Who will buy an electric car when they are available?

[Stagg]

Ok so half the people on this thread know that I'm really into the whole sustainable living idea, and I for one know that as soon as I can I'm financing an electric car.

recently the Tesla model S was released in America, and I found it to be practical, attractive, actually ahs a decent range, and isn't bad on performance. Have a look:









Apparently the price is going to be anywhere from US $50k to about US $75K depending on how many batteries and which package etc.

I would sure as anything buy one for $50k if they are available in Australia any time soon. Would any one else be sold on the idea of electric cars if they were all practical?

[dylby1]

No. I wont

[HULK EF]

It' a lot of coin to cough up to be free of petrol stations..

any commo or falcon especialy on LPG would take along tim to get anywhere near the total outlay in ownership of this $50G + model.

+add alot to the total if those are the "American price's"..

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

It' a lot of coin to cough up to be free of petrol stations..

any commo or falcon especialy on LPG would take along tim to get anywhere near the total outlay in ownership of this $50G + model.

+add alot to the total if those are the "American price's"..

It seems to me like for starters it would be in the same bracket as luxury cars, namely Jaguar etc.

There is also the Nissan Leaf:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/152116/n...ing-announced/

Not as fancy, although currently being trialed in Melbourne, seen a few of the blue ones passing on the tram

[chevypower]

I would like a Fisker Karma, but I can't afford one. I prefer it to the equivalents (Panamera, Quattroporte, Rapide).

I would buy an electric car when:
1. I have the money.
2. They charge within a few minutes.
3. They have good range.
4. They have uncompromised performance.

[2011G6E]

I will, given a few provisions...
* It must not cost any extra over a "normal" car.
* It must seat five adults with decent room.
* It has to have a minimum range of 500km.
* It has to recharge from a normal household power point at home in three or four hours.
* It has to refill at a "filling station" in ten minutes or less.
* They have to guarantee that the batteries will last at least ten years.
* It can sit on 110kph for hours with a full load on board in typical central Queensland summer heat reliably. With air con going.

Too many of these things are spruiked as being the latest and greatest solution to everything...but when you start asking a few hard questions, they say something like "Well they're not really targeted at country people".
Too bad...you can't make a car for a limited city-based market and expect it to sell in big numbers, not everyone lives in the city, and if it's "really only meant for the city", then it defeats the environmental purpose because you have to then buy a second car when you want to go on trips.

A few awkward questions also spring up about "filling them up"...who pays for the chain of stations that will have to be built across the nation every couple of hundred kilometers? Who pays for the upgrades to the power network to cope with the extra demand and also the extra transmission lines to the various stations?

You also have to ignore a few uncomfortable things going on in the background...the filthy process of mining rare earth minerals and shipping them around the world to process into raw materials for the vehicles, the "tailpipe exhaust shifting", where you are simply shifting the exhaust from your tailpipe to a coal fired power station somewhere else...

I'm not saying electric-only cars won't become more common...but there's quite a few large and expensive hurdles to overcome before they become truly useful for everyone except a few trendy people in the big cities...

[kaniSS]

I will only buy one if;

1 - They charge up to FULL real quick.
2 - 1 full charge can take me further than 400km at least.
3 - If they go hard and sound nice.
4- If the design is appealing and not like a stupid Prius.
5 - If the costs are reasonable and I am not gouged a premium because it electric.
6 - and finally when they stop calling them stupid names....


I don't see why not.

[2011G6E]

I think Chevypower said it all with point four in his little list...

4. They have uncompromised performance.

That covers everything that we've brought up here..."uncompromised performance" can mean everything from seating to range to driving performance to convenience to costs and so-on when compared with a normal car...it covers the lot...


I could also add "Guaranteed buyback by the company when the batteries are near the end of their life if you want to sell it"...because face it, the thing will be worth bugger all on the second hand market if the potential buyers know the batteries are nearing the end of their life...no one wants that cost not long after buying what is an expensive car anyway...

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I'm not saying electric-only cars won't become more common...but there's quite a few large and expensive hurdles to overcome before they become truly useful for everyone except a few trendy people in the big cities...

Undoubtedly agree.

Essentially a huge proportion of Australia's infratructure is going to have to change inevitably, including renewable energy as well as electric cars.

EV companies are still in their baby stage, it will pick up eventually.

I just don't see the point in Hybrid cars, they use a small petrol motor to power an electric motor, although they still rely on petrol which defeats the purpose of being green. EV's can of course be powered by grid power, although there is the option of going solar as well to power them.

What some companies in the US are doing is selling a package, so you buy an EV with a PV system big enough to power the car for what you need to do for your weekly driving.

[demood]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

A few awkward questions also spring up about "filling them up"...who pays for the chain of stations that will have to be built across the nation every couple of hundred kilometers? Who pays for the upgrades to the power network to cope with the extra demand and also the extra transmission lines to the various stations?

You also have to ignore a few uncomfortable things going on in the background...the filthy process of mining rare earth minerals and shipping them around the world to process into raw materials for the vehicles, the "tailpipe exhaust shifting", where you are simply shifting the exhaust from your tailpipe to a coal fired power station somewhere else...

I'm not saying electric-only cars won't become more common...but there's quite a few large and expensive hurdles to overcome before they become truly useful for everyone except a few trendy people in the big cities...

Totally agree, the only way we'll be able to generate enough power for these vehicles to become mainstream is by....

Putting in a couple of Nuclear Power stations!!

[Bad Bird]

But then you're going to get the people who hear the word 'nuclear' and get into an irrational, non-fact-based panic...

[pottery beige]

hippies.....

[dimka100]

Any petrol car sold out there is far more efficient at generating power than a coal power station! so while the marketing material is talking about electric vehicles being green, when power by coal power they are actually worse than 7ltr V8s from the 60s ...

Until the world switches over to proper green power such as nuclear (e.g. France) such cars are a mere marketing spin for idiots.

In Australia, with one of the worlds dirties methods of generating electricity, buying such a car could only mean two things:
1. You are a total ignorant idiot.
2. You are a total ignorant idiot who wants to be seen as a green hipy.

[noosacuda]

My first and only electric car will be a mobility scooter! I wont need one for another 30+ years and that's about the same time a reliable,quick charging, respectable looking and affordable electric car will be available to the public.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

My first and only electric car will be a mobility scooter! I wont need one for another 30+ years and that's about the same time a reliable,quick charging, respectable looking and affordable electric car will be available to the public.

...and even when it comes time for a mobility scooter, I've got a worked mid-sixties 125cc Vespa engine and 4-speed transmission unit sitting on a stand in the corner of my shed...that should fit nicely...fastest granddad on the block!

[dylby1]

Its also worth mentioning that the damage building a prius does to the environment by the time the batteries are made and shipped, and all the steel is mined and shipped etc etc. actually does more damage than a land rover would in its entire expected operating life

ill try to find the story i read that in for reference

EDIT: FOUND IT. Turns out its a hummer, not a land rover

PRIUS OUTDOES HUMMER IN ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE

The Toyota Prius, the flagship car for the environmentally conscious, is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America, and takes more combined energy to produce than a Hummer, says the Recorder.

Consider:
The nickel contained in the Prius' battery is mined and smelted at a plant in Ontario that has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers.
Dubbed the Superstack, the factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.
Acid rain around the area was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside, according to Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin.
After leaving the plant, the nickel travels to Europe, China, Japan and United States, a hardly environmentally sound round the world trip for a single battery.

But that isn't even the worst part, says the Record. According to a study by CNW Marketing, the total combined energy to produce a Prius (consisting of electrical, fuel, transportation, materials and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime), is greater than what it takes to produce a Hummer:
The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles -- the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles.
That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use almost 50 percent less combined energy doing it.

Source: Chris Demorro, "Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage," The Recorder, March 7, 2007.

[klawsterfobik]

If I could generate the electricity myself, ie. Solar I can't see why it wouldn't be a viable option me. As long as it wasn't super expensive, there would be nothing stopping me. I currently travel less than 50kms per day and the car sits in the drive way from 4:30pm until about 6:30am, on weekends most around trips that I do are under 200k.

I think the main thing with a Prius and alike is that the technology in them is relatively new for that application. They're not as effiecient to run, nor environmentally friendly to produce as a combustion engine powered car. I'm sure its all time though, the first "cars" were terribly inefficient means of transport. If it fit the bill the same as a petrol powered car, I'd probably go for the electric.

[Franco Cozzo]

All its power and torque the moment the electric motor starts spinning? Hell yeah, I'd buy that.

But not until you get something decent for $35K with a 500km minumum range, so maybe 10 years from now depending on how fast battery/capacitor technology advances and the take-up of electric cars.

[1TUFFUTE]

i like the cool tech ford developed for the electric focus they sell...it has its own cooling system for the batteries which lengthens the batteries life by 1million times haha. But seriously its good tech because heat is the biggest killer for electric car batteries....good thinking ford

[z80]

I would definitely buy it....in a heartbeat at $50k

No...I would probably buy two or more of them.

(a) it has a decent range
(b) I have 11kw of solar panels that could charge it in under 3 hours FREE
(d) It has outstanding performance and range.

Unfortunately it will be around $200k by the time it hits the shores in Aus.

[mik]

the electric car has it`s good points, but too many bad points, even if it was way cheaper i`d still buy a real car.

[Craney]

That is a beautiful car... all it needs is a five litre windsor.

[DJR-351]

Not in this lifetime......

[Polyal]

For a daily if I lived in a CBD and did a ~100km round trip...yeap Id do the maths on running costs and ownership and if it showed a saving id be all over it.

I dont understand peoples fear over these cars. Things like this will help us have our toys on the weekend.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Stagg1991

Ok so half the people on this thread know that I'm really into the whole sustainable living idea, and I for one know that as soon as I can I'm financing an electric car.

The thread falls on your first sentence. If you really believe this you should be using public transport! I know, town planning and distances in Australia have encouraged car-dependency. The distances mitigate against electric cars which are OK for smaller cities not ones that are 60-70 km across and with long distances between towns beyond that.

A couple of years ago my family and I were living in Czech Republic for a few months and moving around there and Austria and Germany. We got everywhere and did everything entirely using public transport and without the need for a car once. That's sustainable living. But it's a different world and not Australia and the electric car is not a solution for Australia.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The thread falls on your first sentence. If you really believe this you should be using public transport! I know, town planning and distances in Australia have encouraged car-dependency. The distances mitigate against electric cars which are OK for smaller cities not ones that are 60-70 km across and with long distances between towns beyond that.

I do use public transport, I cut my driving down to about 20km a week

Otherwise on weekends I walk everywhere, I can't bring myself to buy a bike, mainly becaue of the rage they cause me when I do drive

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Polyal

For a daily if I lived in a CBD and did a ~100km round trip...yeap Id do the maths on running costs and ownership and if it showed a saving id be all over it.

I dont understand peoples fear over these cars. Things like this will help us have our toys on the weekend.

No real "fear"...just a healthy and well-founded skeptisism of something that is supposedly the solution for everyone...until you start to ask some difficult questions, and then they say "Well...maybe not everyone...", but that's the point...you can walk into any showroom in the country and walk out with any type of car you want, and you can drive it and successfully own it anywhere on this big continent. I've seen a tiny Smart car flogging down the highway way out here in the middle of nowhere, i've seen guys touring with thier families way out at Winton and Longreach with tiny little econo-boxes made in Korea, I've seen top end HSV Commodores and GT and FPV Falcons out here with alloy bullbars and covered in dust and mud up the sides...why bring a car into the market which is bloody expensive for what it offers, and which has so many limitations and is aimed at such a small market?

You never become successful and get the price down to competitive levels if you deliberately market it at a small audience who will be restricted to the cities...

[dylby1]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

No real "fear"...just a healthy and well-founded skeptisism of something that is supposedly the solution for everyone...until you start to ask some difficult questions, and then they say "Well...maybe not everyone...", but that's the point...you can walk into any showroom in the country and walk out with any type of car you want, and you can drive it and successfully own it anywhere on this big continent. I've seen a tiny Smart car flogging down the highway way out here in the middle of nowhere, i've seen guys touring with thier families way out at Winton and Longreach with tiny little econo-boxes made in Korea, I've seen top end HSV Commodores and GT and FPV Falcons out here with alloy bullbars and covered in dust and mud up the sides...why bring a car into the market which is bloody expensive for what it offers, and which has so many limitations and is aimed at such a small market?

You never become successful and get the price down to competitive levels if you deliberately market it at a small audience who will be restricted to the cities...

very well said mate.

the nearest decent sized town to me is 100km away. an electric car is not really a viable option for the 100km trip there, driving around town while im there, then coming home again.

especially with 3 adults and a 2 year old. plus shopping, plus stroller etc etc.

[bigdude1011]

I'll wait for hydrogen fuel cells. Combined with renewable (or at least not from brown coal) energy to create the hydrogen, it is a much more sustainable solution than EVs.

Short term, I'd go with CNG, as there's a large reserve here in Australia, I can fill the car from my house, and it's cleaner than anything made from crude oil.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont understand peoples fear over these cars. Things like this will help us have our toys on the weekend.

Who said anything about fear ?? i will just never have a use for one....