GM's answer to Coyote

[vztrt]

GM’s Coyote hunter

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577130015269B

GM's new high-tech direct-injection V8 set to supersede Gen IV used in Commodore

28 April 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

GENERAL Motors has foreshadowed a new-generation direct-injection V8 that will take the fight up to Ford’s new 5.0-litre Coyote V8 that is expected to arrive in supercharged form in the Falcon XR8 from late this year.

Production plans for General Motors’ new, more fuel-efficient and cleaner Generation V V8 ‘family’ – to replace the current Gen IV pushrod V8 introduced in 6.0-litre form into Commodore in 2006 and upgraded with displacement on demand a little more than a year ago – were announced overnight by GM in the United States where the company said it would spend $US890 million ($A970m) tooling up for the new engine.

While the timing of the new engine remains secret, along with specific capacities, fuel consumption and power and torque figures, GM says the new small-block V8 will have “unprecedented fuel efficiency through direct injection and an all-new advanced combustion system design”.

“The new engine family will rely exclusively on aluminum engine blocks, which are lighter and contribute to the improved fuel efficiency,” GM said in a statement released in Detroit.

“In addition to being E85 ethanol capable, these engines are being designed with the capability to meet increasingly stringent criteria emissions standards expected throughout this decade.”

Although Holden’s official line is that it has no plans to change the Gen IV V8 powertrain in the Commodore, insiders point to the company’s tradition of following GM advances, including displacement on demand and E85 ethanol capability.

The North American-made engine could be shipped to Australia to be bolted into Holden’s Commodore and Statesman/Caprice, as well as export models including the Chevrolet Caprice Police Pursuit Vehicle (PPV) for the US and the Chev Caprice and Lumina for the Middle East.

The Caprice PPV will need to have the latest engine when it comes on stream to bring it in line with other GM products offered in the US, and it seems logical for Holden to adopt it for Commodore and Statesman/Caprice at the same time.

The Gen V engine has been designed to help GM meet new, stricter fuel economy measures in the US, as well as tougher emissions rules around the world, including Australia.

Here, new Euro 4 emissions standards are set to kill Ford’s 5.4-litre Boss V8 in Australia when they come into force on July 1, with Ford looking to its new Coyote 5.0-litre V8 that made its debut in the latest Mustang to get back into the V8 game with its XR8 and Ford Performance Vehicles (FPV) range.

As GoAuto reported exclusively recently, Ford Australia has developed a supercharged version of the Coyote engine, developing 315kW at 6500rpm, for introduction into the Falcon XR8 to maintain a ‘bent eight’ presence against Holden’s Commodore SS and SS-V.

In FPV GT form, the engine is expected to pump out about 335kW and 600Nm of torque.

The 260kW/510Nm Gen IV Holden V8 is Euro 3 compliant, and can be modified to meet Euro 4 beyond the July deadline to continue production until the Gen V V8 arrives at some point in the future.

With fuel economy improvement being central to the new GM engine, it will be interesting to see if GM at last drops its time-honoured push-rod, two-valve design that has delivered legendary low-end grunt for decades or, like Ford, joins the modern world with an overhead cam, 32-valve layout.

GM dispensed with push rods and rocker valves on its ‘High Feature’ Alloytec V6 that was introduced on the VZ Commodore in 2006. That engine was upgraded with direct injection and other improvements in the Spark Injection Direct Injection (SIDI) VE Commodore last year.

That V6 is in for a further upgrade this year when Holden introduces an E85 ethanol-capable version of Commodore.

Official fuel test figures for Holden’s Gen IV V8 put its combined-cycle consumption at 12.6 litres per 100km, thanks to GM's ‘active fuel management’ displacement on demand system introduced early last year in line with Australian production of the ill-fated Pontiac G8 in Australia. That system improved consumption by 1.3L/100km over the first iteration of the Gen IV V8.

But the new GM V8 will have to herald even greater fuel savings, not just to meet new official targets but to match Ford’s Coyote V8, which is said to achieve 9.0L/100km in 2011 manual Mustang form.

There is every likelihood that, like Ford, GM will cut the capacity of its engine in its various interations to help it meet its environmental objectives, relying instead on high-tech solutions including direct injection, which the Ford engine does not have.

Officially, Holden is keeping mum about plans for the new engine, as it needs to keep selling the Gen IV for some time.

Holden senior manager product communications Jonathan Rose told GoAuto in a statement: “There is no plan to change the Gen IV V8 powertrain in the current Commodore range.

“We continue to receive great feedback from our V8 customers about the performance of the engine.

“Since the introduction of active fuel management, the engine has been able to deliver the best of both worlds to performance enthusiasts – improved fuel efficiency with the power they want from a V8.”

However, GoAuto believes Holden is likely to take the new engine at the first available opportunity once it goes into production at two plants in North America – St Catherines in Canada and Tonawanda, New York State.

Those plants, and three of GM’s casting and component factories, will share the $890 million budgeted for new tooling and other improvements in readiness for the latest V8.

Announcing the plan, former GM Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss – now president of GM North America – said the project was part of GM’s investment in plants and jobs “and making progress toward our vision of designing, building and selling the world’s best vehicles”.

“These latest investments show our commitment to improving fuel economy for buyers of every GM car, truck and crossover and giving them the best possible driving and ownership experience,” he said.

It is unclear if a variant of the Gen V V8 will also replace the Chev Corvette-sourced 6.2-litre LS3 engine currently employed by Holden Special Vehicles.

This engine belts out up to 325kW in the HSV GTS, and is said to be already Euro 4 compliant.

[burnz]

not exactly true, yes the plant upgrade's for future engine development RE 5+ yrears before you see anything.

in the short term 5.3Ltr DI cam in block VVT 2valve car. (not northstar)
6.2Ltr DI OHC VVT 3valve for light trucks.

[vztrt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/27/g...all-block-v8s/

GM investing $890M in next-gen small block V8s

by Jeremy Korzeniewski (RSS feed) on Apr 27th 2010 at 1:29PM

Ah yes, the classic small block Chevy. No other engine in history carries as much nostalgia and General Motors looks poised to push its mouse motor well into the future by adding new technologies designed to clean up the mill's emissions and improve fuel mileage. Expect these engines to show up in applications from sportscars like the Camaro and Corvette to pickup trucks and SUVs.

According to GM, all of its next-generation small block V8s will use aluminum engine blocks in addition to being E85 compatible. We can also expect to see direct injection added to the small block's repertoire for improved efficiency and power production. Finally, the combustion chambers will see a redesign that will promote fuel efficiency.

Naturally, an update to an existing engine line requires a suitable investment, and this one is no different. GM will be investing nearly $900 million and will add or retain more than 1,600 jobs in Tonawanda, NY; St. Catherines, Ontario; Defiance, Ohio; Bedford, Indiana and Bay City, Michigan.

[CAMS290]

Taken from the boys over at LS1.com
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...estment-91366/

A very interesting read, whether to believe if there is any credible information I guess is another thing, but interesting nonetheless.

[GTP-03]

ifs buts and maybes, typical GM talk

[Falc'man]

One of the possible configurations...

Originally Posted by Ramair-WS6

Think of two cams stacked vertically in the V of the engine

[Chilliman]

I still believe that GEN V is a cam-in-block (single) valve push-rod design with direct injection.

The motor will supposedly be based on the 5.5Litre unit that debuted at the Sebring 12hour in March underneath the bonnet of the Corvette CR.6

While that engine was a full 'race' engine, it still has the familiar Chevy small-block architecture with DI. The production version won't be with us until 2012 - not sure in what capacity it will be offered though.

[HSE2]

Threads merged and moved. Its not really coyote related.

[phillyc]

I'll believe it when I see it in a couple of more years. They've talked about DI, UltraV8, Gen5 for years already.

It's good to see them investing the tax dollar on updating the V8 though! With Ford's Coyote, GM will need to try to catch up.

[barra265t]

GM should call the new motor RoadRunner V8 ^^

[Iggypoppin']

I can't see how this is a direct rival for the coyote, as the engine probably won't be ready for, what, 5 years? Coyote will have changed by then you'd expect...
I knew, eventually, GM would realize pushrods aren't always going to cut it..

[1LOUDXFUTE]

good news

that dual cam variant looks interesting!

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

One of the possible configurations...

Wheels or Motor ran CGI's like that in 2002-2004, IIRC it was expected to debut in the Gen4 but that obviously never happened.

How long to they plan on continuing the GenX family? Surely at some point will come the need to tear up the whole architecture

[jpd80]

GM might be right in their determinations that all they have to do is change combustion chamber, add DI and VCT to their small block, all of that may be true. I just get the feeling that they are designing an engine for now, not 2016 to 2020 fuel economy targets.

This is why I think Ford is in front of the curve with the 6.2 Boss and 5.0 Coyote, Ford knows that
ultimately smaller engines and DI turbocharging will replace their large V8s but they need a transition for
the technology glide path and that will be the blown Coyote and Duratec 35......

Ford are already way in front of GM, they know where they are going after Coyote....

[ZA-289]

Gee they love pushrods dont they!

[dannyxm]

Although interesting, i believe it when i see it.

GM news usually consists of:

1. Yes we will do it! Its Great
2. HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT US! (Page 1 in wheels)
3. Yeah, actually we will do this, but with a slight variation.
4. No we will go back to the original idea, its great!
5. No, we wont do it at all........... (page 62 in wheels)

[Wally]

@ ZA-289 = So do the guys with Cobra Jet 352 and 428 Mustangs

[Wally]

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zgt4m9xQtks

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Wheels or Motor ran CGI's like that in 2002-2004, IIRC it was expected to debut in the Gen4 but that obviously never happened.

How long to they plan on continuing the GenX family? Surely at some point will come the need to tear up the whole architecture

Yeah thats correct. Im pretty sure it was wheels speculating the dual cam push rod V8 back in 2002 for Gen 4.

[tapeworm]

Originally Posted by danny351

Although interesting, i believe it when i see it.

GM news usually consists of:

1. Yes we will do it! Its Great
2. HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT US! (Page 1 in wheels)
3. Yeah, actually we will do this, but with a slight variation.
4. No we will go back to the original idea, its great!
5. No, we wont do it at all........... (page 62 in wheels)

ha, pure gold

Also, has anyone noticed that 'Direct Injection to GM is like Watts Link is to Neil Crompton. It's mentioned at every opportunity.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Wally

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zgt4m9xQtks

good find Wally, competition is good , interesting times ahead.

[a_misfit]

Holden’s Commodore and Statesman/Caprice, as well as export models including the Chevrolet Caprice Police Pursuit Vehicle (PPV) for the US

spoken like it's a done deal...did I miss that decision?

[Luke Plaizier]

Oh, I thought there was something of substance here for GMH. But it's just speculation.

Nothing to see here, move along.


Lukeyson

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Oh, I thought there was something of substance here for GMH. But it's just speculation.

Nothing to see here, move along.


Lukeyson

Seems to be a trademark of GoAuto's quality of articles lately. Which is weird considering they used to be one of the most reliable and informative publications out there.

[jpd80]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't GM just recently end the big block production at Tonawanda?
What they're calling the second engine line is in fact the new engine line.

[Falcman0o7]

Ford 5.0
holden 5.0
ford 5.0
holden 5.7
ford 5.4
holden 6.0
ford 5.0
holden 6.2
ford 5.0
holden 6.5
ford 5.0
holden 7.0
ford 5.0
holden 8.0
ford 5.0
holden 10.0
ford 5.0
holden TANK ENGINE...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't GM just recently end the big block production at Tonawanda?
What they're calling the second engine line is in fact the new engine line.

L88 in 1978 i think was the last of the BB for car
again not shure if it was flint michigan or st louis missouri
leaning towards st louis because of alloy heads that michigan was not equipped.

2009 is for trucks 8.1ltr

[crYnOid]

More from gminsidenews:

The engine photo was of the current LS9 block, the Gen V block will have the camshaft positioned higher in the block, a raised cam. A higher position cam in the block alllows greater flexibility in pushrod positioning and because the pushrods are shorter the are stiffer. Think R07 NASCAR as the inspiration. The Cam in the Gen V block will most likeky be even higher in the block than the R07, NASCAR has specific rules as to the height of the cam above the center line of the crankshaft, that do not apply to production engines. Due to DI being planned for the engine the cumbustion chambers will have to be changed from the current design. Again loock at the R07 heads cumbustion chambers and ports and you can see there is plenty of room for the (direct) injector to be on the intake side of the head centers between the two valves and very close to the center of the combustion chamber and that the rocker arms are well clear of the injector also. The earlier Wards Auto article talked about the heads having revised ports to provide clearence for the SIDI injector.

VVT is currently used on the LS series motors and will be used on the Gen V version of the motor. Currently the VVT system does not provide for independent variable timing om both the intake and the exhaust valves. However going to concentric, cam in cam, technology would all accomplish dual independent variable valve timing with no significant changes to the block. It is likely that both types of VVT will be used Gen V blocks, the current systems used on lower price point vehicles and the "cam in cam" system on preimum price point vehicles and in performance engines. The same may be true with head design, two valve heads at lower price points and three valve heads on preimum pricepoint and performance vehicles.

As to engine size a 5.2, a 5.5 and a 6.2. the 5.0 is a 3.87 bore and a 3.26 stroke (almost a return of the 307 that Chevy produced some 25 years ago) a 5.5 is the bore of the current LS9 and the 3.26 stroke of the 4.8 truck motor. The parts commonality with current motors reduces costs. Utilizing two blocks and two cranks gives three displacements to cover the entire displacement range. Add in two differnet head types, 2 and three valve designs, and two different VVT systems, AFM, SVIS (Stationary Vehicle Idle Stop) and you can get a very wide variety of engines that cover a large price point range from basic work truck to preimum vehicles like Cadillac sedans and the Corvette with advanced features that favor performance, economy, and emissions reduction.

This would provide a cost effective way to meet the needs for a powerplant family that has favroable packaging and is able to provide normally aspirated power levels of HP from 65 to 80+per litre competive withe DOHC designs.

I left the spelling mistakes in :P

Rumour has it have the engine is also designed to accept DOHC heads on the same block.

What GM should have (with the pushrod motor at least) is a very under square engine with very short pushrods. Sounds like they are designed to rev! Not to mention the design is partially based on GM's nascar engine.

Dual Cam In Block is apparently unlikely but look at where the top cam is located on the DCIB pic above for an idea if the cam position. A "cam in cam" setup for VVT operations essentially makes a DCIB design redundant as GM only requires one block design for single cam VVT & "Cam in Cam" VVT.

[HSE2]

Fascinating

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Seems to be a trademark of GoAuto's quality of articles lately. Which is weird considering they used to be one of the most reliable and informative publications out there.

Yes....i have noticed this. I still think they are a cut above the rest of the local online motoring rags. BUT its not so much that they report false info (though some errors have occured) but mostly its too many stories that have very little interesting/relevant info, esp with the local products not having much new stuff launching at the moment (next up is new terri next year....).

So to compete with the 'trollop' pedaling competitors Goauto has been puting out some pretty lame articles with not much point to them. Its just an attempt to keep up with the jones'. I can recall when people like ray martin did a current affair....everyone said he was a hack, not a real journalist. Then Today Tonight went so much lower and ACA followed and now given the choice, you'd probably want Ray back. At least SOME of his stories were newsworthy.... Same thing has happened to morning TV...won't find any real 'news' issues their niether....just the best way to deal with snotty neighbours, or eat gluten free, or wash your cat.....

Some people think the car business is betraying its heritage with enviro cars, hybrid, electric etc. But its nothing on journalism. There ain't much proper journalism left IMO.

Getting back on topic, i think its great GM are investing in a new V8 because its becoming pretty obvious the current lineup is getting a bit long in the tootch. Its a good motor but competitors are overtaking it and emissions regs will wipe it out in a few years. Its the latter i suspect that is making GM move in this direction. Interesting about the DI bit. Although Coyote is DI design protected Ford has said there is little gain in going this route at this stage. I wonder how GM will apply the DI tech RE meeting emissions standards but also making more power. Its good tech but needs to be carefully applied.....i hope they focus on a good base design first before putting all their faith in DI is all....