Toyota 86 price $29,990!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LukeyST

For those upset by this car 'only' having 147kw, think of it this way, it has a power-weight ratio of 120kw/tonne. This is more than the current XR6 (@ 114kw/tonne) which is more than enough to get you from corner to corner on a proper driving road.

Torque is the reason that an XR6 will still comfortably beat it, ~160nm/tonne plays ~220nm/tonne.

Here is an interesting video, the S2000 beats the BRZ as you would expect (given their power outputs) but the margin shows just how slow the BRZ really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM

I'm not bashing them for being slow, I'm just sick of people trying to defend their measly power outputs. I also think they are way, way... way over-hyped.

[dimka100]

MY god it got demolished in that test LOL ...

The issue with this little power is once an Aurion driver smokes you from the lights there is nothing you will be able to do to overtake them ... you will be quicker in the corners but the Aurion driver will simply drive defensively and there is nothing you will be able to do about it ...

And for a sports car to be beaten by a boring family hack is just plain sad ... that's why this car is only for weekend Japanese Touge drivers or city hairdressers ...

Shame really :(

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Torque is the reason that an XR6 will still comfortably beat it, ~160nm/tonne plays ~220nm/tonne.

Here is an interesting video, the S2000 beats the BRZ as you would expect (given their power outputs) but the margin shows just how slow the BRZ really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM

I'm not bashing them for being slow, I'm just sick of people trying to defend their measly power outputs. I also think they are way, way... way over-hyped.

[LukeyST]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Torque is the reason that an XR6 will still comfortably beat it, ~160nm/tonne plays ~220nm/tonne.

Here is an interesting video, the S2000 beats the BRZ as you would expect (given their power outputs) but the margin shows just how slow the BRZ really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM

I'm not bashing them for being slow, I'm just sick of people trying to defend their measly power outputs. I also think they are way, way... way over-hyped.

I'll say up front, the time the BRZ posted in that vid was rubbish, I expected quicker (from both cars in fact), but anyway, its a pretty meaningless comparison at the end of the day, throw in some corners and both cars will come into their own.

In regards to being over-hyped, obviously I haven't driven one, but if chassis is even half as good as what they are saying, you can't really go wrong for 30k.

[BaraFGXR6]

Id still wait for an STI/TRD/forced induction version before giving a final verdict.

Everyone who is seeing this as the holy grail of sport cars vs driving experience is seriously ignorant in thinking that there is no other car for the price out there that could do the same thing.

One could argue "oh buts its brand new and has auto gearbox and flaps and warranty!" considering how everyone is harping on about after market parts i dont think you'l get far with the warranty argument. Auto gearbox is Auto but thats already been covered so far.

Granted cars like this will be good - but lets take some of our favourite roads..
I.e, the Old pacific highway (as a quick ruff example).

Going "down" i could see how this would be a fun car and all that "super new never before seen handling" would come into play and it would be sheer driving pleasure to say the least. Light, flickable - whats not to like?

Going "up" however... lets see how far that tiny bucket of torque gets you and your passenger.

There are already plenty of cars on the 2nd hand market (for those wanting to argue the price v fun fact) that would expose this thing for what it is which is essentially a very good marketing ploy on the next fad way to move 4 wheels round a corner.

Id take an s15/350z/v35/wrx/evo over this new thing any day

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by dimka100

MY god it got demolished in that test LOL ...

The issue with this little power is once an Aurion driver smokes you from the lights there is nothing you will be able to do to overtake them ... you will be quicker in the corners but the Aurion driver will simply drive defensively and there is nothing you will be able to do about it ...

And for a sports car to be beaten by a boring family hack is just plain sad ... that's why this car is only for weekend Japanese Touge drivers or city hairdressers ...

Shame really :(

Well, the point of this car is to tackle track work, rather then lowering your IQ draging Aurions from the lights...

[IceValk85]

i know some BA xr8 auto owners who couldnt crack 15.5 on a 1/4 mile first hand....

so a 2l 4 pot that pulls 15.7 quaters is rubbish? wake up.

the AE86 was never fast in a straight line, nor were the celicas, nor is the mx5 nor is the rx8, but they are all excellent cars in their own right.

Ice

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Well, the point of this cars is to tackle track work, rather then lowering your IQ draging Aurions from the lights...

EXACTLY...god the formula isnt hard...Porsches over the years have not been the most powerful sports cars either but they still come up trumps because at the end of the day anyone can go fast in a straight line with enough CI's and money.

Just like classic cars, some people just dont get it.

[Nic85]

Where exactly are you going to use this "sublime handling"? In the mountains somewhere that are full of Police? Or maybe at the big roundabout near your house, where the copper will be waiting on the other side? Maybe the one or two track days you'll get time for a year? If that's the case you're better off with a second hand Evo.

I've had performance cars for years. I don't have one anymore. You simply cannot drive fast on public roads anymore. It's a fact of life. 99.9% of the time this car will be used for day to day commuting, where its total lack of torque, spartan interior and hard ride, will become tedious very quickly.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Where exactly are you going to use this "sublime handling"? In the mountains somewhere that are full of Police? Or maybe at the big roundabout near your house, where the copper will be waiting on the other side? Maybe the one or two track days you'll get time for a year? If that's the case you're better off with a second hand Evo.

I've had performance cars for years. I don't have one anymore. You simply cannot drive fast on public roads anymore. It's a fact of life. 99.9% of the time this car will be used for day to day commuting, where its total lack of torque, spartan interior and hard ride, will become tedious very quickly.

So you have given up on life and drive a Camry?

Handling if anything can be used far more within legal restrictions than bulk power. My AU I6 has plenty of torque for around town..LOL

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So you have given up on life and drive a Camry?

Handling if anything can be used far more within legal restrictions than bulk power. My AU I6 has plenty of torque for around town..LOL

No, but I can see how a Camry is a fine proposition for most people.

If I was in the market for a small sports car for everyday use around the $40k mark (which the 86 GTS will cost), I would probably buy a Veloster turbo, Ralliart Lancer, Subaru WRX, Mazda 3 MPS, Renault Clio, Renault Megane, Volkswagen Golf GTi, Volkswagen Polo GTi or any other number of cars that make effortless torque for day to day driving, but still have excellent chassis. If I was in the market for a weekend blaster, I would buy a second hand Evo 6 TME and spend the left over $15k on mods.

I can see the appeal to some people for this car, but to me, having had NA sports cars and turbo sports cars, the turbo wins every time as it's much more usable for every day duties. If I bought one of these torqueless things, I would probably want to shoot myself within the first week from being so frustrated by it.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Nic85

No, but I can see how a Camry is a fine proposition for most people.

If I was in the market for a small sports car for everyday use around the $40k mark (which the 86 GTS will cost), I would probably buy a Veloster turbo, Ralliart Lancer, Subaru WRX, Mazda 3 MPS, Renault Clio, Renault Megane, Volkswagen Golf GTi, Volkswagen Polo GTi or any other number of cars that make effortless torque for day to day driving, but still have excellent chassis. If I was in the market for a weekend blaster, I would buy a second hand Evo 6 TME and spend the left over $15k on mods.

I can see the appeal to some people for this car, but to me, having had NA sports cars and turbo sports cars, the turbo wins every time as it's much more usable for every day duties. If I bought one of these torqueless things, I would probably want to shoot myself within the first week from being so frustrated by it.

Im certainly not suggesting that the cars you mentioned above are anything but good, most of them are great, but the difference is while they might be all around the same price they are not really in the same category.

For the day to day grind yes, low down torque is good, but whos to say its the best way to go about it? I could counter and say stuff it, why not just settle with a good TDi car if fuel consumption and toorque is what you are really worried about.

This type of car is a very personal choice I guess, its actually saying yes there are more powerful cars out there, but so what, Im not about power its about another kind of fun which no hot hatch or AWD midsizer will ever match; they have their own definition.

Buying second hand also doesnt come into the equation, because its a new car not an old one because i agree again for the cash there are good alternatives. FD RX7's, heck $25k gets you a really nice T3...but thats not the point.

I dont understand how people can hold anything about this car, sure the general public mightnt be crying out for it but so what, they seem to have filled all the current orders and at that price it will do well enough.

Live and let live, there are lots of ways to get a rush out there and not one of them suits everyone.

I still dont know why I am sitting here defending a Toyota on a Ford forum..

The GT86 reminds be of a modern day Porsche 924/944. Sure they started off with a pretty poxy VW 2.0 but then it grew to 2.5L..then to 3.0L then they wacked a turbo on it. So if people are saying the 924/944 is not a good car then I give up.

[Nic85]

It could be a Ford or a Holden or a friggen BMW for all I care, if you're going to make a small sports car, put a decent engine in it.

That is all.

[MAGPIE]

What I don't get is all the hater's who just can't leave it alone...

Say your piece and move on if you don't like it, but there are people here who do like the concept and would like to discuss it.

Typical of threads round here lately.

[The Monty]

Those saying its slow. It does a 15.7 1/4 with wheel spin on an unprepped track, lol.
Now go back to your whinging about journos who cant get lower then a 14.9 in the F6 on an unprepped track "because it got wheel spin" and "because the journos cant drive". Sour grapes much?

[The Monty]

Oh, by the way, on a prepped track, the S2000 does a 14.2. Stock. This would mean the 86 would sneak under the 15 second mark ***just***.
Now get you 9 year old BA XR8 to do that, and really impress me, lol.

[Charliewool]

If nothing else, this things certainly created interest? Nearly 200 posts about a new Toyota on a dedicated FORD forum!... (must be some sort of record?)
Maybe FoMoCo Aust. needs to look at building something similar?

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

If nothing else, this things certainly created interest? Nearly 200 posts about a new Toyota on a dedicated FORD forum!... (must be some sort of record?)
Maybe FoMoCo Aust. needs to look at building something similar?

If FoMoCo made a small, light, affordable, 2 door, RWD, fun car people would lose their poop.. (me included)

[mcnews]

I nearly bought an S2000 before the RX8 but the Maz won out on practicality and newness etc. I have long said that an RX8 with S2000 running gear would be totally awesome and I would buy one in an instant. The rotary uses too much fuel and oil etc. An RX8 with latest tech largish 4-cyl or small 6-cyl engine wouuld just be an amazing package.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Nic85

If I was in the market for a small sports car for everyday use around the $40k mark (which the 86 GTS will cost), I would probably buy a Veloster turbo, Ralliart Lancer, Subaru WRX, Mazda 3 MPS, Renault Clio, Renault Megane, Volkswagen Golf GTi, Volkswagen Polo GTi or any other number of cars that make effortless torque for day to day driving, .

They nearly all drive from the wrong end or are all paw thus all F-A-I-L (in my opinion, I don't care how torquey how fast, drive from wrong end or all = just totally not interested in the slightest - and if you have driven that poxy DSG VW set-up in a city you would know how much it sucks, and if you were unlucky enough to buy one of the first couple of model year ones, are probably now shelling out 14k for a new box)

[BaraFGXR6]

Why no love for the all paws?
Lancer is a nugget but the rexy will kick its tail out under its own steam in stock form.

[greenfoam]

Man, this thing is going to make buying the new Fiesta ST at the same price a very difficult decision

[BaraFGXR6]

The new focus/Fiesta ST is gona rock with the eco boost!
Especially once the euro market opens up!

[greenfoam]

[HTML][/HTML]

Originally Posted by LukeyST

Never taken an XR4 for a drive, but I am considering replacing the AU with an XR5 at the end of the year. Haven't driven one yet, but I hear they are also quiet a good handling car (not too mention they have a decent amount of go with the forced 5cyl engine).

The Fiesta ST/XR4 is a total beast. It's like a FWD XU1 from the future, the things are glued to the road with almost no suspension movement. More than enough power to own almost any car on the road so long as there's a few corners involved .

It because of me knowing how good those things are/were that we are interested in the new turbo Fiesta ST, which is going to be even better

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

If nothing else, this things certainly created interest? Nearly 200 posts about a new Toyota on a dedicated FORD forum!... (must be some sort of record?)
Maybe FoMoCo Aust. needs to look at building something similar?

I can guarantee you the reaction would be very very different! Swap GT86 with Capri and see the accolades role in.

I just dont get the power complaints..im sure Toyota/Subaru have a long strategy for the car and they know what they are doing. They wanted a particular kw/tonne and achieved it. The aftermarket and later developments will no doubt see more power.

But the car was built to a price so its within reach of most people. Look at the chassis, the tyre combo is nothing huge, so once you start upping the anti then things get costly which defeats the purpose of the car.

Perhaps people are wanting this car to be a Supra, its just not and thats ok because by all accounts it seems Toyota has been given a wake up call and is getting some of its mojo back.

Good luck to them, because people buy heaps of toyotas now, imagine if they get rid of the white goods label!

[Wretched]

Toyota's CEO Akio Toyoda set out to rebuild the company's image from the blandness we now have.
With this he wanted to deliver a drivers car and not only that but a car that is a building block for enthusiasts to "improve."
Mr Toyoda is a car enthusiast that competes in many overseas races including the Lemans 24hr.

The 86 and BRZ are there to show Toyota can build exciting cars and I think they have done it well. It has got the attention of just about everyone. It isn't the be all and end all, it is an interactive marketing exercise, something they can test the waters with. Should it succeed think of all the other potential products they will release (Supra?).
If it does set the world on fire expect other makes to join the party.

Hates are always going to hate but in the end the car is delivering as expected.

Never in my life would i have expected to say this. Good on you Toyota.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by IceValk85

i know some BA xr8 auto owners who couldnt crack 15.5 on a 1/4 mile first hand....

so a 2l 4 pot that pulls 15.7 quaters is rubbish? wake up.

the AE86 was never fast in a straight line, nor were the celicas, nor is the mx5 nor is the rx8, but they are all excellent cars in their own right.

Ice

S2000 is a 2L 4 cylinder as well, and its not designed to go fast in straight lines, it basically exists for the same reason as the 86 does. In fact you'll find that the DC2/DC5 Integra Type R will pull a slightly quicker 1/4 mile than the S2000.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Nic85

It could be a Ford or a Holden or a friggen BMW for all I care, if you're going to make a small sports car, put a decent engine in it.

That is all.

So would you pay 50k for it if it had 200KW? oh and then it would need 4WD to get the power down.
where do you stop? its about bang for buck

[AJ-80]

http://www.tunehouse.com.au/archives...-story-begins/

Tunehouse can supply supercharger kits, exhausts suspension already.

[DBourne]

There were 4 of these just near work at lunch.

Red GT manual
Orange GTS Manual
White GTS Manual
Black GT Auto.

I have to say I am in love.. they are so damn low!!!

I'm a really short guy and they come up to my chest.

The front looks so mean in the flesh, really well done. Interior looks beautiful, like it would be a very nice place to sit and drive a car (though the rear seats look pointless).

I have thought I'd get the GTS over the GT, I mean for $5K why not. And seeing them in person has definitely re-enforced that feeling..

God I just wish I had the chance to drive one :(

[Poetic Justice]

Did some product training with this car this morning.

It's pretty good. Alot of work went into it, that's for sure. And I'd say this is only the beginning for what Toyota is thinking...