whats a better package???

[XR6 Hulk]

Whats a better motor Ford Windsor 302 (EB-EL) or Holden injected 5.0 (VN-VS). Assume both motors are in a Fairmont Ghia and Calais 95 model. Which car is quicker....

1. Standard
2. If spend $1500 on each
3. If spend $3000 on each?

[apolloxbgt]

What answer are you expecting on a FORD forum???

[T3ts50]

IMO the Holden 5.0 breathes a lot easier than the E-series Ford 5.0. The Fords are very restricted and you need to spend a bit of money on them to get them breathing better.

The Holdens of that era were also lighter and are very quick off the mark.

[XR6 Hulk]

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

What answer are you expecting on a FORD forum???

I would expect a fair answer. We should call a spade a spade

[Powdered Toast Man]

I'd have to say the Holden V8 would be quicker. You will need some serious cash to make a Windsor very quick but it can be done.

But for the total package the Fairmont Ghia is a much nicer car.

[DayTE]

I'd have to agree that the Holden probably come out on top. Mainly for the reason that a lot of go fast bits for their engins are cheaper and more readily available than for the Ford 5l. I used to own a EB Fairmont 5l and a mate owned a VR 5l, and we were pretty much modding our cars about the same at the same time. Whatever we did the same we used to compare costs and his was always cheaper. And easier to get hold of.

[The Yeti]

what are you doing? what are they going in?

[RG]

Originally Posted by XR6 Hulk

Whats a better motor Ford Windsor 302 (EB-EL) or Holden injected 5.0 (VN-VS). Assume both motors are in a Fairmont Ghia and Calais 95 model. Which car is quicker....

1. Standard
2. If spend $1500 on each
3. If spend $3000 on each?

Stock it would have to be the Holden.

$1500 would get you a second hand Explorer manifold and some GT40p heads on here, that is provided you do all the work. I'd pick the Ford here.

$3000 is same as above plus cam and tuning I'd think. You could get it up to 220fwkw using a second hand cam from a 220 AU XR8.

[TZENU]

Bang for Buck the Holden will do it..

Have heard that the 5.0ltr Holden heads are superior to the windsor heads... Is anybody able to confirm that????

[|||]

go the holden. gmh always had the upper hand in the fuel injected windsor days

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by TZENU

Bang for Buck the Holden will do it..

Have heard that the 5.0ltr Holden heads are superior to the windsor heads... Is anybody able to confirm that????

Stock for stock,definatly.

Edit,VN heads are reputed to be able flow over 400hp standard.

[JC]

I'd say there's not much in it at all, but I'd say the Ford would be in front. V8 Supercars still use the 5.0 of each brand, and IIRC, the Holden/Chev motor had to have redesigned heads to enable them to produce similar power and torque as the ford at similar revs etc.

[XR6 Hulk]

I think because the fords are heavier they have to have the ridiculous long gears in them for fuel economy purposes to offset the weight. that just makes them even slower.

I think stock, holdens are faster but with a bit of work i think the fords run over the top of them.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by JC

I'd say there's not much in it at all, but I'd say the Ford would be in front. V8 Supercars still use the 5.0 of each brand, and IIRC, the Holden/Chev motor had to have redesigned heads to enable them to produce similar power and torque as the ford at similar revs etc.

The only thing v8 supercars have in common with an ef or vs,is the capacity.
The holden race cars dont use 304 holden engines,they use chevs.The fords don't use ho 302's,the use motorsport blocks filled with the best parts money can buy and have absolutely no bearing on 10 year old street cars.

As I said STOCK for STOCK, 304>302.It's all in the heads,the efi 304's heads are excellent stock,the efi 302 with stock heads struggle to make the piddly 165kw (i know the 304 is rated at the same kw stock).

Even when you start to mod,with a 304 you can throw a cam,exhaust and extractors at them and see significant gains,with the ford you need to dump the heads, manifold,tb,etc etc,basically the whole top end of the motor.

I love fords,but imo the windsors wern't much chop untill au2,but thats not what we're talking about.

I would say anyone who thinks an early efi wheezer is faster standard and cheaper to mod than a 304 either hasn't driven a commodore v8,or tried modding there wheezer.

But as I said at the top,what do you expect the answer to be on a ford forum,go ask this question on ls1.com and see what answer you get there.

[RG]

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

The only thing v8 supercars have in common with an ef or vs,is the capacity.
The holden race cars dont use 304 holden engines,they use chevs.The fords don't use ho 302's,the use motorsport blocks filled with the best parts money can buy and have absolutely no bearing on 10 year old street cars.

As I said STOCK for STOCK, 304>302.It's all in the heads,the efi 304's heads are excellent stock,the efi 302 with stock heads struggle to make the piddly 165kw (i know the 304 is rated at the same kw stock).

Even when you start to mod,with a 304 you can throw a cam,exhaust and extractors at them and see significant gains,with the ford you need to dump the heads, manifold,tb,etc etc,basically the whole top end of the motor.

I love fords,but imo the windsors wern't much chop untill au2,but thats not what we're talking about.

I would say anyone who thinks an early efi wheezer is faster standard and cheaper to mod than a 304 either hasn't driven a commodore v8,or tried modding there wheezer.

But as I said at the top,what do you expect the answer to be on a ford forum,go ask this question on ls1.com and see what answer you get there.

This man knows what he is on about. Windsors are still pretty expensive to mod, especially E series ones. That's even getting your parts from the states and doing the work yourself. Problem with the E series V8 is exactly what has been said above, the entire top half of the thing.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

Problem with the E series V8 is exactly what has been said above, the entire top half of the thing.

You forgot to mention the bottom half as well :P

[XR6 Hulk]

I like your signature.... mmmmmemories.

Once I had a girl in the backseat, her footprint was on the back rear window. I left it there for a while used to have a look at it in the rear view mirror for a quick chuckle.

Then I was seeing another chick who noticed it and asked a few questions. Needless to say I didnt get her footprint on the back window (that night)

[RG]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

You forgot to mention the bottom half as well :P

That helps too, really helps infact!

[XCSEDAN]

my best mate has an EB2 XR8, EL GT Headers, twin 2.25" exhaust
a guy from his work had a VN 5LT extractors and twin 2.25" exhaust as well
when they dragged it was pretty much neck and neck. (both manuals too)
they never raced each other stock so i can't comment there, but the XR8 picked up probably 15kw alone from upgrading from single 2.5" to twin 2.25" which is pretty darn good.
the top end on the E-series 5lt are CRAP, you need GT40P heads, and explorer intake manifold and AUII/III XR8 intake setup to see some decent gains. then i suppose next thing would be cam.
would be able to get 240+kw out of that pretty easy and if you can do it yourself it would come in under 3K.

[F6 R-Spec]

As mentioned buy the rest of the boys, yes top half of the windsor/ E seires STRUGLES as compared to the GM 5.0 L
BUT you have to ask your self, are you going to buy a motor alone or a complete vehcle ?
IMO would rather drive a ford then a VN-S COMMO they are loose, rattle, have a dinasore irs setup VP-VS, cheew tyres in the rear, crack rear sub frames when low and drive like rubbish compared to a EB-L .

El series 2 would be the pick of the bunch wich have the a better top half unles you have the coin to jump into a A seires with IRS wich is a much better drivers car, the choice is yours.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

my best mate has an EB2 XR8, EL GT Headers, twin 2.25" exhaust
a guy from his work had a VN 5LT extractors and twin 2.25" exhaust as well
when they dragged it was pretty much neck and neck. (both manuals too)
they never raced each other stock so i can't comment there, but the XR8 picked up probably 15kw alone from upgrading from single 2.5" to twin 2.25" which is pretty darn good.
the top end on the E-series 5lt are CRAP, you need GT40P heads, and explorer intake manifold and AUII/III XR8 intake setup to see some decent gains. then i suppose next thing would be cam.
would be able to get 240+kw out of that pretty easy and if you can do it yourself it would come in under 3K.

Most people wouldn't be doing they're own mods,but in the context of the thread,how far would 3k go on self done mods on a 304 then?

You could argue that a handy home mechanic could almost have a low boost turbo set up built with second hand parts for 3k.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by TL6B2

IMO would rather drive a ford then a VN-S COMMO they are loose, rattle, have a dinasore irs setup VP-VS, cheew tyres in the rear, crack rear sub frames when low and drive like rubbish compared to a EB-L .

Agreed.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

Most people wouldn't be doing they're own mods,but in the context of the thread,how far would 3k go on self done mods on a 304 then?

You could argue that a handy home mechanic could almost have a low boost turbo set up built with second hand parts for 3k.

I know of a few E-Series drivers who have done this! Only one with a 5.0 though.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

I know of a few E-Series drivers who have done this! Only one with a 5.0 though.

I've seen a ford 5l bossted on the cheap as well,but I havn't come anyone thats done a 304 to ask them how it goes.I would assume that done the same way,the 304 would have more grunt because the manifold and heads flow better than the eseries ones do,more room to force more air.

[Poetic Justice]

Having owned an EL 5.0, driven my mechanics VN SS with two stages of mods, and having my own Holden 5.0 now (albeit, in an earlier, lighter car) I'd definitely say the Holden as much as it pains me to say it.

The VN SS of my mechanics was great even with just exhaust, extractors and so forth. Pulled nicely... after fitting flowed heads and a cam package it pulls very, very hard.

Compare any of those stages to my EL Ghia 5.0 which had bigger intake, exhaust, extractors which was an absolute slug... the Commodore definitely wins.

I've got a VB now with a 92 SS motor in it (165kw) and even though of course it feels faster because its in a lighter shell, the engine just seems to breathe a lot easier.. You can just sense it!

[Quasi]

No contest....self respect wins every time.

[Bossxr8]

The Holdens have a few advantages, higher flowing heads, lighter weight and a low first gear.