Cars"guide" VE2 Omega vs Falcon XT comparison - how ridiculous is the score?

[flappist]

The comments are not really in favour of poor Stuart and it looks like they will publish anything....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

The comments are not really in favour of poor Stuart and it looks like they will publish anything....

from anyone....!

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Mad_Aussie

Well by couple-of-year-old, I mean more like 5-10 year old, you can pick up from between $20-70 depending on where you look ;)

We had a 2000 spec V10 manual come through just recently, was picked up for ~$10k!

2000 model M5s were not V10.
V10 was introduced in 2005 (E60).

[Mad_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Wretched

2000 model M5s were not V10.
V10 was introduced in 2005 (E60).

my bad, it was a 5L, v8 then? May have been a conversion tho - was very neat, and could have sworn it was a 10cyl.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Eu-GenixX

It didn't say anywhere in the article that it was using E85.. just said it was an ethanol blend capable of E85

I would take this as the Commodore running E85.

The three-litre V6 is running on an ethanol-blend and it's a little smoother - the sweeter fuel has not roughed the V6 up. It still feels a little undergone through the mid-range compared to the Ford and the trip computer ended the same loop showing 13.7 litres per 100km, which corresponds to Holden expectations of increased fuel use on E85

[Brazen]

I dont know, call me crazy but I agree with the final score. In my opinion the Commodore is a pretty good package in base model form.

More safety equipment, more features, better looking (subjective), better resale. I would still buy the Falcon but a Commodore I think is a better drive. It feels more planted to the road and the seating position is much better. It also dosnt have the front end float that base model Falcons have. Driving a base Commodore with its 50:50 weight distribution on a windy road makes you appreciate how good they are.

I doubt that there is this massive conspiracy against the Falcon, its just that the Commodore is pretty dam good nowadays and I think that hurts a few people on here to hear.

[jonk]

Used to know Stuart. He's part time now. The journo's vet their own comments section. Obviously a co-worker let through the more abrasive stuff. Happy happy comments have been disallowed.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I dont know, call me crazy but I agree with the final score. In my opinion the Commodore is a pretty good package in base model form.

More safety equipment, more features, better looking (subjective), better resale. I would still buy the Falcon but a Commodore I think is a better drive. It feels more planted to the road and the seating position is much better. It also dosnt have the front end float that base model Falcons have. Driving a base Commodore with its 50:50 weight distribution on a windy road makes you appreciate how good they are.

I doubt that there is this massive conspiracy against the Falcon, its just that the Commodore is pretty dam good nowadays and I think that hurts a few people on here to hear.

Brazen, your comment here seems to contradict even Stuarts comments:

On the winding country roads of the Adelaide hills, the Falcon - even in its mainstream chassis set-up - feels well-planted on the road. In the corners the steering has good meat to it and despite not being the sports model it handles bends (including those with mid-corner bumps) with aplomb and without excessive body-roll.
The VE II is similarly impressive over the same twisty loop, with lighter steering that feels a little less meaty than the Falcon.

[Falcman0o7]

I'm not even going to read that. It's just one man's opinion. BORING. And does the FG and VE share the same roof and doors! LOL! there's similar and then there's just ummm....To similar.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Did the Australians Design and Engineer it from scratch ?
(Or is it just a rebadged V6 Camry from overseas)

What's the relevance of the question? Aurion & Camry are made in Australia, and in fact Toyota spends $2.4 billion on locally manufactured componentry per annum, make 140,000 vehicles per year at Altona and export roughly 100,000 of those. Aurion is a facelifted Camry - no secret there. The entire facelift was designed in Australia. Are you saying that the Commodore and Falcon have no design influence at all from their parent companies internationally?

Look here: http://www.caradvice.com.au/64870/to...-altona-plant/

In comparison, how much local componentry goes in to the Commodore or Falcon? More into the Ford than the Holden I'm guessing, but the sheer volume of Toyotas manufactured compared to Commos & Falcs means that Toyota are far more valuable to the Aussie economy than the other two internationally owned local manufacturers.

[lownloud]

I have just got a '07 VE Omega and came out of a '07 BF mkII XT. I have to say at first I was thinking the VE was a nicer package. It does have a few extra niceties and features that the Falcon lacked. A few weeks in and it's a different story. I've had a chance to live with and look over the car in more detail and have found it to be lacking in many ways.
Bearing in mind I do still think it is better equipped I have found the following:

Ford holds the road way better. VE feels floaty in the rear.
VE paint is very ordinary over whole car. Orange peel seems to be the acceptable finish.
Carpet and trim on VE feels very "made in China" and all comes a drift regularly.
VE has very cheap plasticy feeling and loose fitting parts everywhere. Try around the headlight switch for instance or beside passenger seat.
VE engine goes well but is very agricultural sounding.
VE Door trim and interior materials seem hard to clean. Armour All it and cover it up seems to work better.

I am generally very underwhelmed with it so far and my idea of "trying what the other team runs" has so far fallen flat. My next car will be another Falcon thanks! I'll take some good old fashioned build quality over funky digital dash lights and gimmicks.

I reckon if you want top make some money in the future buy up the crappy VE plastic bits cause you'll make a fortune on Ebay in 10 years time!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Brazen, your comment here seems to contradict even Stuarts comments:

To be fair I dont think Im contradicting him by the quote you gave from him. he is right saying the Falcon is a great handler, just that I prefer the way the Commodore drives in base model form - but im sure most of that must come down to the driving position of the Commodore.

He does mention the steering in the Falcon and I think this is one area that both cars really shine. For a while carmakers made steering heavier to give the impression that the car was more sporty or gave more feedback (cough, cough BA and VZ). Whereas the VE and FG have been able to give feedback and meatiness whilst still being delicate and precise.

For me the improvements in the FG simply in the steering should be enough to get BA-BF owners to upgrade. Its back to AU Falcon levels of steering goodness.

I still would buy a Falcon (if it came in wagon) but it dosnt suprise me that the Commodore won the test. I think you have to live with a Falcon for a while before you can truly appreciate how much better the package is, whereas the Commodores probably gives a good first impression with its trinkets.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Brazen

He does mention the steering in the Falcon and I think this is one area that both cars really shine. For a while carmakers made steering heavier to give the impression that the car was more sporty or gave more feedback (cough, cough BA and VZ). Whereas the VE and FG have been able to give feedback and meatiness whilst still being delicate and precise.

For me the improvements in the FG simply in the steering should be enough to get BA-BF owners to upgrade. Its back to AU Falcon levels of steering goodness.

Fully agree with this bit at least Brazen. The FG steering is really a revelation for a heavy family sedan....there are quite a few big name competitors (with prices to match) that would come up short compared to the Falcon in this regard. In fact with the variable ratio and better feedback i'd say the FG finally surpasses the AU (at least in luxury spec) because it is a fraction more meaty and less floaty in its front end setup. Also understeers less mid corner....which is a nice change from most of what is out there these days....

[anto]

i still prefer the steering feel in the AU, its spot on.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Brazen

For me the improvements in the FG simply in the steering should be enough to get BA-BF owners to upgrade. Its back to AU Falcon levels of steering goodness.

I agree, but would go further. The FG steering is so direct, so developed, it actually takes a while to get used to. Obviously the repositioning of the steering rack has moved the ford leaps and bounds ahead. The VE in comparison is more or less an evolution of the steering in the VZ which was more direct than the BA/BF, but compared to the directness of the FG the VE steers like the Titanic.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by Pedro

I rented a near new Commodore for a week to see what they are like. I was shocked at how bad it was and that's comparing it to a BF!

I drive a VE Omega for work and and my BF2 is far nicer to drive IMO. Both are 4sp auto and the VE uses a fair bit more fuel for the same trip. I find the VE feels more responsive at low speed - seems to me that the throttle isn't graduated properly. There doesn't seem to be much difference between half and full throttle so most people who just potter around town probably think that they're powerful cars but it's all in the gearing. most of my driving is highway and once the commo is out of first gear, the performance difference is enormous - overtaking it's got nothing on the Ford - they're worlds apart. I haven't driven a 6sp Falcon yet but I'd imagine they feel much more responsive 0-60 than my 4sp that does about 85kmh in first...

Originally Posted by Brazen

I dont know, call me crazy ...

but a Commodore I think is a better drive. It feels more planted to the road and the seating position is much better.

Driving a base Commodore with its 50:50 weight distribution on a windy road makes you appreciate how good they are.

I might have to take you up on your offer and call you crazy
my drive to work and back is 90km each way on a windy country highway and the VE feels MUCH less planted on the road than my BF. and the seating position is much less comfortable too. Getting out of the VE and into the BF feels like an instant upgrade. At least it means that I don't have to pay for my travelling though, so overall I'm not complaining...

Originally Posted by Mad_Aussie

Well by couple-of-year-old, I mean more like 5-10 year old, you can pick up from between $20-70 depending on where you look ;)

We had a 2000 spec V10 manual come through just recently, was picked up for ~$10k!

I see someone's already mentioned that the V10 came out with the E60 in 2005. the E39's were v8's and you'd have a hard time finding one under $30-40k so $10k would be an absolute steal. still nice cars and I've considered buying one a few times (not M5 though - out of my price range - more like 530i or 540i sport versions).
I think your comparison of Ford/Holden being rubbish compared to BMW isn't completely accurate though. A few years ago (2004) I considered trading my BA Ghia for a similarly priced BMW. 2yo BA vs 5-6yo E39 5 series (fair comparison as they were the same price). after test driving a couple and getting back in the BA I immediately abandoned that idea. The Ghia was significantly more comfortable with more power and more features so I kept it...