GM VP Design gives thumbs up to VF Commodore

LeadFoot81 · 09-03-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoAuto eNews

GENERAL Motors vice-president of global design Ed Welburn has given the thumbs up to the next-generation Holden Commodore and confirmed that the Australian-designed Cruze hatch is being seriously considered for North American sale. Mr Welburn – an unabashed fan of the Holden Design team – told GoAuto at the Geneva motor show last week that he visited Australia last month to check on progress of the latest projects underway at Holden’s design studio in Melbourne. Asked if he saw the next Commodore, designated VF and due in 2014, he replied: “I did, and it’s the absolute right Commodore for that market. “I feel very good about it. We will have to change subjects – I can’t stand still thinking about that car.”Mr Welburn refused to be drawn on the possibility of a Chevrolet version of either the VF Commodore or next Holden Caprice for general sale in the United States alongside the specialised Caprice Police Patrol Vehicle (PPV) that is based on the current generation.
However, he did disclose that Holden was working on Chevrolet models for global markets, alongside the next Commodore. “They are doing work for Holden and for other projects around the world,” he said. “They are a very talented team – very talented – and I want to take full advantage of that.

Thoughts? Does this mean a new/updated RWD Commodore is a certainty in 2014 or does this relate to the styling direction of the next model irrespective of layout?

bobthebilda · 09-03-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Thoughts? Does this mean a new/updated RWD Commodore is a certainty in 2014 or does this relate to the styling direction of the next model irrespective of layout?

2014 for VF commodore. that will make the VE an 8 year old model.

When he says

Quote:

that he visited Australia last month to check on progress of the latest projects underway at Holden’s design studio in Melbourne

he means, with out all this government bailout of the defunct company I work for, I would have had to pay for the ticket out of my own money.

And when he says

Quote:

I can’t stand still thinking about that car.

he means, everytime he thinks about it, he almost starts to pi$$ his pants.

But then again, maybe I am just a cynic, and I go back to 2008 when Reuss was saying Holden was quite a profitable company, and now we start to learn that it was basically about to go under. Everytime I see a Holden media release now, I tend to think "show me"

Road_Warrior · 09-03-2011, 06:47 PM

Styling direction brah

I think you'll find it will be a heavily revised Zeta/VE (which I suspect will get a decent facelift next year).

chrisfpv · 09-03-2011, 07:03 PM

This means we could see an E4 and E5 HSV after all. What more can they do?

genebaby · 09-03-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8-WORKN

This means we could see an E4 and E5 HSV after all. What more can they do?

They have Homer Simpson on hot stand by for design ideas. He's not finished with it yet!

Venomous1 · 09-03-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genebaby

They have Homer Simpson on hot stand by for design ideas. He's not finished with it yet!

haha! good one.

chrisfpv · 09-03-2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genebaby

They have Homer Simpson on hot stand by for design ideas. He's not finished with it yet!

jpd80 · 09-03-2011, 09:55 PM

Well we know what GM have decided, it will be a heavily revised and lightened RWD Commodore.

If Ford are not prepared to go with Holden and do another RWD Falcon, then they should just say so.
Forget the secrecy and just tell people what the plan is going forward and bring some certainty.
If there is to be a major change then start getting people used to it now and save a lot of pain.

FPV GTHO · 09-03-2011, 10:45 PM

Its a bit 6 of one, half a dozen the other, but at least Fords secrecy with the press has saved them any embarrasment so far. GM let everyone know VE would have an all new skin by 2012 at launch, now the model designation that was supposed to be the 2008 one will be the 2014 one?

Ford may only announce their plans right about when the product will be launched, but their current track record compared to GM will probably have that product a generation ahead.

dannyhilton · 09-03-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genebaby

They have Homer Simpson on hot stand by for design ideas. He's not finished with it yet!

Love it! Perhaps they could add an airhorn, to warn people of an approaching HSV...

LeadFoot81 · 09-03-2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well we know what GM have decided, it will be a heavily revised and lightened RWD Commodore.

I always assumed this would be the case; the VE platform was all new at launch, wheras FGs roots hark back to AU.

Resurrection · 09-03-2011, 11:36 PM

Zeta may be replaced by Omega.

Road_Warrior · 09-03-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

FGs roots hark back to AU.

How so?

LeadFoot81 · 10-03-2011, 12:01 AM

The BA was based on a heavily revised AU platform, and then the FG top hat went over an updated B series platform. So there's stuff lurking under the skin that harks back to AU, some out of sight out of mind engineering type stuff.

SteveJH · 10-03-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

The BA was based on a heavily revised AU platform, and then the FG top hat went over an updated B series platform. So there's stuff lurking under the skin that harks back to AU, some out of sight out of mind engineering type stuff.

How much though? Rear IRS went with BA, front with FG.

New gearbox, new engine, longer wheel base, new body shell.

Whats left?

MexicanBatman · 10-03-2011, 12:35 AM

I hear the reciprocating piston engine in my FG dates back as far as the 1800's

And don't get me started on the wheel..... You'd think I buy a car in 2010 expecting new technology and I get this....

flappist · 10-03-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

How much though? Rear IRS went with BA, front with FG.

New gearbox, new engine, longer wheel base, new body shell.

Whats left?

Front IRS?

FPV GTHO · 10-03-2011, 01:11 AM

I think by FG you'd be looking at single digit percentage figures for carryover between AU. From what i know:

BA had flatter roof while retaining doors, FG all new there

BA flatter rear floor to accomodate standard IRS, FG probably heavily based off that

FG new firewall structure. Not sure though what else to accomodate new front suspension.

I think youre left looking at whatever structures tie in the front and rear suspension modules.

billy302 · 10-03-2011, 02:45 AM

Well I'm a died in the wool Ford Fan, But you have to admit the VE Commodore isn't bad in V8 trim anyway. Those L series engines are very good and are well proven. There are lots of them out there with turbos and superchargers on them and can easily churn out 800 hp+.
Before you can defeat an opponent you have to know their strengths and weaknesses.
To say the Holden is rubbish is just not true. I wouldn't own one but they are not bad either.

jpd80 · 10-03-2011, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think by FG you'd be looking at single digit percentage figures for carryover between AU. From what i know:

BA had flatter roof while retaining doors, FG all new there

BA flatter rear floor to accomodate standard IRS, FG probably heavily based off that

FG new firewall structure. Not sure though what else to accomodate new front suspension.

I think youre left looking at whatever structures tie in the front and rear suspension modules.

And that's the difference, Ford evolves their Falcon through rolling changes so that most of the parts
change over 7-8 years but people swear blind there's more carry over than is actually the case...

SteveJH · 10-03-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Front IRS?

I assume I should have specifically said IFS then? I was actually thinking about the steering setup though.

aussie muscle · 10-03-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

2014 for VF commodore.

here's a sneak peak

MexicanBatman · 10-03-2011, 11:13 AM

and word is the coupe will be back, monaro 2 anyone

btw this was mine

NickosBF2XRT · 10-03-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

I always assumed this would be the case; the VE platform was all new at launch, wheras FGs roots hark back to AU.

FG harks back to AU?? You serious?

LeadFoot81 · 10-03-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickosEL

FG harks back to AU?? You serious?

Yes, the platform that the car is built has a tiny little bit of AU left, wheras the VEs platform was all new and didn't share anything with VT. This has come about because Ford spent so much on turning AU into BA that on an engineering level it was the FG mk 0.5. To put it in a simple, sloppy way FG platform is BA with Territory front suspension. And the very heavily revised BA began life as an AU.

I'm no engineer, but obviously the fact FG platform is effectively 'pretty old' (which ATM does not make it inferior or less value for many than the VE) and that makes it a prime candidate to be replaced (moreso because of the One Ford culling) wheras the billion dollar baby hasn't been around too long and needs to be (in terms of paying for itself) and can be (in terms of engineering options) milked some more.

psychoticgroove · 10-03-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

I hear the reciprocating piston engine in my FG dates back as far as the 1800's

And don't get me started on the wheel..... You'd think I buy a car in 2010 expecting new technology and I get this....

i hear ya

Gobes32 · 10-03-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Yes, the platform that the car is built has a tiny little bit of AU left, wheras the VEs platform was all new and didn't share anything with VT. This has come about because Ford spent so much on turning AU into BA that on an engineering level it was the FG mk 0.5. To put it in a simple, sloppy way FG platform is BA with Territory front suspension. And the very heavily revised BA began life as an AU.

I'm no engineer, but obviously the fact FG platform is effectively 'pretty old' (which ATM does not make it inferior or less value for many than the VE) and that makes it a prime candidate to be replaced (moreso because of the One Ford culling) wheras the billion dollar baby hasn't been around too long and needs to be (in terms of paying for itself) and can be (in terms of engineering options) milked some more.

Maybe 10% maximum of AU in FG, and even then you are talking generic parts such as bracing etc. In fact, there are very few jobs that run with blue dies ( AU ). The fact that FG is the first Falcon with a one piece bodyside should alert you as to how much things changed from BF to FG.

EgoFG · 10-03-2011, 02:27 PM

Where where these people that compare FG to AU when Holden did the VN-VZ series ?

Road_Warrior · 10-03-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Yes, the platform that the car is built has a tiny little bit of AU left, wheras the VEs platform was all new and didn't share anything with VT. This has come about because Ford spent so much on turning AU into BA that on an engineering level it was the FG mk 0.5. To put it in a simple, sloppy way FG platform is BA with Territory front suspension. And the very heavily revised BA began life as an AU.

I'm no engineer, but obviously the fact FG platform is effectively 'pretty old' (which ATM does not make it inferior or less value for many than the VE) and that makes it a prime candidate to be replaced (moreso because of the One Ford culling) wheras the billion dollar baby hasn't been around too long and needs to be (in terms of paying for itself) and can be (in terms of engineering options) milked some more.

The only part of the body structure that was carried over from AU to BA was the passenger cell, doors, and floor. Engine bay box and rear section was changed to accommodate 1) new engines and 2) the Control Blade IRS. You will also note that the track and wheelbase of the BA was different to the AU.

With the introduction of the BF, the floorpan was changed to accommodate the ZF transmission, hence eradicating the first remnant of EA169.

With the introduction of the FG, all external sheetmetal was new (so bye-bye AU/BA/BF passenger cell and doors), the front end structure was new to account for the new steering and suspension changes and layout (similar design to Territory, but not the same gear) which leaves the BF's floorpan and the BA-era rear section which in itself saw some changes for the new car.

It is a constantly evolving platform, it may not be "all new" deal straight off the bat (which in itself means little to Joe Public) but with every model change there is more evolution where the DNA of old platforms becomes less and less. Suffice to say there is no AU in the Falcon today, but the basic principle remains the same, as it always has since day 1.

This evolutionary process means the Falcon is a thoroughbred RWD platform instead of a 'bitsa' or hand-me-down like Commodore platforms of past.

EFFalcon · 10-03-2011, 03:03 PM

an 8 year old design commdore will still outsell a brand new Falcon :/