Mercedes-Benz to return to straight six engines

Blue_XR · 28-10-2011, 09:01 AM

I was reading through car advice and I thought this was quite interesting.

Quote:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/143292/m...t-six-engines/

Mercedes-Benz is thinking of returning to its roots and adopting straight six engines to its vehicles. This will be a big change over the existing V6 layouts that have been on offer for the past 15 years or so.

Mercedes-Benz has been using V6 engines since around 1996 while it has always been BMW that has used the inline six-cylinder layout. But things are about to change. It is believed both diesel and petrol V6 engines will be discontinued in the next four years, making way for turbocharged straight-six units.

According to a source from Mercedes-Benz engineering departments talking with CAR in the UK, Mercedes-Benz has signed off on a range of next-generation engines. These include a range of small four-cylinder units as well as a new lineup of small V8 engines, including a 4.0-litre turbocharged V8, as well as new inline sixes.

Like the current crop of V6 engines, the new inline sixes will power some of Mercedes-Benz’s larger cars, such as the Mercedes-Benz E-Class variants and M-Class and M-Class derived SUVs.

The range of new engines have apparently been signed off for release in 2015.

What do you think? Could this be a good move by Mercedes-Benz? Let us know in the comments section below.

chevypower · 28-10-2011, 09:07 AM

It's just a small step toward the inevitable demise of the internal combustion engine. GTDI seems to be a good technology in the interim, whatever the block configuration.

Mr Hardware · 28-10-2011, 10:43 AM

It doesn't say why, however.

jpd80 · 28-10-2011, 12:00 PM

2015 is far enough away for people to have completely forgotten this rumor, MB has just released two V6 engines.....

2011G6E · 28-10-2011, 03:54 PM

Doesn't make sense...packaging in modern vehicles demands a low front to the car for required pedestrian impact safety standards (throw the person onto the bonnet rather than smack them down in front of the car to be run over), and for aerodynamics as well, even though on a road car at road speeds (in Australia, not autobarn-filled Germany) you may as well have a car shaped like a brick. "Aerodynamics" are actually about reducing wind noise rather than affecting fuel economy in any measurable way on a road going family car.
A V6 meets these requirements, whereas a straight six produces all sorts of problems...unless it's a slant six...

tranquilized · 28-10-2011, 05:55 PM

This was reported in Wheels magazine;

Quote:

Frankfurt motor show 2011 started for Wheels with a triple expresso and 7:00am breakfast with a friendly Mercedes Benz engineer, who insisted on meeint in the anonymity of the main train station. He had our correspondent chocking on his croissant with details of the next M-B engine generation, just signed off for release in 2015. Who would have epected the V6 (deisel and petrol) is on its way out, as M-B revives the in-line six, much shorter and lighter than the old engines, in single and twin turbo guise. The reasons? History, commonality with future Nissan/Infinity models, and stronger differentiation from Audi.

**DFB FGXR6** · 28-10-2011, 07:25 PM

Perhaps the advantage of the Inline six will be it can be easily made along side inline 4's and 3's?

phillyc · 28-10-2011, 07:35 PM

Turbocharging is much easier on a i6 compared to a v6.

Forced induction will effectively be the way to meet car buyer performance requirements, but most importantly economy regulations.

Using an inline 6 also makes designing off that an i3 and i4 that much easier.

Edit: I see that DFB has mentioned the i3 and i4 references too.

Bossxr8 · 28-10-2011, 08:59 PM

The Merc V6 has never been considered a good engine, its always been spoken of as being inferior to the BMW I6. I think they have finally given up on it and will switch back to the I6, which they had great success with.

As others have said it makes turbocharging so much simpler.

Also provides good ammo for the tools that think V6's are superior to I6's.

Paxton · 28-10-2011, 09:36 PM

I find myself digging out this Gem every couple of years when the I6 vs. V6 debate flares here at AFF. It's from a Wheels Magazine from about 1996.

nasss92 · 28-10-2011, 10:03 PM

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11338099

thers some links in the top of the page in my thread here on I6 vs. V6 vs. flat6

will be interesting to see what justification Merc gives to releasing a straight 6 ... help give the barra a better case to ONE ford

SteveJH · 28-10-2011, 11:08 PM

I find it interesting that they use commonality with Nissan as a reason.

Does that mean Nissan are considering going back to their I6 engines as well?

Paxton · 28-10-2011, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I find it interesting that they use commonality with Nissan as a reason.

Does that mean Nissan are considering going back to their I6 engines as well?

I wouldn't think so. Nissan's current crop of V6 (VQ) engines are probably the best in the world.

Bossxr8 · 29-10-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I find it interesting that they use commonality with Nissan as a reason.

Does that mean Nissan are considering going back to their I6 engines as well?

I found that to be a strange comment considering Nissan don't even use I6's anymore. But maybe they are considering going back to them.

4.0i OHC · 30-10-2011, 12:09 AM

It's like a middle-aged man having a mid-life crisis; ditching your wife for some seemingly attractive 20 year old, and then finding out she's high maintanence, performs badly in bed, and is simply a handful to deal with. Then you realise what you've been missing out on, and you shouldn't have left your loving and supportive wife in the first place.

Well done Mercedes-Benz. Nice to see this deviance of the past 15 years is soon coming to an end, and you're now back to where you should be. Let's see if the team at Mercedes-Benz can replicate the quality control standards of 20 years ago as well

4.0i OHC · 30-10-2011, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I found that to be a strange comment considering Nissan don't even use I6's anymore. But maybe they are considering going back to them.

I grew up lusting after Falcons, BMWs and Skylines. Please bring back the inline six for the next Skyline GT-R Nissan

4.0i OHC · 30-10-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Merc V6 has never been considered a good engine, its always been spoken of as being inferior to the BMW I6. I think they have finally given up on it and will switch back to the I6, which they had great success with.

As others have said it makes turbocharging so much simpler.

Also provides good ammo for the tools that think V6's are superior to I6's.

Without mentioning the harshness and gutlessness, the Merc V6 (at least the 3.2 litre) seems to spit out head gaskets.
How would I know? I learned how to drive in a car equipped with a Merc 3 valve V6 (how's that for sympathy seeking?) It happened to that very car, at a mileage that most Falcon drivers would consider to be 'just run in'.
Edit: Apparently that's also a problem with the I6 it replaced.

Motorbreath310 · 30-10-2011, 08:50 AM

I think it makes sense economically, given production lines and plant can be shared between I6's and I4's. Perhap having a simpler layout means it's easier to implement new technologies as well?

Would it be possible to run electric-powered remote ancillaries? or even have a flat bracket with pulleys attached that drive pumps mounted toward the firewall? this would solve some of their length and passive safety problems I would think?

p.s never driven a V6 that I liked. The ones that I've sampled have all sounded thrashy and had no torque.

2011G6E · 30-10-2011, 08:55 AM

It'll have to be laid over to some extent because of current and coming euro crash compliance laws...as I said, for pedestrian safety requirements.

Be good to see them with a straight six...I've always been a big fan of any straight six...even if none of them can hold a candle to the Valiant 265 hemi...

smoo · 30-10-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

I find myself digging out this Gem every couple of years when the I6 vs. V6 debate flares here at AFF. It's from a Wheels Magazine from about 1996.

Too right, every V6 around is the product of the bean counter and nothing more. Not to say they aren't good, just stating a fact. Current Mercedes V6 is a 90 degree V8 block with two cylinders cut off.
One of Mercedes sweetest engines is the old 6500rpm M110 2.8 dohc straight 6 from the 1970s. Back when they were the best in the world, built to a standard not a budget.

JG34JA · 30-10-2011, 09:50 PM

Inline 6 FTW

2011G6E · 31-10-2011, 06:19 AM

I don't think it's "bean counters" as much as relatively ease of design from an existing V8 (but really a miniscule amount are simply some V8 with "two cylinders lopped off", most are a stand-alone engine) and also better packaging...a shorter, lower engine, which means more space can be shovelled into the passenger compartment and also helps tune the handling, if that's important to the model you're building.