Protect yourself when buying big-dollar parts and/or work. Some tips...

straughsberry · 10-06-2009, 01:21 PM

Hi All,

Due to my own recent experiences and the experiences of multiple others I have talked to or heard about, I thought I'd post a couple of simple tips about how to protect yourself when buying expensive parts or getting big-dollar work done.

For those of you who don't know, I am still owed $8000 dollars by a shop who promised a refund but only paid back $2000 dollars of a $10,000 dollar deposit. It has been weeks and many promises have been made but all of them broken. Stall tactics, excuses and outright lies are all I've heard.

During my last phone conversation with the shop owner over 3 weeks ago, I asked where my $10,000 dollars went because he obviously didn't have it. His reply was "something came up and I had to spend it". What the? You spent my 10k on something that "came up"? Con artist, rip off merchant, swindler, liar, cheat, hypocrite, ****-wipe, and down right -muncher are some words I would use to describe that kind of behaviour. So, to avoid this possible situation for yourselves, consider the following.

Never hand over large deposits on a promise of parts being ordered or work being done. A shop should have at minimum 30 day terms with any supplier. This is there so that they can order and receive parts on account and pay for them after they have completed a job or after customers pay. Too, it is much easier for them to reconcile accounts all at once instead of paying for multiple items throughout the credit period. And if the customer doesn't pay, they can return parts quite easily. And if it work that is to be carried out, consider progress payments. Remember, a desperate person will do desperate things.

Consider progress payments. If it's big-dollar work that is to be done, pay as the work is progressing. This is a perfectly legitimate and fair way of doing things and an honest operator should not have a problem with progress payments. You pay a reasonable deposit and an agreed to amount of work is completed. If it is not, you don't continue handing over money. If the work is done, then you hand over more money, and more work is done. And the cycle continues...

One shop I know of has had a car for 2 years and still can't reproduce the efforts of a previous shop. And to to think, they rubbished the previous builder. Yet 2 years on they've only managed to match the previous builders efforts. 2 years!? Ahahahahahaha looooser!

Always ask for an invoice. Any parts and work being done should be accompanied by and invoice. If a shop tells you they only deal in cash, you have to ask yourself why that is? Credit terms are provided to a business for the above reasons and the most likely reason a business would not have credit terms is because they have been refused credit by the supplier. Bad credit history? Consider a credit and background check. This might just reveal certain details. Web sites provide some basic information for free such as Consumer Affairs or ASIC, or you can pay information brokers for more detailed information about an individual, business or company.

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/cav/br-se...ria?mode=bnextr
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/
http://www.search.asic.gov.au/gns001.html

My two cents. Feel free to add any thoughts. Have a nice day

Steph.

Stefan · 10-06-2009, 01:36 PM

You learned the hard way, if a workshop or parts supplier cannot sustain doing work or supplying parts without the need for a deposit they should not get your business.

Your story is a painful one and I would think your advice is fairly common sense. I honestly doubt many people would hand over a $10K deposit for something.

Not that it really matters but what were you buying? It must have been worth at least $100K

**Tucool** · 10-06-2009, 01:39 PM

I do know the anguish of being taken.... good post

Bmobile · 10-06-2009, 02:04 PM

As a painter I require a 10% deposit when I turn up at a job ready for work. I will not take that deposit the week or even the day before, only when I show to do the job. That way my customer feels safe I am there to do the work and I feel safe the customer will pay at the end of the job.

I have been done 1 too many times when they don't pay at the end. If they have trouble paying a deposit when I arrive there is a good chance they won't pay at jobs end.

Dauphin · 10-06-2009, 02:17 PM

Good luck with that, I know how you feel. I'm going through a situation at the moment that is a real problem and in my case it's become very difficult to contact the other party involved. In fact, they yell at me and hang up the phone every time, will not listen to any reason. I am now involving VCAT and Consumer Affairs before legal action.

Trek · 10-06-2009, 02:26 PM

Cash installments/progress payments is the way I'm paying mine off, seems to be no problems as of yet. I chose to pay by cash, as opposed to credit though.

It's damn sad that there's scum who still try to blatantly rip people off like yourself, straughsberry. This info should be stickied, to make others more aware of it.

ratter · 10-06-2009, 02:30 PM

Steff, as we have discussed, I hope you end up getting your money back, it's a shame it has happened this way, as the dodgy operators give us all a bad name.

The other side of the coin is, as a workshop owner, I have had people come in to order parts only to never show to pay for them, This means I'm left holding parts that hopefully I may be able to move to somebody else or copping a restocking fee from the original supplier, if they'll take them back.
I now ask for a deposit if ordering parts for customers.

I've also had customers not turn up for work that is booked in, no phone call or notice etc. When I plan my day, it is based around how many hours are booked in, I can not book in more than we can do. If somebody does not turn up, we are left short of work for the day, Are these people ripping me off?
Now when anybody books in for a major job, I get a small deposit to gaurantee they will turn up.

Most people I have dealt with do not have a problem with this system, it is normally the dodgy types that don't want to do it

At present I have a car sitting here, that is worth maybe $500, the owner agreed to all repairs and cost was explained before we went ahead with the work. It has a bill of $3500. The car has been finished for a month and the owner will not come down to give us any money, I have to pay my suppliers nearly $2500 of that money.

There are dodgy workshops, there are also dodgy customers, thank god it is only a small percentage.

Hope it gets sorted for you mate

BIGJB · 10-06-2009, 02:57 PM

Sorry to hear this has happened to you and I hope you get a speedy outcome.

But I have to also add that there is another side to this coin.
I am now taking deposits for bookings as to many people "commit"
to work being done and simply don't bother showing up to get the work done.
As a result I end up sitting here with no work for the day and still have to pay
my overheads just because someone doesn't have the decency to call and cancel
my services.

I am also in the process of starting up a performance parts supply business and
all parts ordered will require a deposit before I will even entertain the idea of ordering
parts in for my customers. The unfortunate reality of life is that people these days
don't have the morals they once did and I refuse to left carrying stock that I don't require.

sgt_doofey · 10-06-2009, 03:57 PM

What about Consumer Affairs? Can't they help out?

AzuR · 10-06-2009, 04:42 PM

mate i know exactly how ya feel there

:

**TUF_302** · 10-06-2009, 05:43 PM

Sorry to hear about your problems straughsberry,

Some good advice you have offered from your learnings with this bad situation, Personally i would never hand over such an amount without a written contract to protect myself from such a thing happening.

I would try consumer affairs to help get your money back

straughsberry · 10-06-2009, 06:02 PM

Yeah Mick you're right. There are dodgy people on both sides. And I'm sure shops have more incidences of getting "ripped off" than individual consumers do.There's nothing wrong with a deposit. I wouldn't expect anything less. In fact I almost always ask if I need to leave a deposit.

Decent people should be warned away from people like that. We are talking about a pattern here. It's not a one off. I have spoken to others about their own experiences as well as heard anecdotal experiences of others.

His methods are very cunning and insidious. He gains the trust of those around him by doing so called "favours". This suits his purpose perfectly. He builds the reputation of being a "good guy" when all the while he is just surrounding himself with potential income.

I feel a responsibility to speak up and that's what I'm doing. I trusted the man and obviously that's why I handed over 10k of an 18k build. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

blueoval · 10-06-2009, 06:20 PM

This is tough. I usually recommend a receipt of payment for the deposit given and a written explanation of the work undertaken for that deposit prior to further payments given. That way everything is clear cut and everyone knows where they all stand.

As a business owner for large jobs, we ask for a 10% deposit for us to commence a project. Then progress payments there after.

Ghiadude · 10-06-2009, 06:37 PM

Name and shame i say!!. its probably not in your best legal interest to do that but word of mouth WILL spread and his business WILL suffer because of it.
Wish you luck getting your money back.

vztrt · 10-06-2009, 06:42 PM

^^ If he is gonna take further action he should probably refrain from doing that.

ratter · 10-06-2009, 06:55 PM

Steff, unfortunately you are probably not the last to be taken for a ride by a business, hopefully your warning will make people aware of what can happen.

Trust with a repairer can not be bought through forums, advertising etc, it has to be earned.

Buzz Box · 10-06-2009, 07:00 PM

I have to agree and I believe the consensus is 10% deposit and progress payments that is fair and reasonable for both sides.

Anyone whos asking more than 20% before they've even touched your car has to raise questions........unless obviously there is specalised or lots of parts they are ordering but most places are 10% then progress payments.

dusty86 · 10-06-2009, 07:10 PM

I can see both sides of the fence, you have brought up some valid point's but being in the auto trade as well the views outlines by ratter, ring very true, and as ad as it sounds some customers we do judge on face value, we once had a truck sitting in our work shop for over 6 months, no issues with the guy paying it when he showed but turns out he went on holiday's for 6 months and didn't have anywhere to put it

straughsberry · 10-06-2009, 07:43 PM

Hehe. If you had done your bit and finished the work on time then you could have fairly and reasonably charged him storage fees I would imagine.

**Burnout** · 10-06-2009, 08:32 PM

I have just done a deal with a business which required a 50% deposit for a task to be completed on 19 July.

These sort of deals are of concern, one has to pick and choose.......... Forgive yourself when it goes wrong, cause sometimes it does.

After forgiving yourself, GET EVEN!...every time!

Boza · 10-06-2009, 09:19 PM

I say name and shame the a hole.

straughsberry · 10-06-2009, 09:59 PM

If the moderators will allow this, I will gladly name and shame the shop but I don't want to put the forum in negative legal position so PM me if you want to know who it is.

cowboy · 11-06-2009, 09:10 AM

Hate to hear things like this. A mate at work has paid over 15k to an engine builder in the states for a big block stroker and now 6 months on is getting nothing but excuses. Good luck.