Truth about hybrids, esp Prius

[chevypower]

How about an electric F150 that gets 100mpg, with 450kw, 2800Nm @1 rpm (not 1000 rpm)
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2008/10...d-hi-pa-d.html

[HLC]

i wrote a paper about this for uni last year. i did a major in sustainable design in my industrial design degree.


basically, it was something like 160 000 kays needed to be travelled before any savings were made on the purchase of a prius over a small 4cylinder petrol car. because of the price offset and economy etc. even higher like 200 000 kays in some countries like the states.

not to mention the 'dead zone' around the factory where the prius batteries are made. the chemicals killed all life in a radius around the factory and now NASA tests their lunar robots and other stuff there because its a similar environment to space.

another point, flying all the batteries and other crap around the world back and forth isnt particularly economical.

it worked out cheaper, envirionmentally, to put a Hummer on the road than a toyota prius.

if i can find where i saved the paper, ill post it up if anyone is interested. i think i lost it in the void between new and old computer but :(

[tex]

Hi mate, I for one would be very appreciative if you could post up that paper.

Hope you can find it!

thanks in advance

tex

[naddis01]

I personally think that LPG is the most underrated fuel in this country. Hopefully Ford will pull its finger out and introduce a Liquid injection Egas model for FG mkII. This is technology that is here and now. Liquid injection produces MORE power than petrol with an increase in consumption no more than 15%. Manufacturers claim only a 5% increase. BA/BF XR6 turbos have gained more than 10% to 15% extra power with these systems.

Now dont laugh but how about a liquid injection Egas on something like a Focus. If it was engineered during initial design so the gas tank didnt impeed rear boot storage as much as possible I feel this would be a much better alternative to a diesel focus. Plus you get the benefit of the LPG rebate offered by the government. If it acheived the same results as the Falcon it would have in the region of 123kw opposed to 107kw and use around 8.2L/100km of gas which is line ball with a Mazda 3 on petrol. The emissions from a LPG Focus would be around 123g/km while the petrol one emits 163g/km. Thats roughly a 25% decrease in emissions without the production and disposal environmetal impacts of a hybrid.

[Outbackjack]

For a light hearted look at the Prius....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go

[new2ford]

Too much emphasis on just fuel costs in these discussions. For the average motorist's hip pocket the total operating cost is the issue. Check the NRMA's operating cost figures:

http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xch...ting_costs.htm

My RWD TX Ford Territory (medium SUV) has lower operating costs than a Toyota Prius I-Tech (light car)!

If we are looking at a sustainable non-imported fuel in Australia that will provide long distance travel (unlike electric cars) we have natural gas. It seems to me Ford should be going beyond just LPG and looking more at CNG (which they did briefly back in the 1990s). Unfortunately the other factor is refuelling infrastructure and as long as this is dominated by the oil companies wanting to sell oil-based fuel this makes it hard. This is where the federal government could play a role.

We do need fuel self-sustainability which means getting off imported petroleum products onto sustainable locally-produced energy sources. Basically these are electricity and natural gas. Battery cars can't last the distance, which leaves CNG (or CNG-electric hybrid).

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by new2ford

If we are looking at a sustainable non-imported fuel in Australia that will provide long distance travel (unlike electric cars) we have natural gas. It seems to me Ford should be going beyond just LPG and looking more at CNG (which they did briefly back in the 1990s). Unfortunately the other factor is refuelling infrastructure and as long as this is dominated by the oil companies wanting to sell oil-based fuel this makes it hard. This is where the federal government could play a role.

We do need fuel self-sustainability which means getting off imported petroleum products onto sustainable locally-produced energy sources. Basically these are electricity and natural gas. Battery cars can't last the distance, which leaves CNG (or CNG-electric hybrid).

And some Ethanol from OUR farmers which keeps OUR money here...
One of our biggest polluters is the electric coal generation .. If elect cars are going to use this fuel ?? It may not be as C02 friendly as it seems...

[new2ford]

^^
Yes I forgot about ethanol though it's not used as a fuel on its own yet.

With electricity generation at least there can be alternative sources of 'fuel', but all still local - wind, hydro, nuclear etc. Plus carbon capture possibilities. Point is we should be aiming for energy self-reliance and get away from imported petroleum altogether.

But back to the subject I would prefer an LPG Falcon to a Prius any day. Prius is an expensive feel-good toy for the rich. When will we get a gas Territory I wonder?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by LOCO XP

The problem is far greater than mentioned. Saw a doco on SBS a while back regarding the Pious and its effect on a town in Colorado. To paraphrase:\

...There is a cloudy layer hanging in the atmosphere of town, the ranger points out that the clouds aren’t smog, rather it is smug from the self-satisfied garbage the citizens have been spewing into the air and too much smug in the air leads to “global laming.” ... Pious owners are also

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...VideoID=272288
the actual show

[prydey]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/arti...oding-the-myth

debunking a few myths.

while i am by no means 'pro prius' or hybrid for that matter, most of that is due to the large distances i like to drive and the initial up front premium you pay for a hybrid vehicle. also even though the nickel mining procedures are vastly improved, hybrids still cost more to manufacture than a normal petrol car so there are still a lot of misinformation by the media regarding these cars.

just thought i'd put the link up which i came accross a while ago regarding the mining of nickel and its many uses. to blame all of the 'dead zone' and pollution etc on the prius and other hybrids is a bit unfair.

[Daymoe]

http://carsales.com.au/car-review/3012926.aspx

While not a Prius, or a Hybrid, an electric Hyundai Getz!

2 gears, top speed of 120km/h and costs $2.50 for 100km of driving, not bad.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hoon

I pointed out that for some people the environment is more important than money. So if they buy the Prius thinking they are saving the environment, then good on them. Various people on here were making a "but it's more expensive" argument, which may be useful for understanding why they don't buy the cars, but it isn't useful for understanding why people do buy them.

lol. Those people buying the Prius for "environmental reasons" are being stooged. I refer to the 11ty posts on here regarding all the nasties that are used for the battery/electric systems.

The day Ford, or anyone else for that matter, produces an affordable all electric car I can drive for my commute then I'll buy it. I want the low rpm torque. Plus I actually enjoy driving. If I had my way, I would save driving my petrol cars for the weekend instead of ruining them with the sh!tfight of the daily commute.

Sounds like you live in the city. Are you in a situation where public transport is a viable option? And before people start referring to the crapness of the public transport system (I fully agree on this BTW), one could always catch a slightly earlier train in to work, to give say 15-30 minutes' leeway in case there are delays. Rock up early at work? Have a coffee & read the paper

[SM1DY]

Ahh, the irony. This car is fuel efficient and will protect the earths future. But in making it, we're destroying the environment!