Diesel Terry?

[FlipXW]

I was just reading an article in the march 08 addition of 4x4 Australia mag. There is an article about Fords future secured with the development of the the research plant in Geelong so on and so forth. Now at the end it states that the 'orion' or FG Falcon is due for release in 08 which we all no then it says, ' As is a diesel powered Territory. The diesel is rumoured to be the Ford-PSA 2.7-litre TDV6 that powers the Land Rover Didcovery 3 and the Range rover Sport TDV6 model.

Is there any truth in this? Because this is exactly what the Terry needs. Should be really good if true.

[aye you]

hmmmm definatly will be a big boost for Ford if this is indeed true

[XR8putts]

Great if it's true, but I'll believe it when I see it.

A diesel Terri is about 3 years overdue IMO.

[FlipXW]

Not wrong. Its a 2.7-litre, double-overhead camshaft, 24-valve turbocharged diesel V6. 140 kW at 4000 rpm and 440 Nm at 1900 rpm. Thats the engine that will be used. IF this is true, really hope it is.

[Melchior3]

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

Not wrong. Its a 2.7-litre, double-overhead camshaft, 24-valve turbocharged diesel V6. 140 kW at 4000 rpm and 440 Nm at 1900 rpm. Thats the engine that will be used. IF this is true, really hope it is.

Damn, nice torque figures there. I'd certainly be interested in a diesel Territory. Here's hoping that Ford will do the smart thing...

[XR Martin]

I think the 3.6L TD V8 in the Range Rover would be a better choice.
200kw and 640Nm

[HenryV8]

Drive reckon the 2.7 gives around 11L/100km in the 2700kg Discovery. UK testers seem to confirm this with consumption

How would it go in a 2100kg Territory. 8-9L/100km?

[sgt_doofey]

Let's hope it has the towing capacity to match those torque figures.

[jlef5]

That would be a good engine for that car make it good little 4x4

[Mansal]

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

I was just reading an article in the march 08 addition of 4x4 Australia mag. There is an article about Fords future secured with the development of the the research plant in Geelong so on and so forth. Now at the end it states that the 'orion' or FG Falcon is due for release in 08 which we all no then it says, ' As is a diesel powered Territory. The diesel is rumoured to be the Ford-PSA 2.7-litre TDV6 that powers the Land Rover Didcovery 3 and the Range rover Sport TDV6 model.

Is there any truth in this? Because this is exactly what the Terry needs. Should be really good if true.

Also read somewhere that the same engine will eventually end up in both the Terry and Falcon in 2010. Herald Sun Drive's article, last Friday.

Turbo Diesel's the bomb! love driving my Focus TDCi

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

Not wrong. Its a 2.7-litre, double-overhead camshaft, 24-valve turbocharged diesel V6. 140 kW at 4000 rpm and 440 Nm at 1900 rpm. Thats the engine that will be used. IF this is true, really hope it is.

Sounds good however the Merc V6 Turbo Diesel as fitted in the Jeep Grande puts out 160 kw & 510 Nm though a 2.7 would be better than nothing :P & a V8 may not Fit & would weigh too much.

[FlipXW]

Does anyone know if there is truth behind this?

[Raptor]

It'll happen eventually though I think 2008 is being a bit optomistic, maybe in 2009 along with a facelift.

I would think the limited Ford Aus engineering resources would have been stretched getting Orion over the line in 2008 and it's asking too much to also get the diesel Terri up in the same year. Remember they are also working on the global replacement for Courier/Ranger/Mazda BT pickups with the T6 program.

Though we can always hope

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I think the 3.6L TD V8 in the Range Rover would be a better choice.
200kw and 640Nm

Won't fit. This engine has a limited future, unless Ford can do two things with it. 1) Get it to fit into the new Jaguar XJ. 2) Get it to pass Euro5. As it stands today, Ford can't get the TDV8 into the Jaguar XF, which could give them an XF-SD.

Territory (and Falcon) will get the PSA 2.7 (or 3.0) TDV6, which will be more than adequate for Territory. I'll be lining up to get one.

[FlipXW]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Won't fit. This engine has a limited future, unless Ford can do two things with it. 1) Get it to fit into the new Jaguar XJ. 2) Get it to pass Euro5. As it stands today, Ford can't get the TDV8 into the Jaguar XF, which could give them an XF-SD.

Territory (and Falcon) will get the PSA 2.7 (or 3.0) TDV6, which will be more than adequate for Territory. I'll be lining up to get one.

Have any idea when?

[XR Martin]

If a 5.4DOHC can fit into a Falcon (which is one of the biggest engines on the market) then the 3.6L TD V8 should be snap.

[Tote]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Won't fit. This engine has a limited future, unless Ford can do two things with it. 1) Get it to fit into the new Jaguar XJ. 2) Get it to pass Euro5. As it stands today, Ford can't get the TDV8 into the Jaguar XF, which could give them an XF-SD.

Territory (and Falcon) will get the PSA 2.7 (or 3.0) TDV6, which will be more than adequate for Territory. I'll be lining up to get one.

Isn't a 4 litre version of the tdv8 mooted for the F100 in 2010?
Regards,
Tote

[Swordsman88]

More on the issue of diesel engines in falcon/territory is discussed in the carpoint article. Link: http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2898187.aspx

Looks like the 2.7 might be a bit on the small side. I would say the rumoured 3.0 litre development would be good, but a new Ford US diesel is apparently a possibility. I think Holden are looking at a 3.0 litre VM Motori diesel for commodore, so ford will want something bigger (and cheaper/newer) than the 2.7 jag/land rover diesel (though it is very good).

Even though torque is what matters with diesels, to haul a loaded territory and/or tow you will need a big torque advantage over the petrol to get even 'decent' response. Otherwise it will just feel too doughy (though still get the job done i suppose). The article also mentions the possible arrival of an escape replacement with a smaller diesel (can anyone say Ford Kuga...it will have a 2.0 L diesel (same as mondeo/focus) according to Ford Europe).

[chevypower]

The 2.7 is getting upgraded to 3.0 for the Land Rover and for the Jags. I believe there will be single and twin turbo versions. 4.4L V8 version based on the 3.6L is currently being set up for mass production at Ford's Chihuahua, Mexico plant (for F150, Expedition and Lincoln Navigator, along side a 6.7L V8 diesel (based on the same technology) for Ford's Super Duty F-Series trucks.
I would expect Ford Aus to wait for the 3.0L TDV6 (based on the old 2.7) around 180kw/550Nm
and IF they use a V8 version, I would expect it to be the 4.4L around 245kw/720-750Nm

[ED Classic]

To be honest the 2.7 or hopfully 3.0 is the go as you still want to bring the car in at a simmilar price. I dont think Ford of Austr look at having the same price point as an X5 no matter how good the engine is.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by puts99

Great if it's true, but I'll believe it when I see it.

A diesel Terri is about 3 years overdue IMO.

You got that right, They are peanuts if they wait till 2010 to do it! It should be here ASAP as its way way overdue. I know so many people that say they would buy one in a flash and original Territory sales levels would still be maintained (ATLEAST but probably way more) if they had one now.

Holden are already (long been) working on a Diesel V6 for Commodore it will probably beat not only Falcon but Territory.

MUCH MUCH more important than any cosmetic changes or equiptment upgrades.

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by chevypower

The 2.7 is getting upgraded to 3.0 for the Land Rover and for the Jags. I believe there will be single and twin turbo versions. 4.4L V8 version based on the 3.6L is currently being set up for mass production at Ford's Chihuahua, Mexico plant (for F150, Expedition and Lincoln Navigator, along side a 6.7L V8 diesel (based on the same technology) for Ford's Super Duty F-Series trucks.
I would expect Ford Aus to wait for the 3.0L TDV6 (based on the old 2.7) around 180kw/550Nm
and IF they use a V8 version, I would expect it to be the 4.4L around 245kw/720-750Nm

When is the 3.0 due for production??? Those outputs would be very competitive, if thats what they are produced with.... and get incredibly healthy fuel consumption.....

[HenryV8]

Just read this on Ford Insider:

Australian consumers actually bought more large cars in 2007 than they did in 2006 and this is a segment in which we want to compete. The all-new FG Falcon offers the ideal combination of stylish design, package, performance, safety and real world fuel economy, all of which will appeal to large car customers. We are also investigating the possibility of incorporating a diesel engine in our locally produced vehicles. In the meantime, we continue to offer the only Australian built dedicated LPG powered vehicles – our E-Gas engine is available across a number of models in the Falcon range and offers benefits in both cost of ownership and emissions. Also, our entire local petrol product range is E10 compatible. – Bill Osborne, President, Ford Australia.

Ford Insider

[chevypower]

Martyvan, the current 2.7 is 3rd generation common rail (outdated). I was making an educated guess on power and torque, given that most diesels of the same size and same generation of common rail injection will give similar power and torque regardless of the brand. Current is 5th Generation development.

eg: 3rd Gen CR Land Rover/Jag 2.7 TDV6 = 140kw/440Nm (52kw/L & 163Nm/L)
3rd Gen CR Mercedes/Chrysler 3.0L V6 CRD = 160kw/510Nm (53kw/L & 170Nm/L)

5th Generation CR Nissan/Renault 3.0L V6 diesel = 195kw/550Nm (65kw/L & 183Nm/L)
5th Generation CR GM 2.9L V6 Diesel = 184kw / 550Nm (63.5kw/L & 189.7Nm/L)

I have read from a few sources that the LR/Jag is upping the 2.7 to 3.0 soon (but I don't know when that will be), and you can bet it will be 5th Generation Common Rail injection also. I hope this makes enough sense.

[Martyvan]

Makes more than enough sense... I'm a big fan of diesel's having spent plenty of time in Europe!! I just wish decisions were made easier by the availability of these engines right now, in Australian Built Fords! The packaging is right in the Territory, but going on my the use of my old mans Territory over time, he is averaging just under 16l/100km in his, so that makes the decision hard.... Diesel on the other hand.....

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

but going on my the use of my old mans Territory over time, he is averaging just under 16l/100km in his, so that makes the decision hard.... Diesel on the other hand.....

I know so many people with that exact complaint and as I said up the page a few people that would buy one today except for that.

A mate Ive mine has a new top of the range Diesel Hilux with all the heavy extras (bull bar etc) and gets 9litres per 100km city driving, and Ive always wondered how these 4wd's are so popular now I know.

[McobraR]

Taken from Carsales:
http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/2898187.aspx


New Territory diesel before 2010, but which one? (February 2008)

1 photos available - click to enlarge

Words -
Joe Kenwright


The diesel engine for Ford's mid-sized SUV is probably still on the drawing board or bench-testing

Ford's highest priority for any Territory upgrade is still a diesel version. Several Ford senior managers have acknowledged that this can't wait until the 2010 switch to V6 petrol engines. While it's widely assumed that the Jaguar-LandRover-Peugeot 2.7-litre diesel is the obvious choice, it is also expensive and midway through its development life. It is now looking more likely that the Territory's diesel engine is so new that it hasn't been released yet.

Ford Australia has now acknowledged that the five-cylinder Volvo diesel was under consideration. Though a worthy powerplant, with 136kW/400Nm from just 2.4-litres, it is not muscular enough for the 2000kg Territory once its seven full-sized seats are filled and its 2300kg towing capacity is factored in.

Last week, Ford sources confirmed that Ford intends to strengthen Territory's competitive position as an alternative not only to the bigger softroaders such as the Toyota Kluger but also as an alternative (at least in hauling power and cabin capacity) to the dedicated heavy-duty 4X4 wagons such as the Toyota Prado and full-sized LandCruiser/Nissan Patrol.

As part of this strategy, the Ford Escape will need to be replaced with a new compact SUV with diesel that is able to take the battle to the Honda CR-V/Subaru Forester/Nissan X-Trail.

The clear inference here is that the new diesel under the Territory bonnet would therefore need to be larger rather than smaller. This would dictate a capacity of at least 3.0 to 4.0-litres, almost certainly a V6 and therefore one that has yet to appear under Ford bonnets. It would need to deliver at least 150kW and 575Nm if it is to thread the eye of the needle, with Prado below and LandCruiser above.

The Carsales Network's source explained that if another Ford division were building a business case for an all-new diesel, Ford Australia's needs would very much be in the frame to build up numbers.

The obvious buoyancy in mood from the Ford executives at the FG launch whenever discussion turned to a diesel-powered Falcon, suggests that an exciting new diesel powerplant along these lines has been undergoing parallel development in a number of Ford vehicles.

The possibilities include a re-engineered (and cheaper) 3.0 to 3.2-litre version of the PSA-sourced 2.7-litre V6 diesel, a cheaper version of the twin-turbo 3.6-litre V8 diesel derived from this 2.7 V6, or an all-new direct-injection engine developed for the US based on the same technology and built at a competitive location.

When there are numerous Lincoln and Ford passenger cars, along with a wide range of SUVs, MPVs and light commercials in the Ford, Mazda and Volvo worlds with similar performance and load-lugging requirements as those of the Territory, these extra volumes would support a state-of-art diesel engine at a far more competitive price than the current 2.7-litre turbo out of Europe.

This engine would also be on offer to the new owners of Jaguar for further volume.

The Carsales Network believes that Ford's Australian engineering team is already working on such a diesel at a number of levels. The engine is possibly destined for the upper levels of the global T6 light commercial that is being developed locally.

And here's the biggie... Also expect a new diesel of at least 3.0-litres in capacity with a relatively simple single-turbocharger installation combined with common rail, direct-injection. So what are the choices?

Ford US

Plans for a totally new Ford 4.4-litre V8 diesel were leaked as early as 2006 with a completion date in 2009, about the time of the projected Territory Diesel launch. This US engine to be developed internally by Ford for the US market and potential European models, is intended to bridge the gap between US and European technology.

Although it draws on Ford's European 3.6-litre turbo diesel V8 technology, its primary purpose is to replicate the power and torque of the 6.0-litre Powerstroke diesel for the F-series without the weight and size so it can also power the corporation's larger SUVs and passenger cars.

The significance of this new engine is not only its state-of-the art Euro technology but it will mark the end of Ford's reliance on an outside supplier for its US diesel engines. This is especially important to Australia.

When previously there was no reason for Ford Australia to seek diesel engines from Ford's US supplier over any other outside global supplier, this all changes when the internal Ford group responsible for the new engine would be actively selling the new engine across Ford's global divisions. By combining volumes for those markets with similar requirements, different versions of the new engine suddenly become viable.

Back in 2006, there was speculation that it would be built at Ford's Dagenham diesel manufacturing centre from Brazilian compacted graphite iron blocks and then shipped back to the US.

Since then, Mexico has also been listed as a potential site when projected volumes have escalated dramatically since it was first planned. One possible outcome is that both centres could end up producing variations of this engine. Suddenly, combined Australian volumes for Falcon and Territory versions start to add up.

This of course raises the question whether there will be cheaper, lower capacity V8 versions or bigger V6 derivatives. The 4.4-litre version minus two cylinders brings it back to 3.1-litres, about the right size for several Ford models.

In 4.4-litre turbocharged specification it is expected to offer 240-250kW and around 700Nm in torque, desirable for an FPV buyer perhaps but overkill for most Territory buyers.

Ford UK

After Ford's European engineers designed the highly successful 2.7-litre V6 diesel fitted to various Jaguar-Land Rover-Peugeot-Citroen models, the company has since gone one better with a new development of this engine. A new 3.6-litre V8 diesel which shares the bore and stroke of the original 2.7 V6 went into production in Ford's Dagenham plant in April 2006.

In twin-turbocharger form this compact V8 diesel delivers almost 200kW and 640Nm, figures closer to what Territory buyers would expect. However, in a simpler and cheaper single turbo specification it would hit the target power and torque figures comfortably.

The only wildcard in either of the above Ford US or UK scenarios is whether the new diesel engine, which has yet to surface in a V6 or V8 specification suited to Territory requirements and pricing, will first appear in the Territory or another Ford. If Ford Australia chooses to wait for the new engine to be revealed in another Ford model, then the projected launch date would be pushed out to later in 2009.

If the new diesel required Ford's five speed auto as fitted to the FG Falcon, Ford Australia would need to modify the Territory's floor pan to accept the new transmission before the new V6 petrol engines arrived in 2010. If this is required, suggested one Ford engineer, then it would be much easier to add the new transmission to the current in-line six cylinder petrol engine as an interim measure.

[aquahead2001]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

I know so many people with that exact complaint and as I said up the page a few people that would buy one today except for that.

A mate Ive mine has a new top of the range Diesel Hilux with all the heavy extras (bull bar etc) and gets 9litres per 100km city driving, and Ive always wondered how these 4wd's are so popular now I know.

Not just the fuel economy , but also the tax implications that drives the Ute Market....

We've got a Territory TS AWD with 6 speed Auto and it's getting about 13L/100km compared to 14.3L/100km from the AUII Fairmont Wagon (4.0L) it replaced.

We were expecting around 15-16L/100km so are pretty wrapped!

[chevypower]

MCobraR, I still bet it's the 3.0L V6 Common Rail 5 (I dont know of any other similar sized diesel in the Ford world) for Ford Aus. 4.4L V8 minus 2 cyl would be 3.3L not 3.1L. I could see a 4.0L V8 happen for Range Rover / Jag produced at Dagenham UK, but not for any of the US/Aus Fords. I would suspect if the Mexican plant builds a V6 diesel (and I am sure it will), whether it be 3.0 or 3.3, this would be what Ford Aus gets, as the production costs will be much lower than from UK. The Mexican produced 4.4L V8 will be cheaper to produce than the 4.0 V8? replacement for the 3.6 from Dagenham. I can't see the Mexican engines making way in to Range Rover / Jag, because that just would not be "British."

[XFordFantomX]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but there has been for the last couple of years a Territory with a diesel engine driving around Geelong. The engine is a modified straight 6 from the Geelong engine plant.