - I've also worked behind the counter.

No one is saying that driving the vehicle at that speed was the right thing to do.

Customer complains of a wind noise at between 90 and 100KPH... nearest road to drive a car at that speed is about 15Kms away. Mech takes it out, drives along said road for 4Kms - then returns to workshop - that a 30+ trip.... so with out knowing all the details - we can not say why he was 60Kms from the workshop.

he was 30km from the workshop, so a 60km round trip, thats just what i read

[Rodp]

Anyone who thinks the impound is justified has to have their head read.

Most of us drop our cars off for a service on a regular basis. If plod was to come along and say, sorry sir, your car has been impounded for 28 days. Who'd come back and think.. that mechanic is going to learn a valuable lesson, obviously he was just having a blast in my car... justice has been served...?

When we drop our car off for a service/repair, we expect it's treated with respect. I don't expect that when I drop my hi-po car off, that it's a crap shoot as to whether I'll see it in 28 days, or not.

[blueluvr]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

he was 30km from the workshop, so a 60km round trip, thats just what i read

But as I said earlier, we need the whole story on the distance thing, there may be plenty of reasons he was so far aways from the shop. I have had customers who ask their bikes be taken for a decent ride, simply because they don't ride them enough (true) or have a weird problem etc, etc.
There are a thousand possible reasons he was that far away, both justified, and not. I had one guy who wanted me to commute on his bike for a few days to, and I quote: "make sure there's nothing wrong with it" I lived over 30 km from work at that point. I did over 300 km on it. and no, there was nothing wrong with it


Jaydee:

Yes they have number plates, but on the back, so here in WA speed cameras can't pick them up.

Don't they have rear facing cameras over there? We got 'em both ways over here. they tried pushing front plates on bikes due to some fools making a habbit out of giving the bird to front cameras whilst crossing at 260 km/hr, but it didn't pass.

On the subject of those guys doing stupid stuff down the laneway, that sounds like a serious case of poor management. Would you like to take your bike there knowing they do that? Of course not, that's why the hammer should drop in whatever shop that is.

I would have to say knowing the bosses at all the shops I work at, that would be instant dismissal the first time it happened, otherwise you get a culture of it being acceptable. That sort of thing is a great indicator of how the place is run.

Of course, just like the idiots who hoon on dirt bikes up and down my street at 3 in the morning with no lights and sounds like no mufflers, just call the cops, they specialise in that kind of thing!

back on topic again, kinda...... here's 3 scenarios to consider:

1: Mr X steals a police vehicle and gets nabbed for doing 160 in a 100 zone.......does the police car get impounded under the rules? ;)

As has been pointed out the law states the actual vehicle involved will be confiscated.

2: A mechanic takes a police vehicle for a test after repairs and gets done exactly the same as mr Lambo wrench, does the cop car/bike get impounded?

3: Someone steals MY car and gets done for "hooning" do I lose my car? Under the current law, all 3 should be a yes. Now, how utterly stupid is that when you think about it?

You could come up with a thousand of these. It may be written into law, but that alone does not necessarily make it a good law.

[djjase]

Come on its easy to see that

(1) It was a joy ride - some 50 yo mechanic wanted to get his kicks by taking a Lambo for a drive. Prob drove past the local RSL club picked up an old lady and took her for a spin, realised he was late so he put the pedal to the metal and opps didnt realise this car could do 160km in 1st gear.

The owner shouldn't suffer and I hope this is a wake up call for all mechanical shops not to go and take our cars for a joy ride.

This happens also with car carriers, they take cars for joy rides too so the entire industry needs a wake up

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

point number 1 is that if the car is not impounded because of the mechanic, that gives mechanics a licence to drive how they want and risk lives and properties
point number 2 is simple as well - the owner of that monaro that was posted on aff in the last year lost his car permanently due to an idiot mechanic. if this type of case put fear into the minds of anybody testing someone elses vehicle, then maybe our vehicles will be treated with more respect (to late for the monaro owner and no doubt countless more over the years)
how else do you think that getting mechanics etc. to respect our cars is going to happen

your other examples have no logic at all. it is the driver of the vehicle that gets the prison sentence and gets the strike against his name. as for the owner, as long as the car comes back in one piece, then this will just be a story to tell at parties within a few months. sure it is an inconvenience, but maybe this inconvenience will start to ensure his cars and everyone else are treated with respect from now on

Very logical.

Mechanic simply looses his job and gets a new job down the road and looses another customers car! I doubt there would be huge amount of background checks for employment.

Why would the mechanic be overly concerned in facing up to the owner for loosing his car? I'd be surprised if he even faced the owner at all.

Common sense is not a pre-requisite for politics

[mrbaxr6t]

OK lets say you are quite wealthy and own several lambos - you drive like a twat in one get it impounded - catch the bus home and jump in another and do it all again ?

problem I see with impounding the lambo in the case of the mechanic is it leaves the mechanic (regardless of employment) to go home in the same way get in his car and drive like a twat again - only this time he screws up and doesn't get caught somebody dies - impounding the lambo all of a sudden seems pointless and a bit of a cashgrab now don't it?

impounding the lambo does not prevent the crime from re-occuring in this case