Qld M1 speed limit to drop in busy periods

[Pedro]

"What this will allow Main Roads to do if they've got congestion 10 or 20 or 30 kilometres down the M1, they can reduce speeds further up and allow that congestion to free. During heavy traffic it will actually mean motorists will slow from 100 or 110 (km/h) back down to 80 or 90 and what that does is smooth out congestion." says Qld Govt.


With 60,000 cars a day travelling between Brisbane and the Gold Coast, can someone explain how "reducing speeds will free up congestion"?

It's nothing more than fobbing off the call for a second arterial road and with many of the 60,000 victims potentially driving over the lower limit, it presents further opportunity to "flash for cash".

[jpd80]

It just means it takes you a little longer to get to the traffic jam.
They keep going back to this idea that slowing the 110 kph io 100 kph
is better because they can carry more vehicles over the same distances.

I think it's a way for politicians to say we've changed slow gridlock traffic
to 40 kph or 50 kph - perception only. What they need to do is address all
the cars that enter the motorway in the southern suburbs of Brisbane, that's
where the choking is happening.

[cheap]

Slowing the traffic yeah that will work !!!! I wonder when it was the last time any of these expert politicians, director generals or senior consultants actually drove on the M1 or the Bruce or Western freeways during the ever extending peak hours?

Here is a hint, these major arterials are clogged for many hours of the day, vast sections are already at very slow speeds. Add the regular road accident and these roads are at total standstill.

The roads are a mess and so is the public transport system, this initiative is just more garbage window dressing. Upgrading the roads, adding public transport, decentralised work locations (especially the many CBD government departments) or more people working from home, these are solutions but they cost the government money to implement. Much easier to announce a nothing burger speed reduction meme.

[mick taylor]

Australia has to wake up and keep left unless over taking and the faster cars travel on the right, make the far right lane 130KM/H and no overtaking on the left
If you drive under 110 KM/H stay in the far left lane.

Problem is that people are so fearful of speeding that they become idiots and the speedos are out that far on many cars so 110KM/H reading is truly only 103 or so in a lot of new cars in fact and this causes problems as well, because they think that they are doing the speed limit and hog the right lane then another drip does the same in the next lane and people then overtake in the left lane to get past such plodding along, not to mention a lot of people must not know how to use the cruse control so they are slowing down and speeding up.
I think it's that people are not really paying attention or have the brain power to know what they are doing, they are just crap drivers.

Lowering the limit stops a lot of the variation of speeds that cause some of the problems.

most people will slow down due to people changing lanes etc problem is that most can only see the car ahead and are traveling to close, so they speed up slow down difference is going on and all, can make the slower option speed quicker due to all the buggering around of idiots, but it's only due to uneducated foolish bad drivers and also a fear of getting nabbed speeding that only adds to the problems.

If you have lanes that are to be driven faster in the right lane of you, most of the problems will go away and one should not ever pass on the left.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Right lane hogs are the bane of my existence. I wish I had James Bond style RPGs mounted behind my headlights so I could blast them out of my way.

[marty351]

I'll trade your rpgs for one of these...

[cs123]

The mathematics behind VSL and traffic management in general is pretty interesting.

VSL try to alter the traffic density and arrival rate into a congested area. Some algorithms work better than others and there are lots of research papers available to read to understand what they are trying to achieve.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by cs123

The mathematics behind VSL and traffic management in general is pretty interesting.

VSL try to alter the traffic density and arrival rate into a congested area. Some algorithms work better than others and there are lots of research papers available to read to understand what they are trying to achieve.

Can someone explain how decreasing the speed of travel can decrease congestion? All I know is anecdotally, traffic flows so much better during school holidays, when there are no 40 zones in operation... What does work though, is limiting how many cars can enter the motorway per minute by having a one vehicle per green light , on the the on-ramps, although it is perhaps moving the traffic jam off the motorway itself, which works very well for increasing road safety.

[eb2fairmont]

Geez if you guys are complaining about right lane hogs in Brisbane, try Adelaide. The left lane is the fast lane.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Can someone explain how decreasing the speed of travel can decrease congestion? .

from what I can gather the speed zones wouldn't be fixed, but electronically controlled. They are not suggesting to lower the speed limits as a permanent thing, but when the traffic starts to build up, if you lower the speed limits on the road xx amount of km before the congestion, the traffic takes longer to arrive.

I guess its a similar idea to pouring water in a funnel. if you slow down the water going in, the water doesn't back up as much.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Geez if you guys are complaining about right lane hogs in Brisbane, try Adelaide. The left lane is the fast lane.

I don't think any state is any better or worse than any others. all cars are driven by humans. humans are not very good at being patient, and that is only getting worse it seems, as selfishness is on the rise. everyone rates themselves and their time more important than the next guy.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Can someone explain how decreasing the speed of travel can decrease congestion? All I know is anecdotally, traffic flows so much better during school holidays, when there are no 40 zones in operation... What does work though, is limiting how many cars can enter the motorway per minute by having a one vehicle per green light , on the the on-ramps, although it is perhaps moving the traffic jam off the motorway itself, which works very well for increasing road safety.

Here you go. A link to a QLD study.

http://atrf.info/papers/2011/2011_Jiang_Chung_Lee.pdf

Conclusion

Important conclusions concerning the use of each type of VSL are as follows:
 Speed harmonisation VSL is a suitable management tool for high flow conditions, and
is suitable for motorway sections which have low ramp-density or where the ramp
flows are small;
 Speed buffering VSL can improve traffic safety and reduce secondary crashes under
queuing conditions. Simulation results also indicate that this VSL could contribute to
the clearance of incidents.

If you have a read it will cover high density on/off ramps as not a good combination for VSL.

Conclusions are summarised as follows. VSL is able to achieve speed harmonization and
better environmental impacts. However, it makes congestion more significant for the section
with high ramp-density and large ramp flows. Therefore, the speed harmonisation type of
VSL is suitable for those motorway sections which have low ramp-density or where the ramp
flows are small.

[Mercury Bullet]

I've been in the chopper many times sitting above freeway traffic jams.

Its amazing what the constant speed changes (concertina) does. I've seen 50km long jams. Stop that and you lose the frustrating 20km/h crawl or even worse the stop/start.

Good move imo.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

What does work though, is limiting how many cars can enter the motorway per minute by having a one vehicle per green light , on the the on-ramps, although it is perhaps moving the traffic jam off the motorway itself, which works very well for increasing road safety.

Love the 3 lane wide on-ramp Christmas trees! (Hardly ever lost one!)
Fantastic practice for my reaction and 60ft times!

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Pedro

It's nothing more than fobbing off the call for a second arterial road and with many of the 60,000 victims potentially driving over the lower limit, it presents further opportunity to "flash for cash".

Back in the early 1990's, the Wayne Goss government proposed exactly that (a second arterial road to the Gold Coast). It attracted so much political opposition that in the 1995 election, the Goss government lost the election by virtue of loosing six safe ALP seats on the Brisbane - Gold Coast corridor. The Nat-Lib went to the election proposing upgrading the existing four lane highway to what is now known as the M1 (they won the election).

Before that, in the late 1960's the Queensland Premier, Johannes Bjelke-Petersen, was heavily involved in creating what is now known as the South East Freeway. There was so much community opposition in the early 1970's to the freeway that the political fortunes of the Government plummeted. The proposed "radial-ring" freeway for the rest of Brisbane stop dead (also not helped by the Whitlam ALP federal government being anti-freeway and cutting of their part of the funding). The ABC in particular had a field day with their anti-freeway media coverage. Joh swore off doing more freeways ...

It is hard to imagine what Brisbane would be like without the South East Freeway. (It is also hard to imagine what Brisbane would be like with a decent freeway to the north and west.)

But the NIMBY backlash for a second road would be so severe, the pro-public transport would be so vocal, and the media would be so hype-critical that any government would have rocks in its head to do the sensible thing and suggest a second freeway.

So, what we are left with is the next best alternative. Make the existing assets sweat harder. While the underlying maths is complex, I think that intuitively we all understand the logic behind the variable speed restrictions. Particularly when one sees unthoughtful behaviours (aggressive lane changes, late braking, etc) by one individual that causes a concertina effect for kilometres. I don't think I have taken one trip on the M1 of late where we mysteriously come to a complete stop and then restart thanks to the concertina effect. (For some reason, this seems to be worst on the Brisbane - Gold Coast corridor than anywhere else.) Variable speed seems to be the best choice of poor options.

[lari1eye]

The cheapest solution to the daily traffic chaos.
Click some buttons on a computer.
As the Qld Government is on the verge of bankruptcy, this makes them look as though they are doing something.
The Qld Transport Minister....... lives within 10 klms of Brisbane City
The Qld Premier..................... " " " " " "
The Qld Treasurer.................. " " " " " "
The Qld Education Minister...... " " " " " "
These four ministers hold the most important ministries.
How they have any idea of traffic jams, distances for country kids to get to school each day, and the cost of these things is beyond me.
And people vote for them.
I will get off the box now. Happy Sunday. Larry

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Geez if you guys are complaining about right lane hogs in Brisbane, try Adelaide. The left lane is the fast lane.

I'm from Adelaide, so yeah, I know.

[Jack91]

Increasing or decreasing speed isn't the answer. Increase speed will cause way more accidents, decrease just spreads congestion over a larger area. There needs to be incentives for people to car pool or somehow get off the road. look around next time you're in a jam and you'll see 95% of the cars have 1 person in them. And also, Melbourne reduces limits down to 40, and closes a whole lane through the tunnel, over the wg bridge, in heavy congestion. So having to come down to 80 isn't really that bad.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by whynot

Back in the early 1990's, the Wayne Goss government proposed exactly that (a second arterial road to the Gold Coast). It attracted so much political opposition that in the 1995 election, the Goss government lost the election by virtue of loosing six safe ALP seats on the Brisbane - Gold Coast corridor. The Nat-Lib went to the election proposing upgrading the existing four lane highway to what is now known as the M1 (they won the election).

Before that, in the late 1960's the Queensland Premier, Johannes Bjelke-Petersen, was heavily involved in creating what is now known as the South East Freeway. There was so much community opposition in the early 1970's to the freeway that the political fortunes of the Government plummeted. The proposed "radial-ring" freeway for the rest of Brisbane stop dead (also not helped by the Whitlam ALP federal government being anti-freeway and cutting of their part of the funding). The ABC in particular had a field day with their anti-freeway media coverage. Joh swore off doing more freeways ...

It is hard to imagine what Brisbane would be like without the South East Freeway. (It is also hard to imagine what Brisbane would be like with a decent freeway to the north and west.)

But the NIMBY backlash for a second road would be so severe, the pro-public transport would be so vocal, and the media would be so hype-critical that any government would have rocks in its head to do the sensible thing and suggest a second freeway.

So, what we are left with is the next best alternative. Make the existing assets sweat harder. While the underlying maths is complex, I think that intuitively we all understand the logic behind the variable speed restrictions. Particularly when one sees unthoughtful behaviours (aggressive lane changes, late braking, etc) by one individual that causes a concertina effect for kilometres. I don't think I have taken one trip on the M1 of late where we mysteriously come to a complete stop and then restart thanks to the concertina effect. (For some reason, this seems to be worst on the Brisbane - Gold Coast corridor than anywhere else.) Variable speed seems to be the best choice of poor options.

Originally Posted by lari1eye

The cheapest solution to the daily traffic chaos.
Click some buttons on a computer.
As the Qld Government is on the verge of bankruptcy, this makes them look as though they are doing something.
The Qld Transport Minister....... lives within 10 klms of Brisbane City
The Qld Premier..................... " " " " " "
The Qld Treasurer.................. " " " " " "
The Qld Education Minister...... " " " " " "
These four ministers hold the most important ministries.
How they have any idea of traffic jams, distances for country kids to get to school each day, and the cost of these things is beyond me.
And people vote for them.
I will get off the box now. Happy Sunday. Larry

They are talking about doubling the population in SEQ in only so many years, boy I remember going to the Gold Coast in the 60's now look at it. So if we double what we have now how can we do that, nothing is done until the village idiot knows something has to be done.

You know that the Ipswich motorway had the chance of having 2 extra lanes added to both in bound and out lanes and they went for only one each way for the same cost, so they could of got an extra 2 lanes in all for the same price. not to mention some where to get off if there is a crash that blocks the whole highway.
Yes real bright thanks to our media spinning crap, must of been getting payed off for sure. so out there in the west of Brisbane you have a huge growth going on, so before long more money will have to be spent on up grading what was just done only a few years ago.

If this government people were in business for themselves they would be bankrupt before you know it, nothing but fools.