Front Diff in the Sump - could that mean something for future Falcons?

[Luke Plaizier]

We all know that the Territory now has the front diff mounted to the engine sump in the Diesel V6, instead of to the chassis. This has effectively locked out the I6 from having AWD.

But that got me wondering. What is the total height of this engine+sump now? Would it fit within the dimensions of the Falcon engine bay?

Now, as I recall, the J Mays quote recently that caused all the speculation of a FWD Falcon - all he really said was "...don't hold your breath for a RWD Falcon, it will more likely be AWD"

Hmm. I wonder. Sump mounted front differentials, V8 Miami's, V6 Diesls, V6 Ecoboosts - does this one morsel of technical innovation show us a possible path to retaining Falcon with a longitudinal layout inclusive of hi performance Forced Induction V8 capability AND have AWD as well - albeit at the expense of losing the I6?

Could this give us hope that the announcement of AWD for future Falcon does not necessarily mean it will be Taurus based with V6 only and FWD?


Lukeyson

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

We all know that the Territory now has the front diff mounted to the engine sump in the Diesel V6, instead of to the chassis. This has effectively locked out the I6 from having AWD.

But that got me wondering. What is the total height of this engine+sump now? Would it fit within the dimensions of the Falcon engine bay?

Now, as I recall, the J Mays quote recently that caused all the speculation of a FWD Falcon - all he really said was "...don't hold your breath for a RWD Falcon, it will more likely be AWD"

Hmm. I wonder. Sump mounted front differentials, V8 Miami's, V6 Diesels, V6 Ecoboosts - does this one morsel of technical innovation show us a possible path to retaining Falcon with a longitudinal layout inclusive of hi performance Forced Induction V8 capability AND have AWD as well - albeit at the expense of losing the I6?

Could this give us hope that the announcement of AWD for future Falcon does not necessarily mean it will be Taurus based with V6 only and FWD?


Lukeyson

You could be onto something with this. It could mean a reasonable bonnet height could be achieved, yet still retain RWD for those that only want it. Done well it hopefully it wouldn't need to raise the CoG too much.

[Mr Hardware]

Diff in sump?
wow.

[Raptor]

Interesting speculation.

Note also the location of the suspension arms and design of the front knuckle (upright) in the FG means it is capable of accepting a front driveshaft.

Come to think of it the AWD Territory had the front spring mount raised (to allow the use of a shorter spring) a few years ago too and I never could understand why they would have done that.

[Road_Warrior]

Well with the new "diff in sump" and EPAS setup for the SZ Territory I seem to recall one of the press articles quoting Mr Graziano(?) that this setup was a "first" for a Ford vehicle and was to be implemented in other vehicles in the global lineup.

Certainly if Lincoln is to be expected to play on equal terms in the US market with the likes of Lexus, BMW and Audi, it will need a longitudinal AWD setup.

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Could this give us hope that the announcement of AWD for future Falcon does not necessarily mean it will be Taurus based with V6 only and FWD?

Also, the Taurus is supposed to move to the next-gen CD4 platform along with Fusion and Mondeo. I saw something posted on another forum that implied CD4 was going to be 4 cylinder only. Obviously this won't be acceptable for a Taurus, but for our purposes, availability of a 6 cylinder will be an absolute baseline. Hence CD4 may not be suitable.

[Polyal]

Interesting yes...but why would they want AWD in the falcon unless it was being primed for exports or larger volumes?

AWD just adds more weight = more fuel consumption. AWD also is not a trait that Australians seem to want, no matter how much Subaru tries. (excluding pickups and proper 4x4's)

I think we can lock in the I6 as gone, regardless of any outcomes. I would think that other than any upcoming compliance that ECOLpi will be the last real innovation on the I6. Happy to be wrong here but I cant see it lasting.

I also do not think there will ever be a FWD Falcon, we have the mondeo/fusion/tarsus; there is no benefit for Ford.

AWD I guess could work if the Falcon shares with Lincoln as the US obviously has a heavy winter (I think this is also a reason why they have FWD sedans generally).

If AWD happens I wont be overly impressed, but if it keeps the Falcon alive then its hard to be annoyed about it.

[Mr Hardware]

Not really road warrior
from a Ford Sierra XR4x4:
http://www.initialdave.com/misfile/s...ierrafdiff.htm

[Chilliman]

What if Ford Australia became Ford-Lincoln Australia and became the global production centre for RWD/AWD Lincoln's?

Falcon still may or may not be replaced by a FWD/AWD CD4-based vehicle which may or may not be imported with the RWD/AWD car shifting upmarket and wearing the Lincoln badge. The Falcon name may even be retired?

[dylancox]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I also do not think there will ever be a FWD Falcon, we have the mondeo/fusion/tarsus; there is no benefit for Ford.

Ford Tarsus.. thats a new one

[outback_ute]

Isn't the diff attached to the sump? Rather than 'in' it - you wouldn't want to lubricate a hypoid diff with engine oil!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Isn't the diff attached to the sump? Rather than 'in' it - you wouldn't want to lubricate a hypoid diff with engine oil!

Yeah it is attached to it.

[Luke Plaizier]

Actually, are there any images from Ford showing how the diff is attached to the sump, and where the shafts go?


Lukeyson

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Actually, are there any images from Ford showing how the diff is attached to the sump, and where the shafts go?


Lukeyson

The best I can come up with is



You can juuuust see the diff poking out behind the (new) hydraulic engine mounts. Also:



That teeny weeny widdle intercooler. What would a bigger 'cooler do for the TDCi's performance?

[Wretched]

Didn't Porsche do something like this with the Panamera?

"...the front diff is built into the engine's crankcase and the left-hand front driveshaft passes within a whisker of a crankshaft counterweight..."

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/23...in_motion.html

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Well with the new "diff in sump" and EPAS setup for the SZ Territory I seem to recall one of the press articles quoting Mr Graziano(?) that this setup was a "first" for a Ford vehicle and was to be implemented in other vehicles in the global lineup.

Certainly if Lincoln is to be expected to play on equal terms in the US market with the likes of Lexus, BMW and Audi, it will need a longitudinal AWD setup.



Also, the Taurus is supposed to move to the next-gen CD4 platform along with Fusion and Mondeo. I saw something posted on another forum that implied CD4 was going to be 4 cylinder only. Obviously this won't be acceptable for a Taurus, but for our purposes, availability of a 6 cylinder will be an absolute baseline. Hence CD4 may not be suitable.

I recall saying something similar to this in a different thread.

[Eaturbo]

It is the identical set up that holden had with its Adventra wagons and the HSV Monaro Coupe 4. The diff housing bolts to the side of a strengthened sump and 1 drive shaft goes thru the middle of the sump and the other just goes straight to the front hub. The sump has an alloy tube running thru it so there is no need for seals or o-rings to prevent sump leaks. Very well engineered even if holden had it back in 2004. The reason it is mostly used is to keep the engine low in the chassis to keep centre of gravity low but also you would not fit a diff under alot of engines especially a car like a Commodore. The Territory has alot of height but the new TDV6 must be a deep engine package or as mentioned they are thinking of something with a lower bonnet profile like Falcon