Motor comparo XR6 V SV6

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2009, 08:25 PM

0-100 SV6 6.46
XR6 6.76

400m SV6 14.62
XR6 14.87

Winton lap times SV6 1.48.4
XR6 1.46.0

Economy SV6 13.4
XR6 13.7

Result -Both 8/10 stars

The XR6 ran the SV6 pretty close in terms of acceleration and economy, but suprisingly it slayed it on the track.

Both 6 speed autos.

jasjul · 14-10-2009, 08:32 PM

Interesting comparo. Although they said Holden have gone to "greener" tyres, for less drag on the road. I wonder how slippery they are on the track. In saying that, the tyres on an XR6 aren't the greatest things on earth either.

burnz · 14-10-2009, 08:42 PM

thats not a bad time for sixpotter's over the 400.
wasn't that long ago the eight's struggled to get into those number's.

**cs123** · 14-10-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

thats not a bad time for sixpotter's over the 400.
wasn't that long ago the eight's struggled to get into those number's.

Was thinking that myself. Mid 14s is pretty snappy

**Dave R** · 14-10-2009, 09:44 PM

Six and a half second 100 sprint for the SIDI SV6? It didn't seem that quick when I test drove it. Good results for both cars, particularly the SV6!

ivorya · 14-10-2009, 10:18 PM

What i didn't like was the jurno who did the report gave the win to the Holden on the back of the 6-speed auto. He said it was much better because it had blip-on downshifts and the shift-quality was much better than the ZF-6 speed in the Falc.
Surely the blip is just a ****-thing that isn't in the mind of buyers and whats the go with suddenly calling the ZF a bad box. If i remember correctly, they were calling it the best auto in the world a couple of issues ago.

**Dave R** · 14-10-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

What i didn't like was the jurno who did the report gave the win to the Holden on the back of the 6-speed auto. He said it was much better because it had blip-on downshifts and the shift-quality was much better than the ZF-6 speed in the Falc.
Surely the blip is just a ****-thing that isn't in the mind of buyers and whats the go with suddenly calling the ZF a bad box. If i remember correctly, they were calling it the best auto in the world a couple of issues ago.

I drove one just 2 weeks ago and while the box shifts smoothly, it seems to be confused easily. It tended to take a second or so to make up its mind, particularly hill climbing or sudden jabs at the throttle. There was a noticable lag between sinking your right foot and the following downshift. And ZF a bad box? You've got to be kidding me.

I really don't think there should have been a winner; the cars are now on par and their shortcomings balance out. SV6's interior is no match for Ford's design. On the other hand, the Commodore's body is much more attractive. Then the engines seem to be valid rivals for each other. I don't care what this particular journo says, the ZF box craps all over GM's parts bin special and I'm not just saying that because I own one, I've driven both and the difference was noticable. But at the end of the day, if I wasn't biased, I would jump either direction if I had to choose one.

Swordsman88 · 14-10-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

What i didn't like was the jurno who did the report gave the win to the Holden on the back of the 6-speed auto. He said it was much better because it had blip-on downshifts and the shift-quality was much better than the ZF-6 speed in the Falc.
Surely the blip is just a ****-thing that isn't in the mind of buyers and whats the go with suddenly calling the ZF a bad box. If i remember correctly, they were calling it the best auto in the world a couple of issues ago.

Yeah...because it is. Certainly for a mass produced auto in a cheapish car it is the best. I haven't read the review so i dont' want to say too much but several reviews have come down against the holden gearbox versus the ZF. The GM box is atcually shared with Ford in the US (so called 'corporate auto) and it is well known in the industry that the Ford version is 'smarter'. Moreover, Ford Aus has looked into whether that Ford US auto will feature in falcon (either replace ZF or low spec (5sp replacement)) and not to put too finer a point on it, the ZF was and is still better. Maybe they preferred the GM box on the track??

As for the downblipping...yeah not good enough reason to give it to the Holden.

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2009, 10:40 PM

Was it the Caradvice comparo that said the new GM 6 speed auto is crap?

Anyone who thinks the ZF isn't good enough needs his head read.

**SSD-85** · 14-10-2009, 10:46 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but is this the new SV6? As in with the new 210 or something kw donk ive heard about? I dont know anymore, Holdens engine lineup confuses me.

Windsor220 · 14-10-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

400m SV6 14.62
XR6 14.87

Geez the NA sixes are getting up there. Looks like im going to have to spend more coin on the XR8 to stay ahead

:

Iggypoppin' · 14-10-2009, 11:00 PM

Excuse my ignorance, what is "downblipping" or whatever the guy called it..?
I certainly wouldn't call the ZF a bad box. If it's of high enough standard for german quality cars, then you can't say it's not for an Aussie ford.

ST · 14-10-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

0-100 SV6 6.46
XR6 6.76

400m SV6 14.62
XR6 14.87

Winton lap times SV6 1.48.4
XR6 1.46.0

Economy SV6 13.4
XR6 13.7

Result -Both 8/10 stars

The XR6 ran the SV6 pretty close in terms of acceleration and economy, but suprisingly it slayed it on the track.

Both 6 speed autos.

Funny how 'Motor' managed to get these 0-100 and 1/4 mile times when Car Advice was almost a second slower both to 100 and over the 1/4 in the new Calais with the exact same motor, transmission and passengers. The Calais may be the luxury model and had a 1/4 more fuel in the tank but that really wouldn't make anywhere near enough difference.

Somebody might have a broken stopwatch and considering caradvice got quick times for ALL the other cars they compared it to I think we may have an answer...

Windsor220 · 14-10-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76txcoupe

Excuse my ignorance, what is "downblipping" or whatever the guy called it..?

When downshifting gears, the engine will be given a quick rev to match the gear speeds. Like heel/toeing in a manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

Funny how 'Motor' managed to get these 0-100 and 1/4 mile times when Car Advice was almost a second slower both to 100 and over the 1/4 in the new Calais with the exact same motor, transmission and passengers. The Calais may be the luxury model and had a 1/4 more fuel in the tank but that really wouldn't make anywhere near enough difference.

Somebody might have a broken stopwatch and considering caradvice got quick times for ALL the other cars they compared it to I think we may have an answer...

I would say the times achieved would be on the money. A high 14 has been done before in a Falcon 6. The SV6 is putting out 210kw with a 6 speed so should have similar times to an AU 220 XR8.

Iggypoppin' · 14-10-2009, 11:12 PM

Windsor220: thanks for that. What a purely w***y way of juicing up a car that isn't technically a hi-performance vehicle. That's something I see ricer-boys doing to make sure those girls 3 blocks from where they are heard them as they rocked up.

Swordsman88 · 14-10-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

Funny how 'Motor' managed to get these 0-100 and 1/4 mile times when Car Advice was almost a second slower both to 100 and over the 1/4 in the new Calais with the exact same motor, transmission and passengers. The Calais may be the luxury model and had a 1/4 more fuel in the tank but that really wouldn't make anywhere near enough difference.

Somebody might have a broken stopwatch and considering caradvice got quick times for ALL the other cars they compared it to I think we may have an answer...

It's difficult to point the finger on things like this. As we all know performance testings depends on alot of stuff (the sv6 for example uses a different suspension tune etc.

Then again, it woudn't be the first time we've seen very, ahem, optimistic performance figures from an SV6 commodore that funny enough, after the launch was over, we never saw again....

deesun · 14-10-2009, 11:40 PM

That's something I see ricer-boys doing to make sure those girls 3 blocks from where they are heard them as they rocked up.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ DOOF DOOF BLIP KSSSH DOOF DOOF BLIP KSSSH

mik · 15-10-2009, 01:26 AM

thats pretty decent times for 6 bangers, good gearing is a major help.

Stoney! · 15-10-2009, 02:00 AM

From what I have read the new 6 speed auto in the Commodore 6's is more closely related to that of a VW DSG (or ford powershift if u must) than that of a conventional auto, because it uses a clutch to clutch technology. however its still not a full blown twin clutch auto such as the above mention, this exaplains the blip when shifting also to smoothen out shift quality.

VW DSG's in Audi's, Skoda RS and Golf GTi and R32 also blip the throttle for a faster, smoother shift.... and sounds fantastic!

The 6L50's technology will help it shift a lot faster which helps in fuel economy and performance due to minimal lost power, it just seems at this point in its life it will require more intuitive programming to fine tune the shift patterns themselves.

All in all though a good read, the sooner the pathetic 3.0 gas guzzler is gone the better, apparently a stop gap till they can successfully match the 400nm 2.8 turbo to the chassis (as a small capacity turbo, not a performance turbo) in high end models (such as calais, stato and SV6) and the 3.6 will get shunned down the lineup.

Small capacity turbo's - way of the future.

Stoney!

XR_Strider_GuY · 15-10-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

thats not a bad time for sixpotter's over the 400.
wasn't that long ago the eight's struggled to get into those number's.

This new engine I believed is shared with latest 3.6L Camaro. Even with a detuned 210kw (280hp) to get 6.46 0-100km/h is damn fast. Camaro gets the full 304hp tune persumably with a more aggressive exhaust in the mix. Hmm might take one of these for a spin before I leave.

jasjul · 15-10-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

From what I have read the new 6 speed auto in the Commodore 6's is more closely related to that of a VW DSG (or ford powershift if u must) than that of a conventional auto, because it uses a clutch to clutch technology. however its still not a full blown twin clutch auto such as the above mention, this exaplains the blip when shifting also to smoothen out shift quality.

VW DSG's in Audi's, Skoda RS and Golf GTi and R32 also blip the throttle for a faster, smoother shift.... and sounds fantastic!

The 6L50's technology will help it shift a lot faster which helps in fuel economy and performance due to minimal lost power, it just seems at this point in its life it will require more intuitive programming to fine tune the shift patterns themselves.

All in all though a good read, the sooner the pathetic 3.0 gas guzzler is gone the better, apparently a stop gap till they can successfully match the 400nm 2.8 turbo to the chassis (as a small capacity turbo, not a performance turbo) in high end models (such as calais, stato and SV6) and the 3.6 will get shunned down the lineup.

Small capacity turbo's - way of the future.

Stoney!

It's still a normal auto, the 6 speed auto behind the V8 in the SS has been doing the blip thing for 12 or 18 months. The ZF auto is also able to do it as well. The new Jags with the ZF blip on manual downshifts, so it's just a matter of ECU programming. Hopefully Ford tweak the programming for this in the future.

Wretched · 15-10-2009, 08:46 AM

It was quite a good article to read.
I can't believe how fast these sixes are now.
However what caught my eye was how much faster the XR6 was around the track. It really ripped the SV6.
My interpretation of the article was they never said the ZF was a bad auto at all, it just didn't have some of the features available within the new 6 spd in the SV6, they also believed the shifting was a little better in the Commodore.
I am sure with a new model ZF, Ford can get on top again.
Just because in one issue they say the ZF is the best and another when compared to a more recent 'box it comes second, doesn't mean they hate it, simply put with time comes better products. It happens, get used to it.

4Vman · 15-10-2009, 09:00 AM

I wonder how they would have gone as manuals? especially around the track which suits a manual better.

sly_ba · 15-10-2009, 09:03 AM

As a ZF owner I blip the throttle manually on the down shift anyway...... works a treat. I would not want the car doing it on its own, takes the 'driving element' out of it.

Lukeyson · 15-10-2009, 09:12 AM

lol i can blip my old BTR auto in my XR8 because its so freaking slow to downshift . lol But havent been game enough to try the ZF in the GT.

mcnews · 15-10-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sly_ba

As a ZF owner I blip the throttle manually on the down shift anyway...... works a treat. I would not want the car doing it on its own, takes the 'driving element' out of it.

Really, I would love my ZF to do it. And a V8 with a ZF doing that for you would sound sensational.... Really, it is only a software tweak to do it one would imagine as the ZFs do it in other cars I believe.

merlin · 15-10-2009, 10:33 AM

If you read the ls1.com forums they complain regularly about their 6 speed auto being rubbish and how much better the ZF is in comparison. They say its harsh, dosn't decide what to do in a hurry and is currently being flashed by dealers trying desperatly to fix them. Now if diehard Holden fans can admit this why would this review say something different?

Wretched · 15-10-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

If you read the ls1.com forums they complain regularly about their 6 speed auto being rubbish and how much better the ZF is in comparison. They say its harsh, dosn't decide what to do in a hurry and is currently being flashed by dealers trying desperatly to fix them. Now if diehard Holden fans can admit this why would this review say something different?

Is it the same gearbox as previous model VEs?
Or is it the same with some small updates here and there?

FPV8U · 15-10-2009, 11:18 AM

How do you blip on a downshift in an Auto?

Guess you left foot braking?

As Mcnews said A6 with Rev Matching software in FGII would be a selling point for sure and sound sensational.

The A6 6 packs agre getting mighty quick, one miss shift or a dead average launch at he drags and they will have a stock 8 or 6T for that matter.

Smoke Pursuit · 15-10-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Is it the same gearbox as previous model VEs?
Or is it the same with some small updates here and there?

Same box with some updates..

We have a VE 6 Litre Calais and its a terrible gearbox, very laggy and doesnt ever know what it wants to do..

Last service we got it updated and its fixed now!