The future for Ford workers: literacy will be key

[Lotte]

Why.... are completely different professions even being compared for monetary worth and smarts?

I mean, the rivalry amongst us grads at work can be a little competitive ("structural engineering is better than piping" "NO IT'SNOT WITHOUT US YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO BUILD STRUCTURES FOR!!"), but it's all in good fun. And when it comes to the guys who are building what we work on in the office? We're a team, engineers need construction workers, fitters, turners, assemblers, the works. We also need a plethora of other professional people to get us where we are. The whole "engineers know more therefore are worth more" tone is ********. Not one grad, or engineer for that matter, on the project I'm on would say they should get paid more than the guys on site, whether it's onshore or offshore. Comparing teachers to assemblers is even more ridiculous.

I'm actually really annoyed that my other half gets paid less than me. I've been out of uni just over a year, and I get paid - at a guess - 30-40% more than he does as a mechanic. He's been doing it 12 years. I may be able to do pipe stress calcs, determine valve requirements and write specifications (oh yay), but I got nothing on what he can do with a car. For now anyway ;)

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by lotski

I'm actually really annoyed that my other half gets paid less than me. I've been out of uni just over a year, and I get paid - at a guess - 30-40% more than he does as a mechanic. He's been doing it 12 years. I may be able to do pipe stress calcs, determine valve requirements and write specifications (oh yay), but I got nothing on what he can do with a car. For now anyway ;)

But you are liable for any decision you make for a very long time and the cost per decision ratio is much higher. You work in a riskier field, expect the risk taker to earn more...

JP

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

But you are liable for any decision you make for a very long time and the cost per decision ratio is much higher. You work in a riskier field, expect the risk taker to earn more...

JP

Actually, as a grad, I have zero responsibility (if something goes wrong) as my work is triple checked by senior engineers; and signed off by them, for the next two years now. I started out on 30% more than he's on. Yes, I understand the concept of responsibility/danger money etc, it doesn't mean I shouldn't think quite a few worthwhile positions get ripped off for just as important work, albeit with lesser responsibility. And no, I don't act like I have zero responsibility in my job, I take it very seriously (as I don't trust the seniors to do their job), but I know that if it came to it, it wouldn't fall on my head til I've graduated up.

(I'm also fully aware that the industry I'm in automatically means big bucks, and I'd be on a fair bit less if I didn't land this particular job).

[jpblue1000]

Nice position to be in for now, learn well as one day you'll be on your own.
My insurance to trade...just to be allowed to answer my phone when a client calls amounts to 12K per year such are the risks, I hope I earn more then many given my costs and lifetime liability, and I earnt on my last project an equivalent of $10.58 per hour...
And people believe professionals are all millionaires.
JP

[mik]

Regardless of who gets what, one thing is for sure jobs across the board are important,

our schools uni`s turn out scientists , politicians, mathematicians, accountants ,teachers, tradesmen of all sorts, truck drivers, concreters, builders, dunny cleaners, floor sweepers , machine operators, painters,fork lift drivers, storeman, die setters, foundry workers, plastic extruders, miners, plumbers, electricians, water jet operators,painters, mechanics, panel beaters,etc, etc.

i could go on, but my point here is as i said, schools turn out all manner of students, some of which will need a hands on jobs, while many can be rocket scientist and blue collar workers some people either just dont have the apptitude or just are not cut out that way, (i would slit my own throat if i had to put up with brats or sit at a desk all day).
Hands on type /factory/manual labor jobs will always be required , to let these type of jobs be destroyed by other countries with their cheap imports can only lead to disaster, these type of jobs are disappearing in whole industrys, there is no value for a person who cant find a job or job security in either self esteem or happiness or even as a contributor to the tax man, not to mention the many other problems assossiated with people who are depressed with idle hands and little light at the end of the tunnel .................which sometimes leads to self harm, domestic violence, and crime, anyone looked in the papers lately?

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Nice position to be in for now, learn well as one day you'll be on your own.
My insurance to trade...just to be allowed to answer my phone when a client calls amounts to 12K per year such are the risks, I hope I earn more then many given my costs and lifetime liability, and I earnt on my last project an equivalent of $10.58 per hour...
And people believe professionals are all millionaires.
JP

Planning on it. Would have been useful if the senior on my previous project answered a lot of my why questions though. Kinda put me off after 12 months of "why are we doing this though?" "Don't ask just do/read the spec" and then being informed at my review I don't ask enough technical questions. Yay tangent.
In a matter of weeks on my new team I've learnt more than I did in a year, less the how (which is easy) and more the why, sharp learning curve here I come

[mash again]

The fitter vs electrician, electrician vs the Instrument tech vs the engineers debate will go on for ever and i have seen good and bad in all professions. It does seem interesting that there seem to be alot more graduates out there than before and experienced tradespeople are in strong demand in alot of areas. But in every trade there are different levels of expertise. I have seen PLC programmers that have come from a trade background that walk all over engineers and have also seen the opposite. take a look at these for some perspective, i nearly ****ed myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du6nYwPLBsw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcsoqIylmDI, I believe the next one will be an Instro VS Engineer.

[ryeman]

For those who are worried about their future I just added a thread on The Bar. - Steve Jobs, The Lost Interview a fascinating way of thinking, you might just get something out of it.