all modified car owners.......tell me what u think

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 09:37 PM

howdy peoples,
i have a problem people and its been bugging me for some time now. I dont know wether this is the best area on this website to put this on but hey everyone will have a read...(maybe one of the moderates will move it and put a sticky on it??)

motoring enthusiasts(hoons as perceived by media and ignorant pr*cks) have a bad image problem. media, public and polictians love to beat up on us. yet we pay a huge amount on vehicles. everything from finance, cpt, rego, petrol, tyres etc etc. yet we have no one to come out and state "not this is not right" or a lobby group that really protects our interests. no one is out there willing to put a defamation case into the courts against police, pollie or some idiot like Harold Scruby(the president of the pedestrian council of australia) who likes to get on TV and bleat every time someone goes over the speed limit by 2k/ph

heres just a couple of articles of that fantastic website News.com
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/com...45-2761,00.html

now some of these comments border on total control and dictatorship of what we like doing with OUR Money

what i was thinking is starting up a website (something along the lines of Road users group of australia, otr if u guys can think of something) and inviting all people who use forums(not just thine one, but full boost, commodore ones etc to log on and start a group that actually has a voice.

i think one of the reasons we dont get looked after is the fact we are not as organised as these other groups eg. Pedestrian coucil of australia.

let me know what u guys think. any ideas, comments, emails would be greatly appreciated

cheers
Talal

Daymoe · 28-10-2008, 09:43 PM

Link doesn't work mate.

**Burnout** · 28-10-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Link doesn't work mate.

True, an inauspicious start to an otherwise popular thread.....................

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:02 PM

lol my apologies. i have found it again
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/stor...5-2761,00.html

there was like 500+ responses to this article....

Daymoe · 28-10-2008, 10:09 PM

Interesting article, i wouldn't class "High powered cars" as V8s though.

Jack91 · 28-10-2008, 10:09 PM

So you mean a website/group of people defending P platers and people with loud cars? Probably wouldnt work, as the only members would be us P platers.

edit: I misunderstood what you said, but it probably still wouldnt work. If you had both sorts of people on there (ie - bored soccer mums in prado's that do 40 in 60 zones and then 18 year olds in rice that sit on the speed limit or just over) it would be a constant fight.

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-10-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

lol my apologies. i have found it again
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/stor...5-2761,00.html

there was like 500+ responses to this article....

The article concentrates on P plate drivers not modified car owners as a whole.

Why do P platers see these issues as a personal attack, it's only for a few years whilst still learning not a lifetime.

Nikked · 28-10-2008, 10:10 PM

I do agree that there is harsh treatment against modified car owners. thats all i have to say.

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:23 PM

i think some are missing the point, im only using this article as a response tool. its not a lobby group for p platers. its a lobby group for drivers as a whole , specifically aimed at the performance car culture. every few weeks there is an article on "hoons" , "dangerous drivers" "drivers flouting safety laws" etc etc and every time one of these comes out theres a pic of some car doing a burnout. when really was the last time you guys saw a pollie come out and look after your interests? we pay thru the a**hole for the privelige of driving on roads. we all know a decent exhaust is actually better for te enviroment as a free breathing car actually has less emissions. we all know a slightly lowered car doesnt mean you are going to crash into a bus stop as soon as the key is in the ignition. why should we always all be tarred with the same brush for the effects of the few? milton orkpolous was a pollie who was a pedo. if we ran around calling all pollies pedo how qquick would we be put thru the courts for defamation? before you guys say that an extreme example, yes it is, buts its only an example

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:25 PM

whoops edit* you guys alrady made the distinction, delete my first line and go with the rest... racv does nothing for us. raa does nothing etc etc. if harold scruby can have a voice and he doesnt knwo what he is talking about half the time, why cant we?

Auslandau · 28-10-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The article concentrates on P plate drivers not modified car owners as a whole.

Why do P platers see these issues as a personal attack, it's only for a few years whilst still learning not a lifetime.

I agree with that ..... but I read it as:
P platers that drive V8's, or modified cars are ALL hoons and need them confiscated and sold!

Its the flow on that effects many that's starting to really get to me. Those who drives modified, loud, cars that are being branded as hoons. If you drive a V8, you must be a hoon. Why else would you drive one! Its a perseption that is being pushed hard at them moment ..... and is very one sided. Sometimes I'll give it a squirt but most of the time I really do behave impeccably

Boy I hate that word 'Hoon'. Its getting thrown around way too much at the moment

| [/url] |

Jack91 · 28-10-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

i think some are missing the point, im only using this article as a response tool. its not a lobby group for p platers. its a lobby group for drivers as a whole , specifically aimed at the performance car culture. every few weeks there is an article on "hoons" , "dangerous drivers" "drivers flouting safety laws" etc etc and every time one of these comes out theres a pic of some car doing a burnout. when really was the last time you guys saw a pollie come out and look after your interests? we pay thru the a**hole for the privelige of driving on roads. we all know a decent exhaust is actually better for te enviroment as a free breathing car actually has less emissions. we all know a slightly lowered car doesnt mean you are going to crash into a bus stop as soon as the key is in the ignition. why should we always all be tarred with the same brush for the effects of the few? milton orkpolous was a pollie who was a pedo. if we ran around calling all pollies pedo how qquick would we be put thru the courts for defamation? before you guys say that an extreme example, yes it is, buts its only an example

Yeah, we all know its stupid, but it aint gonna change.

ltd_on20s · 28-10-2008, 10:36 PM

exactly auslandau. thats the point im trying to get across.....

oxford english dictionary for "hoon"

hoon
Austral./NZ informal

• noun a lout.

• verb behave like a lout.

— ORIGIN of unknown origin

it doesnt even relate to us!!

schnoods · 28-10-2008, 11:05 PM

All these overpowered cars and yet no one ever remembers the excel that crashed in a power pole at 65kmhr and killed a young p plater woman. Or a "agreessive" driver in a camry that was speeding excessively...

At least the v8 does have decent brakes and suspension. But i would question why a p plater would need/have a v8 .

Bushbasher · 29-10-2008, 08:22 AM

I don't drive a "modified" car at the moment but I agree that tarring everyone with the same brush is just wrong. It'd be more sensable to say you can have the cars but the first time you get caught doing stupid speeds* or smoking it up in the middle of an intersection etc. then you lose your car and we sell it. Taking the parents car first time up is a bit harsh; maybe put the parents on notice that next time idiot driver gets caught driving the car it's gone, that way they'd ban said idiot from driving it.

Bushbasher

*stupid speeds would have to be more than just getting pinged for being 5-10ks' over the limit, say anything more than 20km/h over for example.

Bad Bird · 29-10-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

But i would question why a p plater would need/have a v8 .

Why does anyone need a V8?

prydey · 29-10-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Why does anyone need a V8?

why does anyone need more than 4 bedrooms in a house? why does anyone need a 6 burner bbq? why does anyone need....

seriously, what sort of question is that. its personal choice and the day people stop being allowed to make their own choices seems to be coming with increasing speed.

i could drive around in a bf xt and not be judged but if i had an e series v8 all of a sudden i would be viewed differently. the facts remain as far as car performance goes, the bf has more power and torque and is quicker all round.

i drive a modified v8 and as auslandau has said, it really does start to get frustrating when we all get tarred with the same brush.

RG · 29-10-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Why does anyone need a V8?

Because I want one, I paid for one and I choose to have one.

Why doesn't EVERYONE need a V8 is the question.

azaxr8 · 29-10-2008, 09:27 AM

I am a P plater driving a ba xr8. Had it for just under 12 months now. I'm still alive. Go figure?

manxman · 29-10-2008, 09:32 AM

I do remember my early driving & riding. I couldn't afford to hoon around, as I had to do my own repairs, and pay for my own rare parts. I learned to drive moderately, and avoid that which would cost me time or money I wanted to spend elsewhere. Perhaps young people are relatively richer now than than I was then, but self denial is not often taught in society these days, and young peoples brains are still forming whilst they get their first license.

I don't mind modified cars-on the track-not the road. Public roads are not racetracks, and must not be treated like them. It's too risky, and the ambos/fireys are too often too far away to help out in time. Just because one person can control a vehicle at high speed, doesn't mean any others can too, and pedestrians have rights and needs. All drivers MUST know that 'the unexpected' is a frequent & normal occurrence, and drive accordingly.

It's your money, as you say, & you are free to spend it as you please. You are to drive within the laws of the land, which are made for the common good. You are also free to campain for change to the law. We do live in a democracy!

I spend some of my cash on a dirt bike, and then I travel to an approved recreational area to ride it. I could zip it around the roads quite easily, but I don't, I go to the appropriate place to run my sports machine. I accept the extra cost of transporting it to & from, and I am pro-active by having good communications access whilst there, and I NEVER go alone. Even so, I do not abandon all restraints when there, because it's a shared area with inexperienced/careless minors, and there are blind corners, trees, rocks and treacherous surfaces-making caution necessary. It's not a racetrack either, and tho' several other ride as if it is, I choose not to. We've had several fatalities there over recent years, people riding too hard, or too carelessly. Many of them ride very selfishly, raising dust without regard for others, esp the quad riders & 4WD's-who often rip up the access roads (with their doughnuts) and turn everything into corrugations and irrepairable dust bowls.

manxman · 29-10-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaxr8

I am a P plater driving a ba xr8. Had it for just under 12 months now. I'm still alive. Go figure?

Rules are both proven and disproven by the exceptions. You may have been fortunate, or you may have been wise, but arrogance will get you no-where. Unfortunately, the accident statistics force certain conclusions-and whilst there are individual exceptions, licensing authorities are not reliable fortune tellers, and they have to take precautions according to the perceived risk to the general population. I believe that P platers MUST be restricted in KW, cylinders and GVM, and also passenger types and numbers 4 Cars & m/cycles. Actually, I believe in progressively punative intelligent speed limiters, which will allow a limited blast over 110kph, then hold you at, say, 105 for a while, and the more you ride the governor, the longer & lower the permitted max speed. The insurance companies should be demanding such to be fitted and working to qualify for payout. The technology is already available, and cheap!

ltd_on20s · 29-10-2008, 11:22 AM

Loving some of the responses here. should driver training be incorperated into getting your license? skidpan?night driving? evasive action training? is it worth us having a voice?

4Vman · 29-10-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman

Rules are both proven and disproven by the exceptions. You may have been fortunate, or you may have been wise, but arrogance will get you no-where. Unfortunately, the accident statistics force certain conclusions-and whilst there are individual exceptions, licensing authorities are not reliable fortune tellers, and they have to take precautions according to the perceived risk to the general population. I believe that P platers MUST be restricted in KW, cylinders and GVM, and also passenger types and numbers 4 Cars & m/cycles. Actually, I believe in progressively punative intelligent speed limiters, which will allow a limited blast over 110kph, then hold you at, say, 105 for a while, and the more you ride the governor, the longer & lower the permitted max speed. The insurance companies should be demanding such to be fitted and working to qualify for payout. The technology is already available, and cheap!

Well said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

Loving some of the responses here. should driver training be incorperated into getting your license? skidpan?night driving? evasive action training? is it worth us having a voice?

Driver training is already part of getting your license...
Its fine to have a voice, but for that voice to carry value or worth its will "sound louder" with many years of experience behind it...

Plugg3r · 29-10-2008, 11:37 AM

It's BS..

I'm 18 and own a XR6 Turbo utility.
Now i haven't crashed in 3 yrs of driving, nor have been close to.
Sure I get the urges to give her a tromping and watch the old speedo go of tits.
But even my 45yr old father does that :P

Stupid politicians and there small minds!

Now the P Plate crash statistics, what do they state for 4cyl, 6cyl and 8cyl..
I'd dare dare 4cyl will probably be the highest.

Glad im of my P's now.. Good old NT!

4Vman · 29-10-2008, 11:45 AM

Got to love the theory that because a few people can manage to drive safely or avoid issue with it then the rest must automatically be ok with it and mature/experienced enough too....

Oh, wouldnt it also stand to reason that statistically the incident of P platers having accidents in V8's and high powered cars is low because they're not legally allowed to drive them in the first place??!!

SM1DY · 29-10-2008, 11:52 AM

1. Selling a car that belongs to a parent is a bit excessive. A person can't be punished because one of their idiot kids takes their car.

2. If a car was to be comprehensively insured, then I think a P-Plater should be allowed to drive whatever car they like. If they're stupid enough to speed and write it off because they were being stupid, then they're going to have to continue pay for any costs they are out-of-pocket eg. Increase of premiums and an inflated excess.

3. It's not hard to find a defensive driving course in your local area, if you think your responsible enough to have your license then your more than capable to attend one of these courses.

4Vman · 29-10-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

1. Selling a car that belongs to a parent is a bit excessive. A person can't be punished because one of their idiot kids takes their car.

Maybe they're trying to put more pressure and ownership back onto parents for their kids behavior and upbringing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

2. If a car was to be comprehensively insured, then I think a P-Plater should be allowed to drive whatever car they like. If they're stupid enough to speed and write it off because they were being stupid, then they're going to have to continue pay for any costs they are out-of-pocket eg. Increase of premiums and an inflated excess.

That's all good and well till said P Plater looses control of dads F6 through an over exhuberant right foot and plows through your wife and kids innocently coming the otherway killing them..

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

3. It's not hard to find a defensive driving course in your local area, if you think your responsible enough to have your license then your more than capable to attend one of these courses.

Agreed, there are plenty of defensive driver courses available for everyone, people should take responsibility for their own ability.

ltd_on20s · 29-10-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Got to love the theory that because a few people can manage to drive safely or avoid issue with it then the rest must automatically be ok with it and mature/experienced enough too....

Oh, wouldnt it also stand to reason that statistically the incident of P platers having accidents in V8's and high powered cars is low because they're not legally allowed to drive them in the first place??!!

only in some states are they not allowed to drive v8's, SA you still can.
look we all know that v8's can be dangerous and maybe not the best thing in the hands of "inexpreienced drivers", but a decent cam/lifters/5sped gearbox and a set of 3.9s can make any car launch pretty hard.
"isnt everyone "inexperienced" when the first drive a v8? should buying a v8 come with compulsory 20 hour defensive training above what we already have??

4Vman · 29-10-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

only in some states are they not allowed to drive v8's, SA you still can.
look we all know that v8's can be dangerous and maybe not the best thing in the hands of "inexpreienced drivers", but a decent cam/lifters/5sped gearbox and a set of 3.9s can make any car launch pretty hard.
"isnt everyone "inexperienced" when the first drive a v8? should buying a v8 come with compulsory 20 hour defensive training above what we already have??

I think the problem is more the lack of maturity than just experience.....
I have no problem accepting any licensed driver could safely navigate a high powered car around without issue if properly supervised, restrained or just driven sensibly, the problem comes when temptation over rides common sense....

SM1DY · 29-10-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's all good and well till said P Plater looses control of dads F6 through an over exhuberant right foot and plows through your wife and kids innocently coming the otherway killing them..

My mistake, I was trying to convay that this was reliant on the car being registered and insured in the name of the P-Plate driver.