If this is a sign of trouble, then Ford Aus are in deep dodo

whynot · 09-10-2008, 11:43 PM

I was chatting to the fleet contract manager in the car park at work today. He asked me how the new G6E was going. He then stated (in a nice way) that I was the last of a dying breed of Ford lovers. Apparently, there are only two FG Falcons in the fleet (and this is a medium sized fleet). They are ordering so few Ford vehicles, they are seriously considering not even bothering to invite Ford to tender next year. Ford’s fleet prices are too high, their resale is excessively low, and no one on the user-chooses list wants one.

The plebes (who are not allowed to have a vehicle of choice) are given either a 4WD diesel, a Commodore Ute, or a Hyundai i30 diesel (see me with fingers down my throat).

An interesting part of the conversation from the fleet dude was a conversation that he had with a major fleet supplier. (I know that this is now a third hand conversation, but, ...) Apparently, the lease fleet sector have been taking a bath on the resales presently available on the BF Falcon. While they are doing their dough on the Falcon, they are more than making up for it with anything that has four cylinders. According to this lease company’s figures, the cheapest motoring available is a two year old Falcon. Their low price more than offsets the extra fuel they use against any four cylinder.

I have a horrible feeling that my next car is going to be a Camry.

(signed,
Rather Depressed)

Scott · 09-10-2008, 11:49 PM

Why wouldn't your next car be a 2yo Falcon?

XR Martin · 10-10-2008, 12:11 AM

Id rather an I30 Diesel than a Camry....

Dezza · 10-10-2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Id rather an I30 Diesel than a Camry....

I'd rather syphilis than a Camry :P

snappy · 10-10-2008, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezza!

I'd rather syphilis than a Camry :P

It's certaintly not good news for ford . It seems that there doing it really tough. I like the fg now not so much in the begining but can't understand why people don't want them. But these are things ford need to adress i suppose.

Can anyone one explain to me why fords ba/bf's resale is so low what causes this .

The Yeti · 10-10-2008, 07:57 AM

we didnt invite ford last time, not on resale (although very bad) but on service put simply it sux they arnt interested in servicing properly or fixing things 1st time at warranty I have the last ford in the fleet, Mazda are our now prefered supplier I'm a ford man but I made the desigion change becasue I was tired of bashing my head against a wall 12 months on not one of my guys has complaind about the service at mazda and the instances of the vehices beign returend for warranty has droped by 70%

**Elks** · 10-10-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezza!

I'd rather syphilis than a Camry :P

Because with the right care, you could one day be rid of the syphilis.

sleekism · 10-10-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yeti

we didnt invite ford last time, not on resale (although very bad) but on service put simply it sux they arnt interested in servicing properly or fixing things 1st time at warranty I have the last ford in the fleet, Mazda are our now prefered supplier I'm a ford man but I made the desigion change becasue I was tired of bashing my head against a wall 12 months on not one of my guys has complaind about the service at mazda and the instances of the vehices beign returend for warranty has droped by 70%

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

loltastic · 10-10-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

It's certaintly not good news for ford . It seems that there doing it really tough. I like the fg now not so much in the begining but can't understand why people don't want them. But these are things ford need to adress i suppose.

Can anyone one explain to me why fords ba/bf's resale is so low what causes this .

Possibly the fact that they're riddled with problems. The FG is no different.

LTDterri · 10-10-2008, 09:39 AM

This is an interesting thread because the company I work for runs a medium size fleet and we poor plebs who are field based book vehicles through the car pool system each and every day....my point to all this is last week as I was walking through the car park I seriously began to notice the lack of Falcons in the yard, 18 months ago it was full of XT's, Falcon Utes, Fairmonts. Last week I realised 3 fords the rest all Toyota's. So if Ford looses all its fleet sales which lets face it keep it afloat, then I agree Ford may be in for some deep Doo Doo

whynot · 10-10-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDterri

So if Ford looses all its fleet sales which lets face it keep it afloat

The interesting thing is ... Ford is treating the fleet purchasers with disdain.

They know the Falcon has its resale value in the gutter. So, their response is to charge full price on the new Falcons “to support the resale value”. The ex-fleet Commodores have similarly poor resale value, however, GMH give good fleet discounts. Toyota gives exceptional fleet discounts, particularly on the vehicles they have to sell (e.g. Kluger).

In my mind, there are a number of issues for Ford, particularly with the Falcon.

1. They don’t advertise their product well (e.g. an EGas Falcon is cheaper to run than a Corolla). Instead, they have their stupid **** adds that soft sells.

2. They have lost their fleet sales with their pricing structure.

3. They have real issues with quality control. And when you go back to the dealer, the dealer ****es you off even more. (Mine has been back seven times now.)

4. The Falcon is female unfriendly. (If you want an example of a female friendly car, look at the Territory. The girls just love it.)

Ford can correct two issues here immediately. One is to get real with their prices. Two is to sack their advertising firm.

ADSXR8 · 10-10-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

Mazda sells to anybody, they just dont have fleet discounts.

Perana · 10-10-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

Possibly the fact that they're riddled with problems. The FG is no different.

huh?!?! Sure they have a few known issues, but hardly riddled with problems..

loltastic · 10-10-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

huh?!?! Sure they have a few known issues, but hardly riddled with problems..

I'm saying that the poor fleet sales of Falcons could be attributed to their poor reliability issues in the past few years from BA onward. The problems seem to be carrying over to each new model... It's just a theory.

**Peuty** · 10-10-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

You "thort" wrong, whipper snapper.

Stefan · 10-10-2008, 12:03 PM

Falcon / Commo poor resale is not new it's always been bad always will. Our fleet supliers actively discourage anyone buying a Ford or Holden for that reason. They Encourage Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda.

I bought my BA XR6 with leather and premium sound with 50K on the clock 3 years old for $16K. Equivilent Subaru Liberty (which my wife wanted) was $35K+. You can imagin which was a better car to lease new 3 years ago.

Six years ago I sold a mitsubishi

wulos · 10-10-2008, 12:39 PM

I know of a fair number of people in places that you would suspect are through and through Ford men that are quite disgusted with where the Blue oval has gone.
The warning signs appeared a number of years back, dare I say it with GP's departure from FoA, they have done precious little to feed the fire, or even maintain the rage for that matter.
There is little sense in rehashing what we see as problems, as the true problem lays somewhere between the Ford Dealerships, and Ford manufacturing, with neither side grasping the concept that they are both responsible for how we, the buying public view their product.
The worst thing is that atm, I don't see much of a change happening unfortunately.

Scott · 10-10-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulos

... the true problem lays somewhere between the Ford Dealerships, and Ford manufacturing, with neither side grasping the concept that they are both responsible for how we, the buying public view their product.

Nuff said...

autolover08 · 10-10-2008, 04:02 PM

It's not just falcons suffering scary resale figures, commodore, maxima, camry V6's magnas and 380's all suffer equally. Anything with a 6cyl at moment nobody wants.
A combination of cheaper mainstream imported 4CYL vehicles like Honda, Mazda, Subaru and even VW. Fuel prices and the user chooser company vehicles have dented the mainstream falcon and commodore company vehicles.

The interesting thing will be if the Aussie dollar keeps falling like it has recently, imported japenese vehicles will become more expensive while exporting locally made vehicles is more profitable.

The Yeti · 10-10-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

Not on the same scale and as were only a 15 car pa fleet ford didnt bend over backwards to help (nor did Holden or Toyota) so the discounts offered by mazda were very simular with out being called a dedicated fleet, this also give us the option to look arround on a car by car basis the oldes 3 vehicels are 2 BT50's (great utes) and a mazda 3 all are not 18months old 1 ute has been back once under warranty the other 2 have only been back for PM servicing as have the newer cars all I can say is for a small fleet like us they are great

05MkIIFutura · 10-10-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

huh?!?! Sure they have a few known issues, but hardly riddled with problems..

hyundai are now building cars with a level of quality that ford can only dream of. Its a fact of life - if you want a large car that doesnt rattle or fall apart, buy an Aurion.

Rock ape · 10-10-2008, 06:15 PM

This is a very sad thread. Im starting to fear for the Falcons future. Ford has a huge image problem and they need to fix that and fast. Ford Australia open your eyes.

GTP534 · 10-10-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAGTp001

This is a very sad thread. Im starting to fear for the Falcons future. Ford has a huge image problem and they need to fix that and fast. Ford Australia open your eyes.

I feel the same way. The FG is a great car but the message is not getting across. From Bill Bourke's time in the 60's and then the 70's Ford was bold; remember "Going Ford is the going thing"? Ford was in tune with what the market wanted. Some spark was re-ignited with Geoff Polites but in the past couple of years it all seems to be downhill. Now it's as though they're ashamed to even call it a Falcon.

boss-290 · 10-10-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynot

or a Hyundai i30 diesel (see me with fingers down my throat).

You clearly have know idea what you're talking about.

fmc351 · 10-10-2008, 07:33 PM

When so many people keep updating cars (unlike when I was a kid, parents bought new, kept it for 10 yrs or more), theres so many 2nd hand low k cars on the market. Yet most in the market are buying new again, so the market is saturated with 2nd hand cars. Add the fuel costs etc, and well Falcon would suffer in that no matter how good they were.

DanielXR8 · 10-10-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP534

I feel the same way. The FG is a great car but the message is not getting across. From Bill Bourke's time in the 60's and then the 70's Ford was bold; remember "Going Ford is the going thing"? Ford was in tune with what the market wanted. Some spark was re-ignited with Geoff Polites but in the past couple of years it all seems to be downhill. Now it's as though they're ashamed to even call it a Falcon.

Good car + ordinary build quality + bad dealer network = no sales.

JAKHMR · 10-10-2008, 08:12 PM

I was eagerly awaiting the debut of a 4WD RS Focus to stick it up the Evo's and Subies. I'm So sadly dissapointed by FORD in going down the front wheel path, :ticking: I am now thinking ''íf you can't beat em - join em''.
My point being, i might be looking for a subbie instead of another Ford:togo:

geckoGT · 10-10-2008, 08:14 PM

These issues are not new with the FG, the storm has been building for a long time. Mix high retail price, low fleet discounts and poor resale and you do not have a hope in hell of attracting fleet buyers. This is not a problem if you manage enough domestic sales to make a profit, but the large car market is propped up by fleet sales.

In the domestic market, large family cars are dying a slow horrible death, evidenced by Mazda 3 being a top seller on V Facts. Take out fleet sales and the falcon/commodore is no longer financially viable. Fleet buyers find vehicles such as Aurion much more appealing as they have better reliability, better economy, better fleet sales and better resale (for now, until the used car market is flooded with ex fleet).

At the present rate, I forsee that the commodore/falcon have less than a decade left until they are not finacially viable to develop.

loltastic · 10-10-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKHMR

I was eagerly awaiting the debut of a 4WD RS Focus to stick it up the Evo's and Subies. I'm So sadly dissapointed by FORD in going down the front wheel path, :ticking: I am now thinking ''íf you can't beat em - join em''.
My point being, i might be looking for a subbie instead of another Ford:togo:

I would strongly suggest looking at the EVO X. Now with a simple flash available from Ralliart Australia, power goes from 217kw to 270kw, and torque goes from 366Nm @ 3,500rpm now up to 500 (!) Nm @ 3,500rpm. Still retaining stock airbox, filter, exhaust, everything. 3 minute job, in and out. $2,800. That'll do 0-100 in mid 4's.

Just a thought.

JAKHMR · 10-10-2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

I would strongly suggest looking at the EVO X. Now with a simple flash available from Ralliart Australia, power goes from 217kw to 270kw, and torque goes from 366Nm @ 3,500rpm now up to 500 (!) Nm @ 3,500rpm. Still retaining stock airbox, filter, exhaust, everything. 3 minute job, in and out. $2,800. That'll do 0-100 in mid 4's.

Just a thought.

Oh yeh, i am looking at that too... and crunching numbers!!

Even if the Focus was under powered & overweight, i was willing to get one if it was 4WD and stay with Ford badge.
Its just dissapointment after dissapointment with Fords decision making lately.