My first drive of an EcoBoost vehicle

[chevypower]

Well I went to Salt Lake Auto Show today, Ford had a thing outside where we could drive a number of vehicles on the road. I already have a 5.4L 3valve F150, so we took a 5.4L Expedition, F350 6.4L twin turbo V8 diesel, and a Ford Flex EcoBoost V6. I am very familiar with driving a lot of V8s both in the US and Australia. Let me just say the Flex was FAST! You could tap the throttle gently and feel an instant push in your seat, from the slightest feather-weight tap, punch it half way down and you are feeling like you are in a very fast car. Nail it, and the speedo just raced up quickly... This 7 passenger cross-over felt like a race car. I am very impressed. Not even the slightest hint of any turbo-lag whatsoever, this powerplant is a torque monster and feels like it never wants to slow down. The 5.4 in comparison, feels like a dinosaur. The 5.4, kind of snappy off the line, down low, the EB V6, has plenty of go all over the place. I just had to say this engine impressed me a whole lot more than I was expecting, and the funny thing is, in these FWD-based crossovers and cars, the EB V6 is detuned!!!

[Wretched]

I am very keen on this new TT V6, very keen to see how it goes in the Falcon.

[TP351]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I am very keen on this new TT V6, very keen to see how it goes in the Falcon.

I think you may be waiting a while.......................

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I am very keen on this new TT V6, very keen to see how it goes in the Falcon.

In effect, it is just a matter of time till you have that chance.

Its still early days on the ecoboost tech in production applications (i.e. atcually on sale) but its already looking very very impressive.

For example, look at the recent Ford S Max with 2.0 EB I4 in europe. It has a quoted fuel burn of 8.1L/100km. That is in a pretty heavy people mover with dodgy aero.

This EB 4 cylinder falcon will murder this 3.0 SIDI commodore. Just murder it. 330nm at 1500rpm with a short 1st gear in a 6sp auto, with a weight saving of 40-50kg over what we have now. Yeah....good time to be a Holden fan..... :

[Swordsman88]

See above^^^

Originally Posted by TP351

I think you may be waiting a while.......................

I6 will make it to the next generation (2014/2015) but the global platform would be an easy opportunity to pension it off. Im as sad about that as the next guy but its the way of things. Plus, plenty of evidence from the states to illustrate that what we will be getting will get the job done quite nicely....

[starkey]

Bring on the boost, thanks for the write up.

[Ohio XB]

I think the lack of turbo-lag, and getting maximum torque at 1,500 RPM and continuing on up is going to make an aweful lot of converts.


Steve

[merlin]

As much as I love the current I6, this Ecoboost certainly sounds like it delivers just as well.

[TUF_302]

Originally Posted by merlin

As much as I love the current I6, this Ecoboost certainly sounds like it delivers just as well.

Certainly does!

[fromBAonwards]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

In effect, it is just a matter of time till you have that chance.

Its still early days on the ecoboost tech in production applications (i.e. atcually on sale) but its already looking very very impressive.

For example, look at the recent Ford S Max with 2.0 EB I4 in europe. It has a quoted fuel burn of 8.1L/100km. That is in a pretty heavy people mover with dodgy aero.

This EB 4 cylinder falcon will murder this 3.0 SIDI commodore. Just murder it. 330nm at 1500rpm with a short 1st gear in a 6sp auto, with a weight saving of 40-50kg over what we have now. Yeah....good time to be a Holden fan..... :

The BA and BF make over 95% of their peak torque at 1500rpm, but have a taller 1st gear for 4 speed auto variants.

Still , so far I've dragged a few Di V6 commos, and they had no chance, they keep up to 50 and then i slowly pull away.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

See above^^^


I6 will make it to the next generation (2014/2015) but the global platform would be an easy opportunity to pension it off. Im as sad about that as the next guy but its the way of things. Plus, plenty of evidence from the states to illustrate that what we will be getting will get the job done quite nicely....

Come 2015 I can't see Ford designing a new platform to take 2 different 6 cylinder engines. 99% it will be V6.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by fromBAonwards

The BA and BF make over 95% of their peak torque at 1500rpm, but have a taller 1st gear for 4 speed auto variants.

Still , so far I've dragged a few Di V6 commos, and they had no chance, they keep up to 50 and then i slowly pull away.

But wait till you drag a 3.6 DI Commodore (SV6, Calais) - you will get murdered.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

But wait till you drag a 3.6 DI Commodore (SV6, Calais) - you will get murdered.

Most likely, but how much of that is due to the 6sp auto. The 4sp is simply too high in first gear to compete. INterestingly, recent test show that FG Falcons are having no prob staying with if not surpassing 3.6 commodores right up to 60km/h....so torque still talks the talk. Of cours the superior top end power of the 3.6 SIDI is a great help once moving.

Still, these tests were all holden launch cars....we've seen too much funny business from holden to take them as gospel just yet. The 'improvement' in the holden drivetrain has been noticeble (esp 3.6 guise) but i'd say the new slushbox has as much to do with that as the engine....

[jpd80]

I wonder whether the 3.0 will get the hook as a failed experiment.......

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Most likely, but how much of that is due to the 6sp auto. The 4sp is simply too high in first gear to compete. INterestingly, recent test show that FG Falcons are having no prob staying with if not surpassing 3.6 commodores right up to 60km/h....so torque still talks the talk. Of cours the superior top end power of the 3.6 SIDI is a great help once moving.

Still, these tests were all holden launch cars....we've seen too much funny business from holden to take them as gospel just yet. The 'improvement' in the holden drivetrain has been noticeble (esp 3.6 guise) but i'd say the new slushbox has as much to do with that as the engine....

I've driven two 3.6 SIDI's now and they are a good engine, but I've never got them to break traction off the line (DSC was on, but it never lit up, I guess it's a torque thing), however as you said, once they get going they are very competitive - they feel quite solid, never seem to be searching for more torque like alloytec did. That being said, they don't feel like they have any more go than an FG 6. Off the line I'm confident a ZF FG six would be the victor.

But the base 3.0L SIDI will not come close to Ecoboost 4cyl by the sounds of things, let alone any 3.5-4.0L six.

[fromBAonwards]

i think that the 4L I6 will still beat the Ecoboost 4 cylinder, but the Ecoboost will show its pride in another age, another era, new inventions of a 4 cylinder emulating an I6.

I think that its good to have a BASELINE which to use and follow, and trying to create something from SMALLER that uses less energy and perform as something of yesterday, or that BASELINE eg: FG I6 XT but from a 4 cylinder.

I am a lover of 6 cylinder Falcons, and i am in love with 4L motors so don't know what is gona happen in the mean while with technology.
Speaking of SIDI DIDID SSISISI ISISIS V6 crapatology , i think that still a cheap TAXI BA on GAS is quicker, faster than a petrol powered 3.0L V6 and matches the 3.6 SIDI mainly for the fact that you can pick it up for $1000 and still get 98% of 3.6L SIDI performance for 40x less.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by fromBAonwards

Speaking of SIDI DIDID SSISISI ISISIS V6 crapatology , i think that still a cheap TAXI BA on GAS is quicker, faster than a petrol powered 3.0L V6 and matches the 3.6 SIDI mainly for the fact that you can pick it up for $1000 and still get 98% of 3.6L SIDI performance for 40x less.

The 3.0l is not meant to be fast...

The rest of your post is garbage.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

But wait till you drag a 3.6 DI Commodore (SV6, Calais) - you will get murdered.

Yep, very close to the FG's, VE has beaten the FG in a few magazines. They are also downtuned from 230kw/380nm to 210kw/350nm, and the 3.6l sidi in the states are getting another 17kw ontop of that just from a tune. I would be lucky to pickup 10kw in my fg lol.

I call bs at anyone in the 3.0l trying to drag you in the Ba anyway lol, people who want to race get a V8 or the very least the 3.6l if going holden.

I think holden should have put the 3.6l as the base model, and brought out an FI to compete with xr6t. The camaro's are getting a TTV6 that puts out 317kw. 3.0l is abit of fail, any, abit off topic now.

Would anyone here seriously consider a 4 cylinder falcon?? I know I would much rather stick with the tested 4.0l.

[Fev]

I'm still tingling at the anticipation of getting my hands on an Eco boost 4 banger turbo Good to hear the larger engines are also surpassing expectations. Once these engines hit our shores there's going to be a boom in Ford sales as Ford wallops the competition with more engines set to become legends

[fromBAonwards]

a standard $1000 ex Taxi BA will give any direct injected 3.6L piece of rubbish a run for its money.

The 4.0L DOHC VCT 182kW/380Nm will do anywhere 97-98% of the performance of a 3.6 SIDI , yet is older technology 8+ years now and it will cost you $1000 for a whole car.

It might have 450000k on clock, versus say a demo 3.6L SIDI say 5000-10000k, but will still give it a rubbbb and could very easily show its teeth.

After all I6 is far superior than a V6, and has a lot more tractable horsepower or in simple words its a TORQUE generator!

If you work it out, an ex Taxi BA for $1000-1500 used, or a $45000 rubbish performer , but i have to admit a nice looking machine the VE Calais or SV6. But engine wise I'd go for that old TAXI.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by kezzer

Yep, very close to the FG's, VE has beaten the FG in a few magazines. They are also downtuned from 230kw/380nm to 210kw/350nm, and the 3.6l sidi in the states are getting another 17kw ontop of that just from a tune. I would be lucky to pickup 10kw in my fg lol.

I call bs at anyone in the 3.0l trying to drag you in the Ba anyway lol, people who want to race get a V8 or the very least the 3.6l if going holden.

I think holden should have put the 3.6l as the base model, and brought out an FI to compete with xr6t. The camaro's are getting a TTV6 that puts out 317kw. 3.0l is abit of fail, any, abit off topic now.

Would anyone here seriously consider a 4 cylinder falcon?? I know I would much rather stick with the tested 4.0l.

The SIDI 3.6 is 'detuned' largely because holden wanted to get the torque much lower in a flatter torque curvve. This is why the peak torque is down, and hence why peak power has gone down with it (albeit teh peak power is also marketing related....) However, your suggestion that the FG can't make the 230kw is wrong. For example, you note that on a 'tune' the 3.6 picks up more, probably due to the detune. BUT, if you put 98 ron in your FG you can get to near 210kw....some 15kw more only by changing the juice you run it on.... With a retune and 98 ron you could get 220kw easy.....

And by then you'd be pulling nigh on 440nm!!!! So sure, the 3.6 has DI but even if you tuned a cadilac spec engine you would NEVER get over 400nm....it makes 370-380nm at 4700rpm or something... Fact is alloytec is not anywhere as good a base engine design as the 4.0I6, or for that matter the 3.5/3.7 duratec V6s niether. This is fact. DI is only there to paper up the holes and attempt to make the engine competitive.

I agree that the 3.6 SIDI is a much better engine overall then holden has had in the past, and i think i'd be happy to drive one (though due to the inferiority of the rest of the car i would't buy one...). But it ain't up to Ford's current 6 pot standards.....and will continue to struggle into the future when you take into account tech ford can and will employ in years to come (esp the 3.7 duratec....)

Getting back on topic, imagine an ecoboost DI 3.7 (if they ever build it) now the 3.5 eB is impressive enough, if they EB the 3.7 it will go close to being a straight replacement for the 4.0I6T, at least in XR6T spec....

[fromBAonwards]

the peak torque is down, yes 350Nm , but a stock standard BA XT still makes anywhere between 15-25 Nm more in that range.

Remember 4.0L XT Falcons BA onwards are all detuned too, meaning that they easily make over 400-420Nm , but detuned to protect the 4 speed auto.

[fromBAonwards]

if you download a powerchip brochure of say a BA XT, you will see how much torque that thing makes at just 1000rpm or 1500rpm or 2000rpm, check it out and you will find out who's the king of torque.
The only thing is BA-FG have drive by wire, so if you were to totally reprogram the whole ECU the BA onwards would smoke the rear end instantaneously. Try doing it in stock form and once you press the brake the engine automatically cuts power and torque to protect the gearbox and engine.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by fromBAonwards

a standard $1000 ex Taxi BA will give any direct injected 3.6L piece of rubbish a run for its money.

The 4.0L DOHC VCT 182kW/380Nm will do anywhere 97-98% of the performance of a 3.6 SIDI , yet is older technology 8+ years now and it will cost you $1000 for a whole car.

It might have 450000k on clock, versus say a demo 3.6L SIDI say 5000-10000k, but will still give it a rubbbb and could very easily show its teeth.

After all I6 is far superior than a V6, and has a lot more tractable horsepower or in simple words its a TORQUE generator!

If you work it out, an ex Taxi BA for $1000-1500 used, or a $45000 rubbish performer , but i have to admit a nice looking machine the VE Calais or SV6. But engine wise I'd go for that old TAXI.

You keep buying crapped out ex taxis into the next decade, I think you will find the motoring public want new cars, with new warranties when they buy their next car.

Therefore I don't think Ford are basing their vehicle manufacture and design policy on crapped out taxis that deliver 95% of the performance of the competitors latest offering.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by fromBAonwards

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.....

No one is talking about BA XT's nor taxi's for that fact.
How about trying to keep it on topic - that topic is the V6 Eco Boost and its comparision (what Holden has).

No one really cares if you can go get a POS taxi for $1000 - no one cares because it has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by davway

No one is talking about BA XT's nor taxi's for that fact.
How about trying to keep it on topic - that topic is the V6 Eco Boost and its comparision (what Holden has).

No one really cares if you can go get a POS taxi for $1000 - no one cares because it has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

Well said!

[fromBAonwards]

Originally Posted by davway

No one is talking about BA XT's nor taxi's for that fact.
How about trying to keep it on topic - that topic is the V6 Eco Boost and its comparision (what Holden has).

No one really cares if you can go get a POS taxi for $1000 - no one cares because it has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

dude i know that its off topic, but we need a BASELINE here to compare them to. Don't you know what the BASELINE is? something to compare too and see if we can improve, at least work out the math and see the differences.
The SIDI 3.6 might make 350Nm at 2900rpm, but the standard BA XT 4.0 makes over 375Nm at 2900rpm;) try picking on others , perhaps read clearer and see who's off the topic;)

[fromBAonwards]

check this out for the standard BA 4.0L DOHC

[geckoGT]

way, quoting manufacturer claims from a tuning device that everyone here knows is crap, compelling evidence.

Considering the design brief for ecoboost is good performance with superior fuel economy and emission levels that comply with euro4 and beyond. You have one element covered, where is your evidence for the others?

[fromBAonwards]

you mean evidence for others, such as eco boost??
Evidence for others is simple, do you mean SIDI 3.6 Commodore V6? , if they claim that it makes 350Nm at 2900rpm , still well below stock 4.0L I6, The stock I6 as a comparison BASELINE has more torque and exceeds it beyond 350Nm at 2900rpm and is a car from 2002.
Okay it has around 400cc more, but still it has more torque.
Speaking of eco boost, i have no data on what it makes at low rpm, but what ever it is , it might still be less than current and contemporary I6 at what ever RPM they specify.

I can not find the table for a SIDI 3.6L since it does not exist, so i can't tell you, other than that the 4.0L still makes more torque across the range.