Engine from a generator into a vehicle?

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2013, 01:41 PM

Hey guys, I've got the opportunity to buy a 5.9L Cummins 6BT from a train fairly cheaply, they have been used as a generator from what I've been told.

These engines were also used commonly in Dodge RAM in the USA, is there any legislation that would be holding me back from using it in a vehicle?

Its a common conversion for those big American utes like F series/Silverado/RAM etc.

So far the differences are fuel pump I'm fairly sure, the rest of the engine is the same as the automotive version.

The year of the engine is 2003 ranging up to 2009 of the ones I have been offered, the vehicle in question is 2000/2001.

xisled · 17-09-2013, 02:35 PM

My guess you would have to get the car engineered and to pass all EPA requirements. Maybe speak to Vic roads or an Engineer.

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

My guess you would have to get the car engineered and to pass all EPA requirements. Maybe speak to Vic roads or an Engineer.

Even though the vehicle in question is diesel already and fitted with an engine of larger capacity?

Are there any engineers in Victoria who I can call to ask about this?

wodahs · 17-09-2013, 03:06 PM

I think xisled is suggesting and I believe it to be so over here that even tho the vehical still runs the same type of fuel being a newer type vehicles motor it may need to comply to newer emission regs , and another thing you may need to look at is if its a larger capacity motor you may still need it engineered as well

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2013, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodahs

I think xisled is suggesting and I believe it to be so over here that even tho the vehical still runs the same type of fuel being a newer type vehicles motor it may need to comply to newer emission regs , and another thing you may need to look at is if its a larger capacity motor you may still need it engineered as well

Ah yes, I get what you mean. I'll talk to the engineer we use at work for our vehicles and hopefully he can advise me further, is it just a normal automotive engineer I have to talk to or are there specific ones for example engine conversion engineer?

I'd be going down from 6.5L V8 to 5.9L I6, both turbo diesel.

JG66ME · 17-09-2013, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

So far the differences are fuel pump I'm fairly sure, the rest of the engine is the same as the automotive version.

Industrial engines, especially those used on Alternators, are set to a constant speed with a governor quite unsuitable for automotive use. They are usually set to a fixed 1800 rpm and they maintain those revs as load increases and decreases. Where as the truck version my rev to 2700 rpm this version may be lucky to get to 2000 rpm.

If I was you I would investigate the pump differences, if any, as getting the correct pump could be very expensive and it is likely that you would be able to modify the pump fitted to that engine. You need to speak to a Cummins expert. It may be possible to set the pump for automotive use.

My knowledge of Automotive vs Industrial and Tractor diesel engines is limited to Ford 590E, Ford Dover and Ford Dorset. I have twelve of them, lol.

Steven

Hulsty · 17-09-2013, 03:51 PM

Cam shaft could be different to suit the RPM range too.

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Industrial engines, especially those used on Alternators, are set to a constant speed with a governor quite unsuitable for automotive use. They are usually set to a fixed 1800 rpm and they maintain those revs as load increases and decreases. Where as the truck version my rev to 2700 rpm this version may be lucky to get to 2000 rpm.

If I was you I would investigate the pump differences, if any, as getting the correct pump could be very expensive and it is likely that you would be able to modify the pump fitted to that engine. You need to speak to a Cummins expert. It may be possible to set the pump for automotive use.

My knowledge of Automotive vs Industrial and Tractor diesel engines is limited to Ford 590E, Ford Dover and Ford Dorset. I have twelve of them, lol.

Steven

Currently investigating at the moment, so far we've established the industrial versions of them MAY be common rail, with the gear driven pump at the rear not suitable for automotive use. There are multiple industrial versions of this engine.

You are right about the pump, they spin at X RPM, so the pump will no doubt have to be changed.

I've got pick of about 30 engines so far.

On this one the pump appears to be at the front of the engine, but look at the oil filler neck and dip stick:

You could extend those to be up the top, right?

2011G6E · 17-09-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Industrial engines, especially those used on Alternators, are set to a constant speed with a governor quite unsuitable for automotive use. They are usually set to a fixed 1800 rpm and they maintain those revs as load increases and decreases. Where as the truck version my rev to 2700 rpm this version may be lucky to get to 2000 rpm.

If I was you I would investigate the pump differences, if any, as getting the correct pump could be very expensive and it is likely that you would be able to modify the pump fitted to that engine. You need to speak to a Cummins expert. It may be possible to set the pump for automotive use.

My knowledge of Automotive vs Industrial and Tractor diesel engines is limited to Ford 590E, Ford Dover and Ford Dorset. I have twelve of them, lol.

Steven

Bingo...beat me to it. Guys have found the same problem (narrow rev range) in the past building specials using airplane engines like Continental flat sixes out of old Cessnas...they're powerful, yes, but they're built to run pretty much in a narrow band of revs. Generator engines, even more so. They're designed to run at one speed, give or take a little, where they are most efficient.

Good luck with it though...

JG66ME · 17-09-2013, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Bingo...beat me to it. Guys have found the same problem (narrow rev range) in the past building specials using airplane engines like Continental flat sixes out of old Cessnas...they're powerful, yes, but they're built to run pretty much in a narrow band of revs. Generator engines, even more so. They're designed to run at one speed, give or take a little, where they are most efficient.

Good luck with it though...

Thing about AC alternators is the engine speed affects the frequency and voltage so they design the gen set to run at a rev range that the engine can maintain constant revs, typically at maximum torque.

My experience with the Ford engines I play with is they are used in trucks, tractors, industrial (compressors, pumps, combine harvesters and gen sets) and boats.

All have different speed control requirements.

wrongwaynorris · 17-09-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Bingo...beat me to it. Guys have found the same problem (narrow rev range) in the past building specials using airplane engines like Continental flat sixes out of old Cessnas...they're powerful, yes, but they're built to run pretty much in a narrow band of revs. Generator engines, even more so. They're designed to run at one speed, give or take a little, where they are most efficient.

Good luck with it though...

Generators in Australia with a 4 pole alternator will run at 1500 R.P.M to maintain 50 cycles ( Hz ) . They will have a fixed speed governor but it is a relatively simple exercise to change to a multi speed . Also if it has an Isochronous governor as many generator engines do remove that also . Any good pump shop will know how to do all this . here is the rub however as Generator Drive engines are designed to only run at one speed many have different cranks , conrods and camshafts as they do not need to respond like a multi speed engine .

CAMS290 · 17-09-2013, 08:31 PM

That is the 1st generation 6BT Cummins which is full mechanical and uses a Bosch rotary pump, the later type were the ISB which used a Bosch high pressure pump and different injectors and the latest type is still a ISB but uses common rail and full electronics.
Would be easy to change that from industrial to automotive spec I rekon.

CAMS290 · 17-09-2013, 08:34 PM

U can change the oil filler and dipstick locations easily, these motors were made to fit a variety of things, case tractors had them fitted, Blaw knox asphalt pavers had them too.

There should be a aluminium tag on the top of the timing cover with the specs on it.

Franco Cozzo · 18-09-2013, 09:21 AM

Might be the goer I reckon, these mechanical diesels pretty much just need power to their fuel shutoff solenoid and thats about it to get her running.

So minor modifications and she will be good to go, I'm seriously considering purchasing one as i can get it for a real good price.

Even if it doesn't go into one of my cars for a while, its a good project.

351EL · 18-09-2013, 06:21 PM

Damo I'm looking at these also.
If you swap the rotary pump for a p pump you have to change the injectors too they operate at different pressures.

tex · 18-09-2013, 06:41 PM

How many hours have these engines clocked?

What do they want for them?

Franco Cozzo · 19-09-2013, 12:24 PM

The 2003 models are $1750 with one rebuild already done up to $2650 for a 2009 model with no rebuilds.

Franco Cozzo · 19-09-2013, 03:44 PM

Here is a pic of prices:

I put down cash on a 2003 one, so minus 1 from the list

I can give you contact details via PM if anyone is interested in one.